Absolutely agree with tiltz. Turn reraise would be rly lol and u want to allow him to shovel money in there with his bluffs. Once he does I think a lot of value is to be had there even if he doesn't bet call all of his (2p/) set kinda hands.
Then again actually I m not sure he has aaaall that many bluffs on the turn after ur raise that will continue so his range actually is really strong and obv u re crushing that so given that u can click it back. But then again I he has sets and the occasional straight u can as well wait but deffo raise all bricky rivers and the ace is one of those imo (just like any (T J Q K 9)
Turn 4bet would be silly
Shove this river. Reason is cause you have the effective nuts.
Edit: Well, it would be silly for your range. It wouldn't be silly with certain dynamics where you think villain is more likely to be airballing with his 3betting range and would more likely 5b bluff the turn rather than bluff rivers.
Edit2: Whether villain would b/c a set is another matter but you're beat only that 1% of the time that he misclicked 57s pre, and IME, no one likes folding a set on a rainbow board when you rep absolutely nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakkman08
Absolutely agree with tiltz. Turn reraise would be rly lol and u want to allow him to shovel money in there with his bluffs. Once he does I think a lot of value is to be had there even if he doesn't bet call all of his (2p/) set kinda hands.
Then again actually I m not sure he has aaaall that many bluffs on the turn after ur raise that will continue so his range actually is really strong and obv u re crushing that so given that u can click it back. But then again I he has sets and the occasional straight u can as well wait but deffo raise all bricky rivers and the ace is one of those imo (just like any (T J Q K 9)
Turn:($554.40, 2 players) 9 SB bets $284.00, Hero raises to $544.00 and is all-in, SB calls $260.00
River:($1642.40, 2 players) Q
Spoiler:
SB shows 8 T (Straight, Queen High) (Pre 39%, Flop 20%, Turn 100%) Hero shows A Q (Three of a Kind, Queens) (Pre 61%, Flop 80%, Turn 0%) SB wins $1,640.90
Villain runs on 48-37, aggressive, 17% 4bet after RFI, doesn't fold to 3bet. Kinda happy with the way I played, and it seems to me just UL unless someone thinks differently..?
Here I'm less happy with the way I played it It seems to me that I have enough odds + implied odds to flat turn, with the intention of shoving river on hits.
I had dynamics with this guy and the chance of him 4-betting light was really high.
I float the flop with two overs and some backdoor outs IP i really see no other way to play it on the flop and preflop?
On the turn i have enough equity for a call again i think (can't calculate this shiat), but was thinking if a shove is better, as he will have alot of Ax hands that's gonna fold to a shove but beats me when i miss, and when the river bricks like it did, i don't know if i can bluff at it because he can have alot of hands that he willl check/call with? Maybe he's even check/calling with AA because he's a NL50 player that's not playing near optimal?
So generally the spot is like this:
We hit enough outs on the turn to call and we have pretty much FE, we still have good implied odds for a call, but if we miss we have to give up, is a turn shove better? Guess this hand is a little different from yours but.
I had dynamics with this guy and the chance of him 4-betting light was really high.
I float the flop with two overs and some backdoor outs IP i really see no other way to play it on the flop and preflop?
On the turn i have enough equity for a call again i think (can't calculate this shiat), but was thinking if a shove is better, as he will have alot of Ax hands that's gonna fold to a shove but beats me when i miss, and when the river bricks like it did, i don't know if i can bluff at it because he can have alot of hands that he willl check/call with? Maybe he's even check/calling with AA because he's a NL50 player that's not playing near optimal?
So generally the spot is like this:
We hit enough outs on the turn to call and we have pretty much FE, we still have good implied odds for a call, but if we miss we have to give up, is a turn shove better? Guess this hand is a little different from yours but.
Tricky spot.. I think shoving turn is OK, not super, as played I'll prob call turn fold river... best play IMO is folding the flop
Couple of hands from yesterday and today, this time I will try to emphasise how do I tilt people Will focus on a good reg called Pmatt0 , good player, and a Canadian :P
He runs on 32-28, agg, 12% 3bet etc. Hands are in chronological order.
I might be wrong with me thinking that he shoves tons of missed rivers, but my justification for this statement comes from me calling a wide-range on flop+turn, and fold to river shove when I miss/don't improve = He shoves rightly most rivers.
What hands are these ? AQdx-xd/AJdx-xd/JJ-TT/9x ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stasia4242
I beat his Qx lower kicker, all of his Ace type hands with club, most of his Ace type hands without club, and some weird combos that turn themselves into a river bluff (KcTw/e etc.).
At lower limits all you have is a bluff catcher. Bluff catcher that I would call 100% of the time. Here lower Qx checks back a the turn. Ax checks back the river cause it is afraid of trips. Still never ever folding
Quote:
Originally Posted by stasia4242
4betting pre for value seems kinda the standard here, but I felt he's gonna shove on top of me pretty wide range, didn't want to go to a 45-55 flip + I go to flop dominating his K/Q and not the other way around. In the specific dynamics I preffered just flatting and aiming for showdown.
TBH I never 4bet KQ in this spot. Still wondering which is more +EV ? Are you planning to float oop /cr some flops that you miss ? We cannot entirely rely on the SD value K-high has.
Rather not discuss my full range here, but it's much wider than what u wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenal
At lower limits all you have is a bluff catcher. Bluff catcher that I would call 100% of the time. Here lower Qx checks back a the turn. Ax checks back the river cause it is afraid of trips. Still never ever folding
Even if it's only bluff catching I think he has tons of bluffs becuase I can't really rep a strong hand with the pre-flop action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomenal
TBH I never 4bet KQ in this spot. Still wondering which is more +EV ? Are you planning to float oop /cr some flops that you miss ? We cannot entirely rely on the SD value K-high has.
I'm gonna play poker OOP is so over-rated as a weak position...
Flop and turn bets are for value, river prob gonna shove any river except A/T/J where I go to check-call mode to induce.
How can you call flop & turn value bets ? As a bluff vs pocket pairs I would understand. Don't see worse Ax calling alot. Just because he has small some of the time these are value bets ? You have the ace of aswell. OTR he turns more pairs into bluff than calls a river shove ?
How can you call flop & turn value bets ? As a bluff vs pocket pairs I would understand. Don't see worse Ax calling alot. Just because he has small some of the time these are value bets ? You have the ace of aswell. OTR he turns more pairs into bluff than calls a river shove ?
I call it value bets not because I'm stronger than him currently, but because he's gonna fold to river shove most of the time, and I get huge value from him calling flop+turn and folding river...
Hi GL with your challenge, nice to read the HHs and thoughts. Pokerstars regs play pretty crazy it seems. Much more aggressive preflop especially, not been in a game where I can cold 4b KQ for value!
Hand 1
- How happy are you cbetting here? I'd be tempted to c/ back with equity and a bit of showdown value. Is this too weak? I just think we have so little fold equity when we bet.
Your plan for the river (last hand) for every card except a deuce? Clubs, total blank, Ace?
Rather not discuss it here, but generally speaking, with my raise flop+bet turn range in this spot, I can easily check behind / bet 4 value / shove 4 value/bluff. Not so informative I guess..
Hi GL with your challenge, nice to read the HHs and thoughts. Pokerstars regs play pretty crazy it seems. Much more aggressive preflop especially, not been in a game where I can cold 4b KQ for value!
Hand 1
- How happy are you cbetting here? I'd be tempted to c/ back with equity and a bit of showdown value. Is this too weak? I just think we have so little fold equity when we bet.
Generally speaking, I think that when u r in a big pot with position, cbetting is kind of a MUST. In this spot I'm more than happy cbetting, because I def see lot's of folds by him+ if board comes brick-brick, I can always bet turn, shove river and mathematically make $$ from his folds on the way.
I call it value bets not because I'm stronger than him currently, but because he's gonna fold to river shove most of the time, and I get huge value from him calling flop+turn and folding river...
Villain runs on 48-37, aggressive, 17% 4bet after RFI, doesn't fold to 3bet. Kinda happy with the way I played, and it seems to me just UL unless someone thinks differently..?
Why are we 3betting 8-high vs some one who does not fold to 3bet and 4bets ****loads of hands? He folds too much on some later street ? I would 3bet absurd amount of high card hands plus pocket pairs but would call small suited connectors. Not a great bluff imo but good spot to widen your value range to lot of high card hands.
Why are we 3betting 8-high vs some one who does not fold to 3bet and 4bets ****loads of hands? He folds too much on some later street ? I would 3bet absurd amount of high card hands plus pocket pairs but would call small suited connectors. Not a great bluff imo but good spot to widen your value range to lot of high card hands.
Exactly, we are 200bb deep here... plus, the guy doesn't 4bet too wide, so 3betting my hand is kind of a must. From the other hand, calling his 4bet OOP is def not a MUST
Exactly, we are 200bb deep here... plus, the guy doesn't 4bet too wide, so 3betting my hand is kind of a must. From the other hand, calling his 4bet OOP is def not a MUST
Being deep makes it worst in my eyes. I want people to fold when I 3bet scs. I think it is bad if I 3bet with 100bb someone OOP with 86s who never folds to 3bets. Twice as bad if it is 200bb deep. You count 86s as some super nutty hand post flop when it hits ? That allows you to get in 200bb deep always good post. Or you just own people deep and make them fold too much at some point ?