Lol, you still don't call it a valuebet. It's setting up a 3barrel bluff.

I though this way too until couple days ago. Seems like Stasia can. The more I think of it, this way, the more I like it.

I don't own anybody deep, especially OOP, but IMO 86s in 200bb is better than AQo... OFC I might be wrong but that's my way of thinking.

People call looser ranges when 200bb deep with position than 100bb with position, so accordingly you can 3bet looser too.

You say Tomato…

As long as we both understand the concept in our head, u can call it "setting up a 3barrel bluff", I can call it value-betting my non-showdown graph, and someone else can call it "exploiting weak-calling-station-opponents who like to fold rivers to further aggression"

W/E

Tom-ehh-to?

Garffff4julymissingITT

Working on a long monthly summary, was kinda crazy month, will post everything prob today, maximum tomorrow...

maximum today imo

Generally speaking I tend play my top pair hands that AQ gives me the same way 100-200bb deep than I would play them 100bb deep. I just bet bigger flop and turn to set up the river shove. At 200-300bb this would start to get scary. Then I could see 86s be better than AQ vs some TAGs.

Hi stasia4242,

can you say where could I start learning deep game? I have played so far mostly 100bb games and I would like to move to deep games with antes. Any good videos or articles you can recomend?

Also, would 39/30/13 (VPIP/PFR/3bet) be ok?

thanks

The more I think everything in terms of value the more I like it.

I am not betting the nuts because I have the best hand but because it has value in it.
I am not bluffing because I don't have the best hand or I want him to fold or I think he is going to fold but because it has value in it.
I am not 3betting AA this time not because I want to "mix things up" or I want to be tricky but because this time flatting has more value in it.
I brush my teeth because there is value in not having them fall out.

+1000000

I think I took it one level higher IMO, and nowadays I think about things EV relative... For example, regarding your "not gonna 3bet Aces here..", I try to think about it as "because of current dynamics, I think flatting my aces here gives me more EV than 3betting them" (although 3betting aces will always be EV+ OBV).

The difference is somewhat non-existant, but W/E

Actually I kind of play eat by ear... The beauty of deep poker IMO is that every style, when played well, will be very profitable... 39/30 will be cool, 42/22 will be great, the only thing that prob wouldn't work is the standard 23/18

I think best way to learn about deep poker (and on the way about your own playing style) is just play it... u can start from 50NL and move up if u win. About a year ago I started building up my bankroll very fast due to 200NL deep games, where I could earn 25 bb/100 easily...

how much could nl50 reg that plays solid expect to have winrate, I know it's general question, but if you could make a guess, let's say that player have 7bb/100 on regular tables and adjust ok to deep tables, would it be bigger? how much?

Thanks

Do you think deep NL has more variance than 100bb

Depends how you adapt I guess, but I would think that if you play 50NL with 7bb/100, and you go on playing 50NL deep tables vs the same guys, then I would say it will be definitely higher, some random-lie guess would be 13bb/100.

Main point being just give it a shot you can always go back to 100bb tables. I can tell you for a fact that as soon as a regular tables becomes suddenly a deep table (mostly due to aggro fish sitting) then I think my edge goes up the roof even vs very solid regs, because I have lots of hands played at deep tables...

I actually think it has way-way less variance than 100bb tables.

Simple example would be your AK/QQ that will go all-in pre-flop way less frequently. Not to mention "standard" situation of set-vs-set, flush-vs-flush etc.

I once saw a Phil Galfond vid where he played 400NL + 600NL (I was playing 400NL then), and they absolutely crushed him. So he wraps the video earlier than he thought, semi-tilted, and then he spends the next ten minutes discussing deep poker tables vs 100bb tables, found it very interesting.

Anyways, July's summary.

Was one of the toughest months of my poker carrier, both mentally and result-wise. I added 1KNL after the first week, and 2KNL (when there was a good game. Actually, every time there was a game, cause if there is one, it must be good ), where the competition was tough, regs were good and solid (ofc not everybody, but still..) and the tables were few.

Don't want to make it a paragraph digging, so gonna try the dot approach..

Bad things that happened this month:

* EV-Expected-wise, 7000$ below EV.

* AA hand down 4k at 1KNL, on 7k hands.

* Total winrate of 4bb/100 (lowest since mid 2011).

* First losing month since started tracking my results (Since January 2011).


Good things that happened this month:

* Played a total of 64K hands (usually around 40K).

* Finally crushed 600NL, almost 9bb/100 on 17K hands.

* I feel that both my poker understanding, and my poker game are at their peak.

* I feel my mental strength is higher than ever.

* Started Legalization process of my online activity in Israel (Tax payment-wise).

===========

Bottom line = Down 3,000$, which is like 4 buy-ins, so no biggie.


Monthly Graph in $$:




Monthly Graph in BB (looks better IMO ):




At July I really wanted to take a shot, so didn't go to my exams (we have two possible exam periods), and now came August, and the second period of the same exams, which I must finish if I want this university stuff to ever end, so prob not gonna have the same volume Still, I believe I can be at least break-even at 1KNL for August, and from there on the skies are the limit.

"The end of the Challenge Thread looks closer than ever"
(random poker pro before going busto in a month) :P


And finally, please welcome.... give her some love... Favourite hand of the month!!


PokerStars - $4 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $423.84
Hero (BTN): $482.65
SB: $1,123.56
BB: $429.82
UTG: $765.20
MP: $400.00

SB posts SB $2.00, BB posts BB $4.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero has A Q

UTG raises to $10.00, MP calls $10.00, fold, Hero calls $10.00, fold, BB raises to $36.00, UTG calls $26.00, MP calls $26.00, Hero raises to $102.00, fold, fold, fold

Hero wins $146.00


Hihi

They all had AJ

Did a small poker break due to massive exam period + figured I played too many hands in July, which gave the regs the opportunity to know me better, and figure out ways to exploit my obvious leaks (I'm Israeli so like to call / spew).

Anyways... Still I feel kinda obligated to play a Saturday sess, so here's some interesting / weird hands from yesterday...


Hand 1: Vs great reg


PokerStars - $10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $1,989.00
UTG: $1,000.00
CO: $503.87
BTN: $1,000.00
SB: $1,230.24

SB posts SB $5.00, Hero posts BB $10.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero has T Q

fold, fold, BTN raises to $20.00, SB raises to $80.00, Hero raises to $192.00, fold, SB raises to $350.00, Hero calls $158.00

Flop: ($720.00, 2 players) 2 Q 9
SB bets $210.00, Hero calls $210.00

Turn: ($1140.00, 2 players) 9
SB checks, Hero bets $1,429.00 and is all-in, fold

Hero wins $1,137.00

Was kinda tightish on the specific table, and both other villains were very active on the table (both regs) so figured it's a nice spot to take some easy $$ , SB tanked for a bit and prob realized what I'm doing..


Hand 2: Vs an OK-reg



PokerStars - $10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $2,576.00
UTG: $1,000.00
MP: $468.87
CO: $1,050.00
BTN: $1,210.00
SB: $1,000.00

SB posts SB $5.00, Hero posts BB $10.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero has 3 3

UTG raises to $20.00, fold, CO calls $20.00, fold, fold, Hero calls $10.00

Flop: ($65.00, 3 players) 8 3 9
Hero checks, UTG bets $46.56, CO raises to $150.00, Hero raises to $296.57, fold, CO calls $146.57

Turn: ($704.70, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, CO bets $190.00, Hero calls $190.00

River: ($1084.70, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, CO checks



This hand was really weird... plan on turn was to check-fold (couldn't find a single hand that I beat with this turn), but his sizing was so... River plan was to check-call any bet/shove.

Weird hand because I always try to stick to my hand-plan, and this was one of the few hands in the last year where I drastically changed my plan 3 times during the hand.


And for last "MEH" hand, vs a decent reg who kinda played it bad IMO...

PokerStars - $10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $1,163.10
MP: $1,161.21
CO: $698.14
Hero (BTN): $1,351.52
SB: $1,051.74
BB: $1,547.82

SB posts SB $5.00, BB posts BB $10.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero has 7 7

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $22.00, SB raises to $66.00, BB calls $56.00, Hero calls $44.00

Flop: ($198.00, 3 players) 5 4 7
SB bets $111.00, fold, Hero raises to $312.01, SB calls $201.01

Turn: ($822.02, 2 players) 6
SB bets $333.00, Hero raises to $973.51 and is all-in, SB calls $340.73 and is all-in

River: ($2169.48, 2 players) 3

requesting yearly giraffe

Do you think villain is ever checking Q+ OTT ? Even with the board pairing. You probably don't call 5bets alot with 9x hands. Spot where he is always giving up or has JJ and does not know what to do.


Is your flop cr range just sets ? What do you do with nfd OTF ?

First hand I don't really know how villain plays, but his turn check seemed weak to me, esp how the hand was played pre. Just thought from beginning he doesn't have AA/KK..

33 hand Not sure if I want to comment on the fd, but would prob re-raise 98 as well due to high-set-blockers...

in the first hand why not check back and try to induce?

as played you guarantee that you lose your stack if he happens to have you beat and you make it difficult for him to put in money if he's behind, unless you think he might hero call.

why not bet something like 220 to rep a float and hope he does something stupid? not very likely but i don't see the benefit of shoving.

Vs tight regs my range here is just sets. I don't mind pre just to set mine w pps 3way. But I do mind if I try just to hit the flop with 98s. Fold or sqz if I think they fold enough. Just noticed that UTG min raised. Then it is a call or sqz. If you make it 120. It has to work ( 110/110+55 = 0,66) 66% of the time to show immediately profit. Will UTG fold enough of his range ? Flat caller will.

Tightis 16% UTG open range: AA-22,AKo-AJo,KQo,AKs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s

If he only continues with AA-TT,AKo-AQo,AKs-AJs,KQs. Then it is really close. If he opens wider than 16% because he is min raising then 3betting is even better.

If I just called pre I do not have a very sound strategy vs regs with my whole range. There is probably two balanced strategies in this spot.

A) CR 99/88/33 ( 9combos ) and AJcc-A2cc ( 10combos ). Bet half pot on blanks. Re-evaluate river. Check sets on turn. Check X amount of the time Axcc ( maybe all the time ? )
B) CC 99/88/33/AJcc-A2cc. Same turn. Allows you to CC TT aswell. No need to balance because of mid pairs or weak tps cause I fold them pre vs std size UTG open. Vs min raise then this line protects them better.

Bottom line play your AJcc-A2cc in the same way you would play your sets. I am going to use plan B. Not balancing just because of balance. But because it has value in it vs regs.

Checking behind is not a good move IMO, cause it seems a lot stronger than my shove, and he'll bet rivers when he's ahead, and cf even more often than turn when he's behind.

Betting 220 is a nice idea that might work but again, I think he will call with J/AK a shove more often than a 220 bet, but again, these spots are all about guessing, so I don't think there is a "Right" move, and u need to play every time how it feels vs specific opponent.