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Old 12-09-2012, 03:51 PM   #401
Glanza_Mike
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Originally Posted by stasia4242 View Post
About 60%...
Ok so pretty std, i think the c/r is probably profitable in a vacuum but every time he calls you put yourself in a pretty ****ty spot being OOP there, i think just c/f'ing flop as played or 3b/5b depending on his 4bet range is better.

And hand Hand from your recent hand's is pretty damn spewy also imo.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:09 PM   #402
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Originally Posted by z0mgtiltz View Post
h1 is not wp lol.
I actually super-agree with that generally speaking Was pondering should I post it as a level or not :}

That session was "following my reads" (That was the motive of the session I mean), and the check on the river was to fold the hand, but suddenly his river sizing + timing tell made me snap shove it... I think he was really surprised (no FE obv) and it took him a while to fold that.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:10 PM   #403
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Originally Posted by Glanza_Mike View Post
Ok so pretty std, i think the c/r is probably profitable in a vacuum but every time he calls you put yourself in a pretty ****ty spot being OOP there, i think just c/f'ing flop as played or 3b/5b depending on his 4bet range is better.

And hand Hand from your recent hand's is pretty damn spewy also imo.
...?
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:35 PM   #404
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

Updated graph?
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:23 PM   #405
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Updated graph?
one of the conclusions from this thread was to post a graph once a month, gives me a better perspective and is not making me tilt when I have a bad week

Don't worry in 20 days will give a full update+summary.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:33 PM   #406
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Can u elaborate on the 97o hand? If he folds a bunch to 3bets both Pre and flop are ok as both should be +EV. Turn we give up as he won't fold anything and same goes for the river but once he bets that big and checked the turn he basically never has anything good. He could consider calling ace high but likely won't either so I don't see what exactly is bad in that hand as played

(that's all assuming villain is as bad as he looks to be)
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:05 AM   #407
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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i think it really doesnt matter whether we jam or checksnap here. if we jam AJ/AQ folds some of the time. if we check, AQ/AJ checks back some of the time, TT gets it in in both scenarios obv. question is whether its bad if he checks back as he likely pays us off on all bricks
How come he pays us off on all brick rivers ? I would expect cbet and shove turn & check turn shover river to look equally strong. Or latter even bit stronger. No one is supposed to use the bet-check-bet line as a bluff. If we check I would like to see us check the river again. That looks weak to everyone.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:08 AM   #408
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Main question here is what's his weak hand ratio, in the turn spot. It's varies hugley between types of players, but if we are looking at a loose-agg player, then usually a shove will make him to fold all of his air-hands, where a check can easily induce a bluff from at least 30% of his air+some-weird-draw range... I think by shoving we never have those here.
What hands are these ? My UTG villain starts with 16% range. AA-22,AKo-AJo,KQo,AKs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s. By the turn he only has AQ/TT.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:15 AM   #409
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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...?
Haha, hand 1*
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:14 AM   #410
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Can u elaborate on the 97o hand? If he folds a bunch to 3bets both Pre and flop are ok as both should be +EV. Turn we give up as he won't fold anything and same goes for the river but once he bets that big and checked the turn he basically never has anything good. He could consider calling ace high but likely won't either so I don't see what exactly is bad in that hand as played

(that's all assuming villain is as bad as he looks to be)
Actually villain is quite good IMO

Don't really want to elaborate on hand as I already mentioned initial check river was to fold the hand, and I really think poker-wise it's not a good move, but had my soul-read I guess...
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:16 AM   #411
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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What hands are these ? My UTG villain starts with 16% range. AA-22,AKo-AJo,KQo,AKs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s. By the turn he only has AQ/TT.
That's the beauty in poker, your UTG starts with a 16% range, and by the turn, you only have there AQ/TT

Results of AQ hand -

PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $500.00
SB: $586.70
Hero (BB): $500.00
UTG: $500.00
MP: $1,213.12
CO: $371.89

SB posts SB $2.50, Hero posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has Q A

UTG raises to $12.50, MP calls $12.50, fold, fold, SB calls $10.00, Hero raises to $61.00, UTG calls $48.50, fold, SB calls $48.50

Flop: ($195.50, 3 players) T A 4
SB checks, Hero bets $104.05, UTG calls $104.05, fold

Turn: ($403.60, 2 players) K
Hero checks, UTG bets $334.95 and is all-in, Hero calls $334.95 and is all-in

River: ($1073.50, 2 players) A

Spoiler:
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:17 AM   #412
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Haha, hand 1*
Yah, def super-spewy move there...
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:07 PM   #413
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

So... was super-aggrro session today, which luckily went to my direction.

Two hands vs the same not-so-aggrro-reg, and one hand to discuss vs Schmeffffff.

Hand 1: Oh those rivers...

PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $1,991.58
SB: $1,047.32
BB: $500.00
UTG: $500.00
MP: $232.50
CO: $1,189.35

SB posts SB $2.50, BB posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has Q 7

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $11.00, SB raises to $45.00, fold, Hero calls $34.00

Flop: ($95.00, 2 players) 6 J A
SB checks, Hero bets $61.38, SB calls $61.38

Turn: ($217.76, 2 players) 8
SB checks, Hero bets $235.42, SB calls $235.42

River: ($688.60, 2 players) 6
SB checks, Hero bets $1,649.78 and is all-in, SB calls $705.52 and is all-in

Spoiler:


This hand was quite annoying because we are actually 50-50 OTF, and he folds most of his check-call range by turn/river. Luckily the next hand came quite fast vs same villain

------------------------------------------------------

Hand 2: Oh those turns...

PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $1,645.47
SB: $521.15
BB: $261.00
Hero (UTG): $2,006.17
MP: $234.85
CO: $503.89

SB posts SB $2.50, BB posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has A 8

Hero raises to $12.50, fold, fold, BTN calls $12.50, SB raises to $55.00, fold, Hero calls $42.50, BTN calls $42.50

Flop: ($170.00, 3 players) 4 6 T
SB checks, Hero bets $120.38, BTN calls $120.38, fold

Turn: ($410.76, 2 players) 3
Hero bets $323.73, BTN calls $323.73

River: ($1058.22, 2 players) J
Hero bets $1,507.06 and is all-in, BTN calls $1,146.36 and is all-in

Spoiler:


OTF after him calling behind, I thought his range is heavily weighted towards sets/two-pair, and was puking from the thought fish in the SB would shove and leave me in a sick-spot where poker-wise I should prob just fold, and wasn't sure that Israeli-wise I can..

Luckily SB tank-folded and I could see my turn for a very cheap price.

---------------------------------------------------

For the more interesting part, as promised, sick hand vs Scchhmeffff.

PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $1,004.08
SB: $193.92
Hero (BB): $1,933.70
UTG: $500.00
MP: $500.00
CO: $1,369.97

SB posts SB $2.50, Hero posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has K 4

fold, fold, CO raises to $10.00, fold, SB calls $7.50, Hero calls $5.00

Flop: ($30.00, 3 players) Q 3 K
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $20.00, fold, Hero calls $20.00

Turn: ($70.00, 2 players) J
Hero checks, CO bets $50.00, Hero calls $50.00

River: ($170.00, 2 players) 9
Hero checks, CO bets $145.00, Hero raises to $433.03, CO raises to $1,289.97 and is all-in, Hero ???

Villain is prob the most loose reg on PS, didn't see him spew too much in the past, when we used to play HU at the 400nl 6max deep-tables.

So... River, do we donk? If so, do we call/fold to a raise? Do we Check-raise/shove? If we Check-raise, do we call/fold to a shove?

What to do, what to doooo.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:22 AM   #414
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stasia4242 View Post

Hand 1: Oh those rivers...

PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $1,991.58
SB: $1,047.32
BB: $500.00
UTG: $500.00
MP: $232.50
CO: $1,189.35

SB posts SB $2.50, BB posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has Q 7

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $11.00, SB raises to $45.00, fold, Hero calls $34.00

Flop: ($95.00, 2 players) 6 J A
SB checks, Hero bets $61.38, SB calls $61.38

Turn: ($217.76, 2 players) 8
SB checks, Hero bets $235.42, SB calls $235.42

River: ($688.60, 2 players) 6
SB checks, Hero bets $1,649.78 and is all-in, SB calls $705.52 and is all-in

Spoiler:

You rep 11 value combos OTR 66/AJ/A6. He needs to find 6 bluff combos for a snap call with Ax/Jx. KQ only is 16 combos. If you don't 4bet AQ and vbet ATs you have 26 value combos. Still a call with Ax/Jx.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:49 AM   #415
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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You rep 11 value combos OTR 66/AJ/A6.
Kinda disagree, and IMO that's the problem when you start thinking about poker exclusively that way (value combos/bluff combos etc.). Range is totally dependant on villain, again, you rep OTR 66/AJ/A6... I prob have much wider range than this... as a small example, I totally have there 86.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:02 PM   #416
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

Stas! I didnt know you were on 2p2. Cool thread, I will start from the start and read it all I think .

Gl m8!
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:39 PM   #417
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Stas! I didnt know you were on 2p2. Cool thread, I will start from the start and read it all I think .

Gl m8!
"Stasia42, 2+2er since 2006" :P

Tx mate, best of luck to you 2.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:39 PM   #418
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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Can u elaborate on the 97o hand? If he folds a bunch to 3bets both Pre and flop are ok as both should be +EV. Turn we give up as he won't fold anything and same goes for the river but once he bets that big and checked the turn he basically never has anything good. He could consider calling ace high but likely won't either so I don't see what exactly is bad in that hand as played

(that's all assuming villain is as bad as he looks to be)
You are thinking at a really low level given these hands are 500nl, not going to explain myself because trying to stop giving away free information.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:44 PM   #419
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

Ok, seems like no one cares about K4cc hand, I'll try one more time, and then would post results and move on.

"Pure" Value hands here (will always play like that): AcTc, Tc8c .
"Reasonable" Value hands here (mostly will play like this): Ac3c (almost always), AcXc (50-50 prob on cbet flop, and if cbet then always cbet turn).

"Reasonable" bluff hands (will bluff in unknown frq): AcTx.
"???" bluff hands (not sure if he makes these moves at all, and at what frq): Tc8x, Tc9x, TcJx, TcQx, TcKx.

-------------------------

I think that without the "???" hands, it's so close between calling and folding that it's actually doesn't matter what I do. I have 1:2.2 OTR..

If he uses Tc type hands as bluffs then def a call.
200nl and below prob fold vs all the regs.
400nl+ prob call vs aggro opponents, and fold vs passive opponents.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:46 PM   #420
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

I think I call almost always. You are a bit deep, but I'm generally going to assume that they're bluffing some % of the time with Acx, plus a few added % with random hands. To fold in this spot would mean you're literally only calling with the rare Axcc(You can't have T8cc here) that you have, therefore he should be shoving his Ac blocker 100% of the time. That means folding is exploitable, so unless you have some strong reads, I'd call.

Last edited by jlevu; 12-12-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:54 PM   #421
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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not going to explain myself
thats the attitude. thx for adding points to the discussion
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:53 PM   #422
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

what do you think has helped your game the most?
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:31 PM   #423
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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thats the attitude. thx for adding points to the discussion
not going to explain myself because hardly anyone on 2+2 goes into real strat anymore because they realise how detrimental it is to the games.

imagine if cardrunners was never made.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:38 PM   #424
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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not going to explain myself because hardly anyone on 2+2 goes into real strat anymore because they realise how detrimental it is to the games.

imagine if cardrunners was never made.
I hate this argument. If Cardrunners was never created how many of us would be any good at all at poker? There's a lot of things people learned through videos that they wouldn't have figured out on their own so it's not like everyone had the ability to learn how to be amazing on their own and crush everyone.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:57 PM   #425
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Re: Being a 1000NL reg by the end of 2012 [STASIA42]

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I hate this argument. If Cardrunners was never created how many of us would be any good at all at poker? There's a lot of things people learned through videos that they wouldn't have figured out on their own so it's not like everyone had the ability to learn how to be amazing on their own and crush everyone.
I think that's what he is saying?
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