Hey karamazonk, following this thread has been great. Are you going to play in the WSOP this year?

Hi Karamazonk, I just want to thank you for sharing your experiences over the last few months on here, it's rare that someone that crushes the game and has such a solid mindset chooses to share there experiences on here and I appreciate it.

I've been meaning to ask your thoughts about the idea on 4/5/6 dealers choice PLO. Currently in my area in England there is holdem games which are filled with experienced, well versed pros and competent recs to so the edge isn't massive, however there is the PLO games which run which is where all the whales and more recrational players looking to gamble go to. My question is, do you think that it would be worth possibly spending more time focusing on the PLO game even though the variance is so unbelievably high when a lot of people are choosing 5/6 card or is the probably better to stick to holdem? I'm definitely competent and rolled enough to play and beat both games however do you think I should be looking to take advantage of the PLO more so than the holdem? Thanks again.

Haha, fair enough. $4k wins were few and far between prior to this local 5-10 PLO era, which started only a few months ago, but now a $4k win feels so comfortably within the realm of my expectations that it seems like no big deal.

It's interesting how moving up in poker is accompanied by an ever-increasing desensitization to money. When I first started playing poker in college, I'd be genuinely upset to lose $5 in a sit n go with a few friends friends because it seemed like too much $ to gamble away. That might sound absurd, but it's the truth. Then, a few years ago, losing $1k in a session hurt pretty hard emotionally just by virtue of it seeming like so much money. Now, during this 5-10 PLO era, I've quickly shrugged off some $4k+ losers, while others have been pretty upsetting. Point being, sometimes the sheer monetary amount of a losing session is enough by itself regardless of what circumstances led to that result to yield negative emotions, but for me that monetary threshold has increased dramatically as I've become more and more desensitized to money.

Fortunately, I continue to be a pretty hardcore life nit when it comes to $ and I've been able to keep this desensitization phenomenon mentally confined to the felt. I believe that a common pitfall of pros is failing to draw this line, which is especially a problem for pros who are attracted to the game because of its gambling element and gamble with large amounts of $ in the pits, sports betting, etc. I've been fortunate in that I continue to have zero interest in the pits or any form of gambling where I feel like an edge isn't possible.

Thanks! I'm not sure yet, but I'd say I'm 80+% to spend some time at the WSOP this summer. I spent almost the entire WSOP in Vegas last year in a house with some pro friends, and, even though I had a lot of fun in the house, results-wise it ended up being a disaster. I bricked almost every tournament I played, even though my average finishing position was probably top 25%. I consistently had absymal luck on the bubble, getting knocked out of the $1500 HORSE starting with rolled up sevens in stud8 in a great position to triple up, getting knocked out of the $1500 NL 6 Max one person away from being ITM after being crippled by a brutal beat where if AK could fade AJ aipf I'd be top 5 in chips with 20% of field left, etc. (apologies for the bad beat stories!).

One neat thing that appealed to the poker fanboy in me was that in playing a bunch of WSOP tourneys I did end up playing with a lot of big and semi-big names. The two who impressed me the most were David Benefield and Steven Chidwick, Benefield because of the immaculate quality of his decision-making and Chidwick because of his hyper-focused, intimidating table presence.

My luck in cash games was as crappy as my luck in tournaments last summer. After winning my first five or six sessions, I went on a downswing, which started with me running horrible and finished with me playing horrible while still running horrible. It was extremely frustrating, especially since I had dreamed for years of being able to spend a whole summer in Vegas and imagined much better things happening.

The whole experience left me with a bitter taste in my mouth, especially with regard to tournaments, and I don't think I've played a tournament since. Moreover, the cash games last summer just didn't seem that great; I've noticed that they've in fact gotten worse every summer, especially in PLO. However, I do think that tournaments like the Monster Stack, Millionaire Maker, and $1500 HORSE (which all happen to be within two weeks of each other this summer) are such high value that I don't think I'll be able to pass them up. Truthfully, my cash game ability is much stronger than my tournament ability, but I still think I'm solidly +EV in any tournament I decide to play. I'll probably be there the first couple of weeks of June this summer. Haven't booked anything yet.

Thanks; it's been my pleasure and I hope to keep the thread content valuable. Sounds like you already have a strong impression as to what direction to go in based on your phrasing of the question. When in doubt, I say follow the whales and their dead $, if you're comfortable shouldering the risk of increased variance. NL will always be there waiting for you and at this point you're likely experiencing a diminishing rate of return on the extent to which more experience improves your game; who knows how much longer that soft PLO game will last?

One more question... you may have covered this already but why do you play PLO over NLHE?

I play both games and play whatever the best game available locally is. Right now, there's a PLO boom in town.

Things have continued to gone well since my last update. In poker, I've been extending the heater, including winning my biggest pot ever ($15.4k) and having my biggest session ever (+$13.3k) since my last post. Exciting events for sure, but I haven't felt as compelled to write about my sessions itt lately, partly because it would be repetitive, partly because the heater has spoiled me a bit and my emotions over my results have gotten duller.

Also of note, I did some number crunching for the last 365 days and discovered I've made more than I would have if I was still at the law firm during that time period, which is awesome and quite validating given others' perceived riskiness of my choice to take a different path. I continue to have no regrets about quitting my job. I just want to keep focusing on making good decisions at the table while using my time off the felt to grow as a person and figure out my longterm plan.

Life-wise, my attitude has been all over the place lately. With a heater going strong, I've had a lot of good days and positive emotions, but I've also had a lot of moments over the last couple of weeks where I've felt depressed and pretty fatigued both mentally and physically even though I've done a good job working out regularly and eating well. I'm sure that's due to some extent to the huge volume I've been putting in and the accompanying monotonous, taxing grind, but I believe there are deeper reasons as well.

Truth be told, while I'm much happier and healthier now than when I was at the firm, I still feel a decent amount of spiritual malaise and it's been especially acute lately. I've found great intellectual fulfillment in poker, and I've met some talented and interesting people I never would have met otherwise, but the lack of social utility bothers me and it does eat away at me sometimes that poker is a zero sum game and I am earning $ at the expense of others. I also feel that now that mentally I've successfully scratched the itch of knowing whether I can succeed as a poker pro, I find myself looking for a new challenge. As such, even though things are going better than ever in poker and I plan on putting up significant volume for a long time (i.e., maybe the rest of my life) for sheer love of the game and profit potential, I am still eager to figure out what's next, which, as a reminder, is why I started this thread in the first place.

I've been starting to do some poker-related stuff away from the table I'm excited about. After turning down previous opportunities to coach, I found myself saying yes for the first time to a friend who's been struggling and looking for some mental game and nlhe coaching. We had our first session the other day and it felt good to help him reach some aha moments. I've also been doing some writing about poker away from this thread that I may seek to do something larger with, but having been advised that creativity about such things can get dulled by discussing them prematurely, I'll leave it at that for now.

In non-poker news, I finally checked out the sensory deprivation tank the other day for my first flotation experience. The first few minutes were terrifying; I felt like I was being buried alive, and I almost found I couldn't go through with it. Eventually, though, I settled down and it ended up being a neat experience. While the first ten minutes felt like an eternity, the music to signal the end of my hourlong session went off about twenty minutes earlier than I expected, meaning that the tank had the unexpected effect of time going faster rather than slower. I never reached a state of consciousness too different from anything else I've experienced, but I could feel myself on the verge of it. Flotation strikes me as something that with comfort and experience can become a very powerful tool for relaxation and self-acutalization; I plan on making monthly or every other month visits from here on out.

I've also spent a decent time exploring some new media. Listened to the first four episodes of Serial on the way to and from the spa with the flotation tank, and they were as interesting as advertised. I've also watched the first 2.5 seasons of Damages on Netflix over the last few weeks and have been enjoying that, even though it gets a lot of things comically wrong about how litigation works. Books-wise, I enjoyed The Honest Truth About Dishonesty and also read The Choose Yourself Guide to Wealth by James Altucher, one of my favorite human beings. I'm reading a book about "wu wei" (aspect of Eastern philosophy) right now entitled "Trying Not to Try," and it's been a fun read. I've also been doing a lot of Internet research on investing as I can finally look to do some with my student loans having become more manageable.

I'll be taking next week off to spend some time with my family. It'll be interesting to see what happens to this 5-10 PLO game over the next few weeks, as the guy who's been starting the game every day will be out of town for a few weeks starting next week and then the WSOP is coming up.

Good to hear your little hiatus was profitable. (It's a sign of a quality thread when a brief period of inactivity from posting doesn't necessarily mean the author lost his bankroll and went back to his busboy gig at Applebee's. )

Although I haven't achieved the level of success you've had since you've been playing full time (I've earned a modest, low-expense living at mostly 2/5 for the past 4 or 5 years), I know exactly where you're coming from when you talk about your feelings for the game and playing for a living. I do love the game and have a passion for it, and the freedom it provides me to enjoy other things in life and make my own schedule is the greatest benefit. But at the same time, I do occasionally feel... I don't know, sort of a disconnect. It's not that I have this burning desire to do something great and meaningful with my life-- hell, I was a bartender for 10 years before poker, and I loved it. I don't need to work on curing cancer or build schools in impoverished countries to feel fulfilled as a human being. But that said, even bartending provides a service to people, and even a bartender feels that certain level of fulfillment and pride that people have when they actually, you know, work. (Yes, I take my job seriously and do refer to it as "working" every day, but I'm sure you get my gist.) I could go on plenty more about this, but I'll quit here. /ramble

I've noticed some form of this sentiment pop up in a lot of threads, including many of the better PGC threads I've encountered. In my case, what I feel sometimes nagging away at me is a blend of spiritual emptiness, guilt, and shame. I'm torn in figuring out to what extent I want to treat such feelings as well-grounded.

On the one hand, I know that this uneasiness with how I provide for myself comes at least to some extent from a culturally ingrained perception of what "work" is that, when more closely examined, is a perspective I don't believe in. One of the reasons I like the book "Choose Yourself" by James Altucher so much is that it pulls no punches in debunking the baby boomer dream of working yourself up the corporate ladder over the course of decades (mostly carrying out the visions of other people, not your own) that most people still treat as irrefutable gospel for how to live your life. It seems many people have never questioned whether this "9 to 5 for 40 years" paradigm makes sense or even considered the possibility of how one could live a life outside of it. Even though I'm thrilled about my different path and have no regrets, I still find myself falling prey sometimes to this kind of preconceived notion about what "work" should look like.

Some of the moments I dread the most right now are fielding questions about what I do. Often, whoever is asking appears totally dumbfounded by my answer. Even people who are decently intelligent appear to have a difficult time grasping how I can be a professional poker player no matter how thoughtfully I try to explain it. These people will pepper me with "but how much do you lose" type questions and/or demonstrate a total inability to understand how cash games work because the only poker they know is the tournament poker they've seen on ESPN. Other people don't seem to understand that I'm not playing against "the house" and I can see them silently wondering to themselves when I am going to realize that I'm a sucker who can't win over the longterm. Other people immediately get uncomfortable talking further about it and I can tell they're thinking I must be some kind of an unemployable degenerate. Honestly, I can't think of a single time I've been chatted up by a non-poker player about what I do and enjoyed talking about it.

The above paragraph speaks to how uncomfortable (and further, incapable) many people are entertaining the idea of career paths that deviate from the norm. Whether I like it or not, I find that such a strong reaction of puzzlement and sometimes even disgust from the non-poker playing public about how I live my life plays into my occasional bouts of guilt and shame. I want to be respected and I want people to understand how I can be successful doing what I do, but it appears to be virtually impossible for me to get such recognition from many people. To me, this has actually been one of the biggest challenges I've faced in having embarked upon this non-traditional path, especially after having previously been able to talk about being a lawyer, something most people generally understand and respect. The reality is my path of abandoning biglaw in favor of poker is literally incomprehensible to many people.

Admittedly, I have my own internal struggles about what I do. As machi alluded to, it's difficult to deal with the fact that there's almost no social utility to being a poker pro. To some extent, this isn't as big a problem for me as it could be since there wasn't much social utility to what I was doing previously, either, as I spent most of my time and energy doing work on behalf of clients w/ deep pockets and advancing agendas that weren't always in the public interest. But, as stimulating and rewarding as poker can be, I do find that I need something more that poker will probably never be able to provide me. Maybe it sounds naive, but I want to do more to make the world a better place. On my deathbed, I'm not going to be regretting that I didn't play more poker.

While at the end of the day I think my occasional feelings of guilt and shame are mostly misguided and largely the product of caring too much about what others think while also because I'm subscribing too much to an outdated mindset about how to live life, I do think I'll continue to struggle with the lack of social utility and corresponding emptiness I feel sometimes about what I do.

I'm still figuring this all out, and I don't want to give the impression I'm dealing with some kind of existential crisis; rather, these are feelings I've had since the beginning, and they haven't stopped me from deriving great enjoyment and satisfaction from poker, which I will continue to do. Most days, I am in a state of happy disbelief as to how much more free and more consistent with who I am my life is now compared to how it was when I was with the firm. To have the freedom I have now coupled with an income well beyond adequate is truly awesome. There's no question I've made major strides towards living a life closer to the kind I want. I just think there are plenty more strides to make, and I believe most of those will have to be made off the felt.

Wow. One of the best posts I've seen on 2+2.

something tells me that you will eventually find what you are looking for in life, karam. best of luck to you in your journey both on and off the felt.

Keep up the good work... and thank for the thought-provoking post

+1

If there was no social utility to playing poker it would have died off years/decades ago. In fact it would have never have happened. People like me don't meander into a casino mindlessly just to lose over and over. It is enjoyable even it we are not a true life super donkey crusher. A guy like Andy beal on a smaller scale enjoys being able to lose 500-1000$ and not care. It is the same as the old man who buys a sports car but never goes over 70mph or any other vanity in life. What is the social utility of a 10k Apple watch, a Louis Vuitton, etc. Keep on crushing and try to educate those who don't understand.

If they don't or won't understand, challenging them hu4rollz might help them understand faster. Otherwise enjoy your life.

So somehow I completely missed this thread. I've yet to read it in its entirety, however I'm particularly impressed with your introspection that was reflected in your last post. I'm going through many of the same experiences, so your blog is particularly interesting to me. I play live plo/nlhe in Vegas and I'm seriously considering attending Law School for all the high-minded ideas that are at least intuitively important to me. Looking forward to reading the thread man, let's grab a drink when you come to Vegas.

What you're referring to here is an ingrained social bias. The problem is that there's very little sympathy in the community if you "cry foul". Like any bias, you can overcome it through education, but, who, in all seriousness, will grant you enough time to educate them about the distinction between risk management and gambling. The fact that the bias inflecting the social perception of poker has a strong moral element makes this situation even more difficult. Not only do relatively intelligent people fail to recognise how it's possible to systematically exploit an edge through the science of probability and strategic thinking, they also assume that the addictive nature of gambling has caused you to become "deluded" and therefore incapable of making rational statements. You are "technically" an expert in the field of poker and yet the person to whom you're imparting knowledge is virtually incapable of critically accepting this knowledge as truthful and valuable because they believe that you're merely attempting to justify your own pathological behaviour. Sometimes when faced with these situations I feel like I'm in a Kafka novel; I've now concluded that it's best to avoid them, not least because Kafka novels rarely end well.

Rather than become upset by this kind of social situation I prefer to think about the matter in less personal terms. While this is not always easy, because we feel that our social status is being undermined by others, the reality is that people do become addicted to gambling and suffer significantly as a result. Sure, you're clearly not one of these people, but what if you were, what would your view of poker be then? I often have this thought when I see non-poker friends of mine at the casino, friends who are relatively competent at the game, but have significant family and work commitments that could easily be derailed if they played too much. In fact, I subtly try to dissuade them from playing, especially when it becomes apparent that they're not practising proper bankroll and time management. So, when a non-poker acquaintance gives you that look of disbelief and concern, if find yourself cornered into explaining your current occupation, maybe just say to yourself: "well in their mind, they believe they're expressing a duty of care, and, in relation to other people, this actually might be appropriate".

I'm sure you've put much thought into this matter, but I don't believe poker has much social utility, in itself, either. However, this doesn't mean poker pros can't actually have a meaningful impact upon their immediate communities, given their relatively free lifestyles. There are many people who seriously need legal advice and yet lack appropriate access for financial, social and cultural reasons. Why not "utilise" your expertise in the legal arena to help offset the relatively selfish impulses that are necessary to play poker successfully. It's probably difficult to justify offering free legal advice when you still have student loan repayments to make, but you might find it helps avoid burnout and acts as an emotional and psychological buffer against the various ailments to which one is always vulnerable in the poker world.

Thanks for the love and good wishes, all. The positive reinforcement helps keep me going in this thread and in life.

I like the hu4rollz suggestion

Re: social utility, I think your response is a strawman argument because it follows from an unstated assumption that because poker has many positive attributes it must also have a net positive social utility. I agree with you that poker has a lot to offer and enhances a lot of people's lives, in effect being a net positive for many people. It's fun, it can be exhilarating and offer a hell of an adrenaline rush, it's mentally and psychologically stimulating, it offers a really neat social environment where you can meet all kinds of people and interact with them free of the normal barriers of the outside world, etc. A lot of these kinds of positives are touched upon in this article that I like: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/op...rica.html?_r=0

For the reasons stated above, I think one could make an argument that poker has a tendency to make people more open-minded, better objective thinkers, and more likely to have a more diverse set of friends, and all of these effects likely create their own ripples which benefit society at large. There is indeed some real social utility there.

Yet, for many people poker is overall a bad thing in their lives and they'd be better off if they had never played the game. I can't say for what % of the poker playing population that's true, but it's a larger # than most of us would be comfortable to admit. I believe it's this dark aspect of the game that mrGr33n is reacting to when he refuses to promote the game after winning the One Drop. In many cases, a lot of people whose lives suffer because of poker are self-destructive people who if poker wasn't available to them would probably just as easily find something else to use to sabotage themselves. Nevertheless, I'm uneasy taking much if any consolation in that fact.

Anyways, the greater point I've been trying to make is that there is very limited social utility specifically in being a poker professional. To the extent I am actually making the world a better place by playing poker (which I don't think that I am), I could be doing a lot more good for the world doing many other things that interest me.

Thank you for the kind words. FWIW, I tell anyone willing to listen that law school is a horrible idea right now for 99% of prospective law school students. A couple of sources that I think sum it up pretty well you should check out: 1) The Crisis of the American Law School, by Paul Campos, 2) Inside the Law School Scam (blog maintained by law school professors).

I'd be up for meeting peeps from this thread when I'm going to be in Vegas, more details to come.

It's nice to know that I have a kindred spirit on the other side of the world! Seriously, our worldviews appear to be very similar. "Kafkaesque" describes the situation perfectly. In response to this phenomenon, if it's someone I expect to never see again I've lately found myself either lying and making up something vague about being a freelance legal researcher (which is somewhat true, since I've done some of that work after leaving the firm) or just trying to avoid the subject altogether.

Re: choosing how to deal with this issue internally, I like your suggestions quite a bit and have had similar thoughts on the matter, which have helped the struggle.

Great suggestions, again; I agree that the free lifestyle of a poker pro can be more conducive to making a positive impact. I've actually been wanting to volunteer for awhile. I did full-time community service work for the year following my college graduation and it offered some of the most rewarding experiences I've had in life. I've been in touch with the local dog shelter about volunteering there and know how to make that happen, so maybe I'll finally go through with it soon.

I've also had my interest in legal volunteer work piqued lately after listening to Serial. I might look into some opportunities on that front.

I also think, if I continue playing poker and reach a high level of financial security, donating to charity (carefully researched to ensure legitimacy) may prove to be a nice way to ease concerns about having a positive impact.

I'd enjoy that. It would be cool to buy a few coaching sessions if you have the time.

In regards to Law school, I'm incredibly conflicted on my decision. On one hand I think it is, at least socially, a responsible thing to do. Among my very few talents is the ability to read for about 8-10 hours a day and analyze complex ideas. In university I studied political philosophy/science with a concentration in ethics, and thoroghly enjoyed every second of it. The proposition seems appealing if I completely ignore the financial risk. As it is now, the lowest predicted debt load for the Law program at my Alma Mater is about 180k, and it is about 100k if I go to UNLV. This combined with about 30k in UG debt leaves me completely ambivalent about what to do next. I've had pretty good success playing live 2/5 nl and plo, but I'm worried about attaining balance that people like Rob Farha are able to achieve. The reason why I've found success at poker is that I'm obsessive, which can be a good thing in Law School as well. The problem that you alluded to is that there are too many lawyers, the average salary vs tuition is unfavorable, and the job can be equally or less fulfilling than poker. The biggest difference between us is that if you go busto, you can hang a shingle or apply to another firm. If poker doesnt work out, I'd like to have options as well.

I contend that poker is inherently beautiful and perfect. There are no dark aspects of the game; there are only dark aspects of human nature.

I used to have the same problem with talking about "what I did". But I don't anymore. I had made similar views as you do but eventually came to a these conclusions. Most of them are base on the theories of Social Values.

The problem wasn't with them but with me. Trying to explain yourself to a stranger, girl or acquaintance puts you in the defense. It lowers your social value. When you add to the fact that your own confidence might be low in your own answers, makes it all seem shady in their eyes. Their follow up questions are then basically polite attacks in an attempt to "expose" you.

I have found the best thing is short answers, jokes, along with high confidence is all most people need to feel good about it. The confidence is the key. Your confidence in your own position will make them less hostile to it. If they are still hostile, then just blow it off. But do not try to debate or explain yourself to these people. It will just make it worst.

Most people if given simple answers with high confidence will be satisfied. They might have a few follow up questions but if answered the same with short answers, you can then just move on to more interesting topics.

Some men are really curious. If after a few times of semi-dismissing their questions, I sense they are really interested. Then I ask them something like, "Are you really interested because it can be fairly math heavy and complex". If they say yes, then you are in a spot of teaching them and therefore not lowering your value. You are raising your social value to them. They therefore will be more accepting to your answers.


Big However!

If this is a woman you are interested in then talking about this is just death. Blow it off, tell your you are a tricycle repairman (your specialize only in three-wheeled bikes) or something silly. Avoid the question is my advice. Not in a shifty way but in a Hey-I-don't-know-you-that-well sort of way. If that are persistent, "You trying to steal my identity? Let me see some ID." Always in a fun, positive playful way it key.

Not because I think what we do isn't interesting or shady but to make her truly understand it will make the conversation uninteresting to her. Therefore making you uninteresting to her.

Also in order to really explain it, you must get into that teacher mode... which most of the time also make you unappealing. It is just a lose-lose.

I'm not sure yet whether I'm officially putting myself out there as a coach, but I'll let you know. Thanks for the interest either way.

Re: law school, I was attracted to it for similar reasons, in addition to some others. To be brutally honest, the reasons you list aren't nearly good enough to justify the massive time investment of three peak years of your life and six figures of debt. That's especially the case now, where you do all that just to get your foot in the door of an over-satured market in crisis where the majority of that market wishes they were in a different profession (other recommended reading: Why Are Lawyers so Unhappy, by Martin Seligman). Even elite law schools are struggling some with job placement now. The profession is a complete and utter mess.

Honestly, I thought at the time I had good reasons to go to law school (similar to what you listed, plus I was certain I could get admitted to an elite law school and was a prestige whore at the time), but I realized after graduating that I never did. On paper, my reasons for going looked solid, but the reality was I couldn't think of anything better to do and I didn't push myself hard enough to not go the path of least resistance.

If I still haven't convinced you, Tucker Max says it all better than I can: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tucker...b_2713943.html


Thanks for popping in, JCW; everything you write amounts to a great mindset and I'm going to try harder to follow it. I've noticed over the last couple of years that one of my life leaks is in too many contexts immediately putting myself in the position of lower value w/ someone by taking the defensive w/o realizing it, as you discuss (and as I talked about in a previous post about me and women). I think that speaks to a greater self-worth issue for me that I'm happy to finally be conscious of and am working to improve.

(VERY LONG) UPDATE: I've been playing less hours than usual lately, for multiple reasons. First, the catalyst for the 5-10 PLO game has been out of town. While the game has still ran at least every other day, it hasn't been nearly as good. Second, now that the daily juicy PLO games are no longer and I've had some time away from the tables to think, I've found that over the last two weeks I've had less motivation than at any point in my professional career to play poker. I was troubled by this at first, but I'm more OK with it now. Let me explain.

Since turning pro around June '13, I've grinded harder than probably the vast majority of live pros, having played ~3200 hours of live cash games, 50+ live tournaments, and several hundred hours of online poker.

I'm not sure what exact balance of factors have been responsible for maintaining that kind of volume, but I can identify some: a) I tend to enjoy playing poker and it's still very stimulating to me in a number of ways, b) poker has been my primary social outlet and now the source of most of my friendships, c) I came from a job that required me to work very long, stressful hours, so I have a different perspective than most when it comes to what a demanding work schedule looks like, d) I've been extremely motivated to pay off my student loans ASAP and have been treating making a lot of $ quickly to pay them off as one of my top priorities, e) poker is the facet of my life where I feel the most confident and I think I have a tendency to use it as a crutch for my self-esteem when I’m not doing so well in other areas of life, f) in contrast to a lot of players, I've historically reacted to upswings by playing more and have historically reacted to downswings by playing more, g) poker offers an easy excuse not to do other things I have this nagging feeling I should be doing because of its profitability and other reasons listed.

With 2015 having gone so much better than even my most optimistic expectations entering the year, I've suddenly found myself thrust in a position that I was mentally unprepared for: I can now pay off my student loans in full and still have a healthy bankroll and liferoll. I'm thrilled, but starting last week the “now what” feeling that I had when I started this thread felt stronger than ever. For years, I’ve fantasized about having my loans paid off (as a reminder, my balance started at $180k), and getting closer to the realization of that fantasy was by far the biggest motivational force keeping me at the firm for as long as I managed to stay there. With all that fantasizing about financial freedom came fantasizing about newfound career freedom. But now that freedom from my loans is coming, I have no definitive life plans to go along with it.

Last week, my growing awareness of this realization made me pretty depressed. Several days in a row, I woke up and couldn’t bring myself to get out of bed for over an hour, feeling de-energized and aimless. One night, I went to see a movie (Kumiko the Treasure Hunter), an activity that historically has been pretty good at shaking me out of a bout of depression, but it just made me even more depressed. Disturbingly, as mentioned above, this was also the time I realized I had very little desire to play poker, a pretty novel issue for me. I ended up playing some anyways, managing to get in 24 hours for the week, and it helped me feel better, but it bothered me that I felt like I was forcing myself to play whereas most of my poker career has been simply following where my passion directed me (i.e., the felt).

And, it’s now time for this post to take an unexpected turn.

A few days ago, I found myself reading a bunch of blog posts regarding the “no fap” movement and masturbation’s effect on energy and confidence when I stumbled upon an insightful post by Mark Manson. That prompted me to do some research on him and I found he had written a book, “Models: Attract Women Through Honesty.” I decided to check it out. I downloaded it on my kindle, started reading it, and it resonated very strongly with me immediately.

Long story short, it revealed to me that my self-confidence issues are even deeper and more pervasive than I had realized, and it addressed thoroughly and convincingly why I’ve struggled to have success with women over the last few years, in addition to having plenty of other struggles. Basically, and this is embarrassing but cathartic to admit, in many domains of life I’ve been more invested in other people’s opinions of me than I’ve been invested in my own opinion of myself, caring more about their approval of me than I care about my approval of myself. Women can sniff this lack of confidence very easily and it’s a huge turn-off. Worse, it’s a ****ty way to go through life.

Reading the book helped me realize how ridiculous it is that, when I’ve been preparing for dates, I’ve rigorously thought through what I’d say regarding every potential conversation subject relating to my interests and poker playing, desperate to package everything just right, eager for approval and not to be judged harshly. It may sound obvious (and hopefully for your sake it does), but it took me reading about how unhealthy that attitude is in print to realize how disrespectful to myself such an approaching to dating is. Instead of caring how she perceives me, I should just be myself, have fun, and try to assess whether she’s someone who I think could add value to my life. To some extent, I had already been aware that my mindset regarding the need to package and explain my poker playing was misguided, and it was even recently brought up in this thread, but it took this book to really hammer the point home to me, to understand just how much that mindset comes from a longstanding mental place of insecurity that’s been crippling to me in many ways.

The book also made me recall an episode that occurred during my recent bout of depression. One of those nights, I walked into a fairly nice Indian restaurant during the evening to pick up a carry out order, and I had a distinct feeling of uneasiness when I left. Thinking back on that night, I realized that the uneasiness was because from the moment I walked in I felt like I didn’t belong there. I looked around at the groups of people dining in, including a bunch of attractive women my age, and I just had this powerful sense of feeling like a loser. Overwhelmingly so. Even though I had done nothing but walk in unnoticed, pay for my order, and leave. Why do I feel this way, I wondered, the same way I feel when I see movies alone. The fact that it was Friday night had something to do with this particular discomfort, as mentally I showed to the world I didn’t have anything better to do on a Friday at 9 PM. Of course, I “showed this” to people who weren’t even paying attention to me but instead were simply enjoying their meals in peace or worrying about their own problems, but in my head I was oblivious to that reality.

This overwhelming sense of inadequacy that I often feel has been puzzling to me. I should have all the external validation I need to feel good about myself in the eyes of others (and apologies for the bragging, but I want to illustrate a point): I’m in good shape, I’m at least average looking, I was a college academic all-star and then went to an elite law school, I've been told by many that I am a well-rounded, talented, compassionate person, I’ve been doing great financially the last few years, etc. Yet I felt totally unworthy of these people I didn’t even know. Something inside still told me that I was a loser. The same voice that was pounded into my brain during all the emotional abuse I experienced early in life (I don’t want to elaborate on this; suffice to say I had some rough years as an adolescent and teen). The reality is, I should have never cared much about external validation or other peoples’ opinions to begin with. Instead, I should care more about being as close to my ideal of my best self as possible.

I’ve had a number of aha moments reading this book and I have to say it’s the best resource I’ve ever encountered (and I’ve read a bunch) regarding attraction. Actually, “attraction” doesn’t go far enough. It’s one of the best resources I’ve ever read regarding self-confidence. It’s given me a jolt I had long ago failed to realize I needed regarding being a confident person and enjoying the benefits of that confidence.

In contrast to last week, I’ve felt great this week. I’ve been getting out of bed excited, I’ve been exercising more, I haven’t engaged in any self-loving at all after realizing it was a source of energy drain and something I was doing to prevent myself from going out and actually meeting women, I cleaned my apartment a bit, I’ve made a list of things I’d been putting off forever that I want to get done over the next couple weeks (like, set dentist’s appointment, consolidate retirement accounts), basically I’ve been doing things I hadn’t been doing before because, fundamentally, I wasn’t respecting myself enough. To some extent, I think for a very long time I’ve been rejecting the reality of my life as an avoidance solution to issues that arose decades ago and were never properly resolved. I feel like a void that had previously made its presence known to me yet was unrecognizable has now been exposed, and, more importantly, can be fixed.

With this boost in confidence, I feel better about everything. It’s not as important to me anymore that I have my entire life set out before me; a lot of that pressure was coming from concerns about how other people viewed my professional poker playing and my having an easily digestible story for them about how I would eventually be transitioning to something else. I realize now I’ve been placing undue weight on how other people perceive my life, while disregarding the merits of my own satisfaction with it. I also feel more motivated to keep playing poker indefinitely, but to do so with a better work-life balance, as I do think I had let it become a way for me to escape growing in other areas of life. I may have been able to rationalize grinding long hours to myself before because of the financial pressure exerted by my loans, but under these new debt-free circumstances and my new hunger to explore life anew, for the first time in a long time I don’t want poker to dominate my life. I’m more interested in crushing life, the goal of this thread.

tl ; dr

Debt-free, woohoo!

As a foreigner, I've always been amazed/appalled at he US system regarding student debt... it seems so wrong on so many levels. Cripple a guy in his early twenties with a 200k debt to make sure he can't do anything other than get a high-paying job straight out of college? Great idea.

Nice to read about your progress regarding self-confidence, etc. Somehow I feel that you are in a place where being in contact with new people in a new context could do you a lot of good - have you considered taking a month off for some kind of adventure, now that you are debt-free?

Thanks, palinca! The US system is the only one I've ever known, so I don't know how it compares to others, but I agree that the situation right now is severely messed up. Education costs have risen tenfold over the last few decades without any rhyme or reason, ironically as the value of a college degree continues to decline.

I think your suggestion would indeed do me a lot of good right now and I actually had already been considering an adventure somewhere, preferably abroad. I've always been interested in Norway, Sweden, Iceland, China, Australia, Japan, maybe one of those countries (or more than one). Something to consider post-WSOP.

I spent about a month and a half in China almost 3 years ago and I have to say that it was one of the bigger moments in my life. Seeing that different of a culture, but one i really respect, up close really helped put things in perspective and feel better about what I had in my life and how things were going for me. I don't want to make it sound like I took pleasure in people being lower than me, but more just ebing around different reactions to occurrences was amazingly helpful and stimulating.

That's not an endorsement to go there though, but more how I think you should structure your decisions on where to visit. What culture/lifestyle do you respect most? What place has always kind of captured your imagination? I think for everyone it's a little bit different, but important to figure out. I think you will get the most when you can observe and be immersed in the culture that interests you most. I wouldn't worry about language barriers for any of the countries you go to, because an amazing about can come across in different languages for anyone who is of average intelligence (which you are significantly higher.) I also think considering some of how you feel in life, it can be even more impactful on you. As an aside, wherever you go, do the tourist stuff, it's fun, but also eat where locals do.

Your post was really weird to read, not because it was written badly or anything, but more since i feel i could connect with it better than i should. I have a fairly good life, but i feel like i don't like/respect myself enough to truly appreciate it. I have (and i know this is incorrect) just assumed if i achieved more then it would go away, but i don't think that's true. I'm not sure what it means, I'm not sure how to fix it nor do i really think i know the root cause of all of it. What you wrote is interesting food for thought at any rate, and i really appreciate you sharing it with everyone.

Hope things continue to get better!