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Destroying 500NL Zoom, minichallenge Destroying 500NL Zoom, minichallenge

10-06-2012 , 05:21 PM
Oh and, good results. You seem like a solid player.
10-06-2012 , 07:37 PM
Don't think coaching in general is a waste of time/money, but in my case it definitely was and prob many people experienced the same. The skill difference between me and my coach was just too small (if there was a skill difference at all) I was playing mostly 200NL and he was a supposed MSNL crusher but he prolly wasnt, now 1.5 years later he's searching for a stake fwiw. When I get to the point I'm not improving anymore I def would look after an absolute topcoach. (not self proclamed, but a known nosebleed reg)
fwiw I slightly disagree with this: "EDIT I should add to above that every single nosebleed player attributes a ton of their success to the people THEY TALKED POKER WITH. " I think most nosebleed players rank playing and studying the game by yourself higher most of the time.


downswinging atm
-16 BI, - 10 EV BI
Sooo many setups, and people always having the 3-4 combo's they rep over and over again. Only 16 AA in the last 6.3k hands, which also sucks pretty hard vs all these people who don't fold

10-06-2012 , 11:38 PM
pot odds

    Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    Hero (BTN): $500 (100 bb)
    SB: $539.33 (107.9 bb)
    BB: $500 (100 bb)
    UTG: $520 (104 bb)
    MP: $1,080.25 (216.1 bb)
    CO: $503.60 (100.7 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with A K
    UTG raises to $15, MP calls $15, CO folds, Hero raises to $55, 2 folds, UTG raises to $100, MP calls $85, Hero raises to $500 and is all-in, UTG folds, MP calls $400

    Flop: ($1,107.50) 6 J T (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: ($1,107.50) T (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: ($1,107.50) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $1,107.50 pot ($2.80 rake)
    Final Board: 6 J T T J
    Hero showed A K and won $1,104.70 ($604.70 net)
    MP showed 4 7 and lost (-$500 net)
    10-07-2012 , 12:59 AM
    10-07-2012 , 01:09 AM
    Impressive. Subbed.
    10-07-2012 , 05:21 AM
    Yea i understand. I only had 2 coaches both only like 2 sessions and same thing. Not nearly a big gap in skill if any.

    As for my EDIT, I think thats obv a huge part, maybe the biggest part, but I don't ever seen an interview with someone who doesn't say that it was a big part. Not the most important, but definitely a big part.

    I just think discussing poker with competent people who will challenge your through process is just another filter. If you don't have those friends, a coach is the only person who can do that for you. In that matter, do you want to be a poker friend of mine than? :P

    EDIT lolpotodds
    10-07-2012 , 07:15 AM
    tiltttthand

    villain is horribad (easily top 5 worst Zoom regs) but bluffs with the better hand

      Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $1,023.06 (204.6 bb)
      SB: $1,128.17 (225.6 bb)
      BB: $287.37 (57.5 bb)
      UTG: $502.50 (100.5 bb)
      MP: $505 (101 bb)
      Hero (CO): $524.78 (105 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with A Q
      2 folds, Hero raises to $13.05, BTN raises to $45, 2 folds, Hero raises to $108, BTN calls $63

      Flop: ($223.50) 8 3 4 (2 players)
      Hero bets $71.20, BTN calls $71.20

      Turn: ($365.90) 7 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $100, Hero calls $100

      River: ($565.90) 9 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $517.50, Hero calls $245.58 and is all-in

      Spoiler:
      Results: $1,057.06 pot ($2.80 rake)
      Final Board: 8 3 4 7 9
      BTN showed K A and won $1,054.26 ($529.48 net)
      Hero mucked A Q and lost (-$524.78 net)
      10-07-2012 , 07:29 AM
      ^that hand makes 0 sense, would be interested to hear thought process/gameflow/stats on villain, looks as if the only hands you really beat are like AJ/KQ
      10-07-2012 , 07:31 AM
      why give up ott and c/c turn and river? wouldnt it be more optimal to just 3barrel instead of bluff catching?

      this is a question and you know much more than i do, id just like to understand why? metagame/balance etc?
      10-07-2012 , 09:51 PM
      Villain was 3betting 20%+ BTN vs CO and hardly folding to 4bets. And hardly folding post.

      If I triple he will pretty much fold all worse and call all better (don't expect the donk to fold a pair), and if I cbet c/c c/c I get value from all worse (AJ, AT, A3, A2, broadways) and only lose my whole stack vs his 9x+ (dont expect him to shove like 2nd pair for value)
      Sucks he was even too bad to 5b AKo

      Prob still too marginal but apart from c/f prob the best line.

      fwiw playing bad (spewing pre, stationing the river), running bad, playing a lot though, already 32k+ Zoom hands + some tourneys + some 1kNL in October eventhough I didnt play everyday.



      Wee rungooooot one time
        Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

        BTN: $1,177.46 (235.5 bb)
        SB: $500 (100 bb)
        BB: $1,114.53 (222.9 bb)
        Hero (UTG): $576.22 (115.2 bb)
        MP: $1,100.28 (220.1 bb)
        CO: $510 (102 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4 4
        Hero raises to $13.05, 4 folds, BB raises to $40, Hero calls $26.95

        Flop: ($82.50) 3 3 4 (2 players)
        BB bets $50, Hero calls $50

        Turn: ($182.50) Q (2 players)
        BB bets $120, Hero calls $120

        River: ($422.50) 5 (2 players)
        BB bets $904.53 and is all-in, Hero calls $366.22 and is all-in

        Spoiler:
        Results: $1,154.94 pot ($2.80 rake)
        Final Board: 3 3 4 Q 5
        BB showed Q Q and won $1,152.14 ($575.92 net)
        Hero showed 4 4 and lost (-$576.22 net)

        Not today
        10-07-2012 , 10:35 PM
        since villian is 3betting 20%+ otb and calling almost every 4bet, do you widen your 4betting value range or widen your 3bet calling range? should you betsize your 4bets bigger? what do you make of it when he just calls your raise otb instead of 3betting?
        10-07-2012 , 10:59 PM
        Wow just sick, you just crush
        10-08-2012 , 01:55 PM
        The AQ vs AK is ridiculous from villain's point of view. Do not understand his call pre or the turn + river bets.
        10-08-2012 , 06:05 PM
        Yeah 4bet bigger and wider (like 99+, AQ+) call a bit wider and tighten up opening range

        Running better atm!
          Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

          Hero (BTN): $589.70 (117.9 bb)
          SB: $1,589.39 (317.9 bb)
          BB: $1,293.61 (258.7 bb)
          UTG: $317.20 (63.4 bb)
          MP: $222.50 (44.5 bb)
          CO: $149.28 (29.9 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is BTN with 5 5
          UTG folds, MP raises to $10, CO folds, Hero calls $10, 2 folds

          Flop: ($27.50) 5 7 2 (2 players)
          MP checks, Hero bets $18.90, MP raises to $37.80, Hero raises to $579.70, MP calls $174.70 and is all-in

          Turn: ($452.50) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)
          River: ($452.50) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

          Spoiler:
          Results: $452.50 pot ($2.80 rake)
          Final Board: 5 7 2 J 9
          Hero showed 5 5 and won $0.00 (-$222.50 net)
          MP showed 7 7 and won $449.70 ($227.20 net)

          Only 44bb

          No Zoom next 9 days
          Going to Corsica and cant switch back and forth between .be and .fr
          10-13-2012 , 08:18 AM
          Have fun on holiday, looking forward to your new posts, works always motivating.
          10-13-2012 , 08:31 AM
          subbed on this one.
          10-13-2012 , 08:33 AM
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by LorenzoVMatterhorn
          tiltttthand

          villain is horribad (easily top 5 worst Zoom regs) but bluffs with the better hand

            Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

            BTN: $1,023.06 (204.6 bb)
            SB: $1,128.17 (225.6 bb)
            BB: $287.37 (57.5 bb)
            UTG: $502.50 (100.5 bb)
            MP: $505 (101 bb)
            Hero (CO): $524.78 (105 bb)

            Preflop: Hero is CO with A Q
            2 folds, Hero raises to $13.05, BTN raises to $45, 2 folds, Hero raises to $108, BTN calls $63

            Flop: ($223.50) 8 3 4 (2 players)
            Hero bets $71.20, BTN calls $71.20

            Turn: ($365.90) 7 (2 players)
            Hero checks, BTN bets $100, Hero calls $100

            River: ($565.90) 9 (2 players)
            Hero checks, BTN bets $517.50, Hero calls $245.58 and is all-in

            Spoiler:
            Results: $1,057.06 pot ($2.80 rake)
            Final Board: 8 3 4 7 9
            BTN showed K A and won $1,054.26 ($529.48 net)
            Hero mucked A Q and lost (-$524.78 net)
            Very nice play, do you have a lot of regs that flat 4bets IP at 500NL? Any regs that do it properly (like balancing it with AA)?
            10-13-2012 , 08:35 AM
            wow crazy graph I like! Subbed
            10-22-2012 , 10:14 AM
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Mattgrindin'
            Very nice play, do you have a lot of regs that flat 4bets IP at 500NL? Any regs that do it properly (like balancing it with AA)?
            Most play 5bshove or fold (some mini5bet too)
            I'm still not sure wether it's good or bad 100bb deep.

            In a way you could say 4b flatters are somewhat "polarized": the fish, the bad regs and the absolute sicko's (you see it all the time at the nosebleeds) flat a lot, while the average 'solid' regs play more 5b/fold


            Grinded a lot last 3-4 days but ran really bad EV wise, (7 set under set vs one set over set now for October and ridic amount of KK vs AA) didnt played too well either. Lots of B-game. Still flipping good though.
            Seems like I won't hit my 6EV bb/100
            Experimenting now with bigger openraisers (trend seems to be smaller and smaller but now that everyone knows how to play vs like 2.2bb openraises and with no stacks smaller then 50bb at the table I feel like 3x+ is better again)



            Some hands from yesterday:

            This was the most unreal 500NL table I've ever seen, 4 confirmed fish (not counting Hero) and 1 unknown

              Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
              Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

              Hero (BTN): $516.50 (103.3 bb)
              SB: $561.05 (112.2 bb)
              BB: $1,560.56 (312.1 bb)
              UTG: $2,211.20 (442.2 bb)
              MP: $475.60 (95.1 bb)
              CO: $500 (100 bb)

              Preflop: Hero is BTN with K A
              UTG folds, MP raises to $15, CO folds, Hero raises to $45, SB calls $42.50, BB raises to $125, MP folds, Hero raises to $516.50 and is all-in, SB folds, BB calls $391.50

              Flop: ($1,093) 3 3 4 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
              Turn: ($1,093) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
              River: ($1,093) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)

              Spoiler:
              Results: $1,093 pot ($2.80 rake)
              Final Board: 3 3 4 2 J
              Hero showed K A and won $1,090.20 ($573.70 net)
              BB showed K Q and lost (-$516.50 net)



              Next hand I crai tpgk on the river in a 5b pot (hand is a little lamer than it sounds though )

                Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                BTN: $719.40 (143.9 bb)
                SB: $589.70 (117.9 bb)
                Hero (BB): $508.99 (101.8 bb)
                UTG: $152.20 (30.4 bb)
                MP: $346.93 (69.4 bb)
                CO: $500 (100 bb)

                Preflop: Hero is BB with A J
                3 folds, BTN raises to $10, SB folds, Hero raises to $40, BTN raises to $70, Hero raises to $135, BTN calls $65

                Flop: ($272.50) K 4 A (2 players)
                Hero bets $72, BTN calls $72

                Turn: ($416.50) 7 (2 players)
                Hero checks, BTN checks

                River: ($416.50) 3 (2 players)
                Hero checks, BTN bets $165, Hero raises to $301.99 and is all-in, BTN calls $136.99

                Spoiler:
                Results: $1,020.48 pot ($2.80 rake)
                Final Board: K 4 A 7 3
                BTN showed A T and lost (-$508.99 net)
                Hero showed A J and won $1,017.68 ($508.69 net)



                This one is just symptomatic for how I'm running last 3-4 days:

                  Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                  Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                  BTN: $733.30 (146.7 bb)
                  SB: $549.70 (109.9 bb)
                  Hero (BB): $847.89 (169.6 bb)
                  UTG: $712.28 (142.5 bb)
                  MP: $2,575.12 (515 bb)
                  CO: $769.31 (153.9 bb)

                  Preflop: Hero is BB with K A
                  4 folds, SB raises to $10, Hero raises to $35, SB calls $25

                  Flop: ($70) 3 A 6 (2 players)
                  SB checks, Hero bets $48.38, SB calls $48.38

                  Turn: ($166.76) Q (2 players)
                  SB checks, Hero bets $118.05, SB calls $118.05

                  River: ($402.86) 8 (2 players)
                  SB bets $348.27 and is all-in, Hero calls $348.27

                  Spoiler:
                  Results: $1,099.40 pot ($2.80 rake)
                  Final Board: 3 A 6 Q 8
                  SB showed A 8 and won $1,096.60 ($546.90 net)
                  Hero showed K A and lost (-$549.70 net)



                  Bluff catching overbet with 3rd pair

                    Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                    BTN: $349.88 (70 bb)
                    Hero (SB): $609.69 (121.9 bb)
                    BB: $2,361.21 (472.2 bb)
                    UTG: $247.50 (49.5 bb)
                    MP: $1,459.74 (291.9 bb)
                    CO: $164.69 (32.9 bb)

                    Preflop: Hero is SB with 8 6
                    4 folds, Hero raises to $16.10, BB calls $11.10

                    Flop: ($32.20) J Q 8 (2 players)
                    Hero bets $22.14, BB calls $22.14

                    Turn: ($76.48) 5 (2 players)
                    Hero bets $53.04, BB calls $53.04

                    River: ($182.56) 2 (2 players)
                    Hero checks, BB bets $250, Hero calls $250

                    Spoiler:
                    Results: $682.56 pot ($2.80 rake)
                    Final Board: J Q 8 5 2
                    Hero showed 8 6 and won $679.76 ($338.48 net)
                    BB showed T K and lost (-$341.28 net)



                    And ship the 75 non SD bbs

                      Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                      BTN: $369.60 (73.9 bb)
                      SB: $904.09 (180.8 bb)
                      Hero (BB): $990.32 (198.1 bb)
                      UTG: $307.28 (61.5 bb)
                      MP: $941.80 (188.4 bb)
                      CO: $641.09 (128.2 bb)

                      Preflop: Hero is BB with J T
                      UTG folds, MP raises to $12.50, CO calls $12.50, BTN folds, SB calls $10, Hero calls $7.50

                      Flop: ($50) 5 T 6 (4 players)
                      SB checks, Hero bets $34.38, MP folds, CO calls $34.38, SB folds

                      Turn: ($118.76) 7 (2 players)
                      Hero bets $83.49, CO calls $83.49

                      River: ($285.74) 5 (2 players)
                      Hero checks, CO bets $225, Hero raises to $859.95 and is all-in, CO folds

                      Spoiler:
                      Results: $735.74 pot ($2.80 rake)
                      Final Board: 5 T 6 7 5
                      Hero mucked J T and won $732.94 ($377.57 net)
                      CO mucked and lost (-$355.37 net)



                      edit: loooool I played that last hand last night when I was supertired, and only now that I post the HH I notice I wasnt UTG but BB


                      edit2: How could I forget this hand:

                        Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                        BTN: $933.76 (186.8 bb)
                        SB: $3,331.28 (666.3 bb)
                        BB: $815.59 (163.1 bb)
                        Hero (UTG): $510.01 (102 bb)
                        MP: $613.49 (122.7 bb)
                        CO: $492.50 (98.5 bb)

                        Preflop: Hero is UTG with T J
                        Hero raises to $16.10, MP raises to $40, 2 folds, SB calls $37.50, BB folds, Hero calls $23.90

                        Flop: ($125) 3 J 8 (3 players)
                        SB bets $160, Hero calls $160, MP folds

                        Turn: ($445) Q (2 players)
                        SB bets $415, Hero calls $310.01 and is all-in

                        River: ($1,065.02) 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

                        Spoiler:
                        Results: $1,065.02 pot ($2.80 rake)
                        Final Board: 3 J 8 Q 3
                        SB showed 2 2 and lost (-$510.01 net)
                        Hero showed T J and won $1,062.22 ($552.21 net)

                        Last edited by LorenzoVMatterhorn; 10-22-2012 at 10:22 AM.
                        10-22-2012 , 12:26 PM
                        thx for the answer
                        10-22-2012 , 01:23 PM
                        Any chance you could say who you think are top 5 regs at 500NL zoom? And maybe mention a couple of the horrible ones? Don't worry if you'd rather not, I understand. I'm playing 200NL zoom atm fwiw, so play with some of the sickos who play 200 & 500, and hoping to move up at some point in the future. + watched alot of videos from 500zoom guys, so just interested

                        GL
                        10-23-2012 , 01:58 PM
                        Not gonna name the horrible ones, seem like a bad idea.

                        Top 5, obv highly subjective and biased etc...

                        Only including people with Zoom as their main game and atleast 5k hands in my db

                        In no particular order:

                        Razed&Confused (lool tilting everyone with his hud blocking & back in the days, overall solid hard to play against)
                        mynameiskarl (know him rl, lately discussing some hhs, saw some of his graphs, just solid agro and wins a lot pots both pre and post)
                        orlovgraf (inconspicous reg but cant really find leaks, and cant recall seeing him spewing ever)
                        Brightstripe (same as orlo, just one of those regs where you have no clue about how you're gonna make money vs them)
                        and couldnt really find a 5th


                        Binked one red 88 (split pot lol but it qualified) and stacked one red 88 trying to hit his bonus. Nice promo imo.
                        10-23-2012 , 04:52 PM
                        Lol you sir are just sick. Nice challenge so far. Would like to ask you which ebooks would you recommend for micro player like myself since you mentioned ebooks as part of your learning curve. The problem I have is I don't really know how to tackle the whole trying to improve my game. I used to watch some videos or read random forum threads, analyze my hands but all that doesn't really ammount to much improvement. I should maybe take a step back and try to understand the concepts more. GL in this challenge in the future!
                        10-23-2012 , 07:18 PM
                        I'm not familiar with the more recent books (and they prob will be better suited for todays games) But 2-3 years ago I thought Ryan Fee's ebook (free pdf) Verneers (movingup through unl in 2010, free pdf) one was good too. The Poker Blueprint was ok. And Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller was also ok.
                        For understanding the concepts of poker, Mathematics of Poker is a great book, but no really a beginner book, and not always too easy too apply.

                        Seems like I found back my Mojo!
                        unfortunately a bit too late for my challenge though



                        Kinda remarkable how as soon as my redline starts declining my EV upswing ended and last 17k hands when I got my redline back to break even my EV starts upswinging again.

                        95k hands 5.98bb/100 3.63 EV bb/100

                        Spewing hard but lot of villains spew harder, and I run better atm.

                        fwiw I'm totally in love with the boom promotion:

                          Poker Stars, $2.50/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                          Hero (BTN): $918.48 (183.7 bb)
                          SB: $500 (100 bb)
                          BB: $416.64 (83.3 bb)
                          UTG: $1,983.12 (396.6 bb)
                          MP: $1,157.88 (231.6 bb)
                          CO: $3,636.26 (727.3 bb)

                          Preflop: Hero is BTN with J A
                          2 folds, CO calls $5, Hero raises to $17.50, 2 folds, CO calls $12.50

                          Flop: ($42.50) 4 K J (2 players)
                          CO checks, Hero bets $29.22, CO calls $29.22

                          Turn: ($100.94) 9 (2 players)
                          CO checks, Hero bets $70.66, CO calls $70.66

                          River: ($242.26) K (2 players)
                          CO checks, Hero bets $425, CO calls $425

                          Spoiler:
                          Results: $1,092.26 pot ($2.80 rake)
                          Final Board: 4 K J 9 K
                          Hero showed J A and won $1,089.46 ($547.08 net)
                          CO mucked 4 A and lost (-$542.38 net)

                          Villain is actually a nit.
                          10-23-2012 , 08:46 PM
                          Thanks for reply Lorenzo. I'm not surprised you rate Razed&Con. Heard alot of people really respect his game.

                                
                          m