Hey guys, I'm pretty new to poker in general but I enjoy playing cash games (both live or online).

I'm going to play on pokerstars.pt (PT/ES/FR pool) and 888poker (same countries). I've skimmed a bit through The Grinders Manual and I'm currently watching Run It Once's From the Ground Up. I'm not a big fan of learning via books but I'm enjoying the course and learning a lot.
My main goal is to get better at the game and learn theory/exploits to beat the games I play in. If I somehow manage to get a consistent winrate I would like to go from my starting bankroll (60€) to around 50NL, taking shots at higher stakes whenever I have 25/30 BI for them.

The first few sessions at 2NL reg tables were great. I'm not playing a lot of volume because I'm not very comfortable playing 4+ reg tables yet, so I typically play 3 tables if the games are good or 2 tables if there aren't many good tables open. Still, in the first 400ish hands I'm 2 buy-ins up.



I would like to ask for some advice:

1. How did you get better at multi tabling? Is there a trick or just mostly experience?
2. How do you review your own hands at these stakes? I don't own a solver so should I just try to think through the spots and make sure I made the best decision?
3. About software, I'm using DriveHud because it was the cheapest and seemed decent enough. Would PT4 make a big difference and should I maybe save up to buy it?

For now I guess this is it, I will be updating the bankroll/graph once a week and posting some hands.
I would also like to apologize for some English mistakes I probably made or will make, it's not my first language.

Thank you,
andremmsilva

Hello, andremmsilva!

1. More experience than tricks.
Just try adding another table when you don't have much action and you feel like you're getting bored.
Or just try playing 4 tables, you might not notice much of a difference.

There is also an option to try to play at 5-6 tables, after that 4 tables will definitely seem like nothing to you

2. At the initial stage, when you do not have much experience and theoretical knowledge, it is best to post hands for evaluation on the forum in order to find out the thoughts of other users.

3. If DriveHud suits you, then I see no reason to switch to another software. According to my observations, many players of both low and high limits use this software.

Good luck!

As promised, here are the results as of today. I've switched to H2N simply because it's free and I prefer the layout of it.



So, as you can see, I'm officially a losing player
Despite the graph, my BR is actually up because of a free ticket to a 5€ spin which netted me 25€. However, I feel like I could definetly be playing better. I had a couple of great sessions where I felt really in tune with the game and felt like I was making the right decisions and getting the results I wanted. There were others (like today's), that felt like everytime I made a hand, someone made a better one. I've been told to believe in agression at these stakes and it does seem like the right way to play, however I feel like I get quite tilted/discouraged whenever an unknown fish in zoom pools raises my 2 pair / TPTK on the river when the draws hit for the 5th time in a row.

I'm going to be posting some stats, however I'm not sure 2k hands is enough for any severe imbalances to show up.



Do you guys think any of the stats are already "super wrong"? Maybe my Fold vs. Cbet is a bit too high and I should try to raise a bit more on the flop.

With all this said, I'd like to ask for some advice:

1. How do I find where my leaks are? I feel like I'm not playing my best game, however I'm not experienced enough to tell where things are going wrong.
2. Should I continue playing zoom or really focus on reg tables like I did at first? I like the volume that comes with it, and I find it strangely easier to play 2 tables of zoom than 4 reg tables, however the lack of table dynamics and the time it takes to build samples on opponents is hard to get accustumed to.

Also, should I post some hands here? If so, how do I filter? Just pick the ones where the most money was involved?

Thank you to everyone in advance,
andremmsilva

I'm sorry, it seems like I didn't see your reply xD.

1 - Yeah, this week I've definetly gotten more used to it. I guess it's all experience really.

2 - Will do, thank you.

3 - I've switched to H2N because it seemed to be pretty easy to configure and use, and the free plan is really all that I need for now. Although DriveHud was also pretty decent.

Thank you and GL to you too!

sample is super small but 74% fold to flop cbet is criminal

of course you're a losing player, you never knew how to play poker and jumped in after watching a few videos

It makes little sense to analyze the base from 2k hands. Let's get at least 20-30k.

You can read this thread to understand what to look for - https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...thread-158015/

I also recently did a small review of the database of one of the users - https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...5&postcount=10

I can do something similar for you when your database is bigger.

In the second link that I gave above, I clearly explained why it is better to play reg tables.

Posting hands in which there are doubts.
Usually, these are the hands marked during the session.

Posting big losses is also not a bad idea.
This may be an obvious cooler for you (and most likely it is), but among them, there may be hands where you could lose less.

Haven't posted in a while. After losing a bunch and being busy with university, I decided to take a break, started reading some books like Michael Acevedo's "Modern Poker Theory" and decided to rewatch From The Ground Up, taking notes and trying to apply the concepts to real game scenarios.

Eventually re-deposited on 888poker and the last week has been great. Still a small sample (1k hands) but im 5 buyins up.
I've started posting some hands in the Strategy section of the forum and plan to keep doing so. I've also started using GTOBase (like GTOWizard but free) to study the most common spots from a theory point of view. I find that it's nice to know how I would play against a balanced opponent, and then think about how I should deviate against someone that calls too much or folds too much.

Anyway, here is this week's graph so far. I'll try to update the thread regularly.


I started out 2-tabling or 1 tabling zoom, reviewing pretty much every hand that saw a flop to make sure I had the basics down.
Yesterday and today I started 4-tabling reg tables to a decent amount of success.

Todays session:


With all that said, I'm running well above EV, and this has been a very small sample. I feel confident, but definetly want to put in some more volume before even thinking about moving up. I'm probably going to try out ACR, since there aren't a ton of players on my 888 pool and often I can't find more than 3 reg tables open. The rakeback on ACR is also attractive, although I've heard that the opponents are a bit less "soft". If anyone has any thoughts or experience on ACR microstakes I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks for all the help so far,
andremmsilva

About your stats:

Get decent preflop ranges. MP and CO seems too loose, BTN criminally low. Sample size maybe, but this is important imho.
Fold to cbet on the flop is not much a matter of raising more (ofc you should be raising enough, but defending by calling is important also). You can get away with overfolding (not at such a criminal level) and still beat 2nl, 5nl and 10nl comfortably, but better to learn it the right way from the start.
There are a few other leaks that might actually be optimal at 2nl as far as I remember, like low turn agg% so don´t worry by now.
3bet more from the BB, way more, your % is too low.

Not sure how you'd know what are good stats if you´re a beginner with no experience. Maybe get what the biggest winners of your limit are doing and use that as a role model? There are tracking sites with this info for free (not sure if I can, or should, post it here though).

E.g.: This is someone that won at 14.3 bb/100 over 4m hands of nl2, pokerstars.

Player:********

vpip 20, pfr 17, 3bet 8.2, fold23b 44, 4bet range 3.6, WTSD 30, WWSF 44, W$SD 55

rfi utg: 19
rfi mp: 20
rfi co: 27
rfi btn 43
rfi sb 47

cbet flop/turn/river: 53/57/52
IP: 65/55/53
OOP: 41/60/51
fold vs cbet flop/turn/river: 58/35/40
IP: 58/33/38
OOP: 58/37/42

Agg by street %: 33/30/25


Not saying this is good for all stakes, but might be optimal for the lowest.


Cheers

From the ground up is good imho, but might require a lot of rewatches and some experience to really catch it (true for any course). Make the best use of the essential vids. Old but ishter11 (Cameron Couch) is the GOAT Watch everything from him. Lots and lots of live play, which is not exactly the best to learn, but he talks EVERY DECISION, and very, very clearly. Would recommend slowing it down or going back all the time to make sure you see everything as he 3-4 tables zoom. Might be hectic for you if you can´t even play that much by yourself, but nothing that patience, reducing the vid speed, or as I said going back all the time, can´t solve.

Reviewing hands by yourself is the best, but also requires some experience. Having the rio essential sub, you might want to look at how the guys there do it. And post on the forums as slyless suggested.

Thanks for the input. I really think it was just sample size when I posted. I need to get more volume before getting too into stats. I've pretty much doubled my played hands and fold vs. cbet is now around 55, and the RFI data is more or less what you suggest. I use the 10NL charts by Pete Clarke, sometimes I'll tighten up if the blinds are overcalling or I'll loosen up if everyone is tighter. I do need to 3-Bet more, especially from the BB.

Updating the thread with the results by the end of the week.
I wanted to play a bit more on the weekend but I was busy with university and spent some time with my family. Still, I got in 3.1k hands this week, which isn't too much, but I'm pleased with the results. I'm 6.5 buy-ins up, and, while I'm running well over EV, I feel like I'm playing pretty well.

Here's the graph:


And here are the results by game type:


The first zoom 6-max format is the PokerStars.pt zoom. I started off pretty bad, I felt like everyone was a big nit with only the nuts but I've gotten more used to the pool, started bluffing a bit more and calling with less questionable bluffcatchers. My EV isn't great but compared to the last month I'm doing a lot better and want to continue to improve and win more.

On the 888 zoom I've played way less hands since they don't allow HUDs and I really prefer the reg tables. The winrate is good but it's too small of a sample to be anything worth noting.
The regular 6-max tables I feel like I'm really crushing. On the 888 client they are very soft, filled with loose fish, calling stations and massive whales who love to dust off stacks. My only problem is that the pool is so small that sometimes there are only 2 or 3 tables open, making it harder to get volume.
I want to try out ACR since from what I've seen, there are a ton of tables open at all times. The 27% rakeback is also quite attractive since as you can see, I've payed nearly half my winnings in rake.

Regarding stats and overall play, I'm folding way too much to 3-Bets. I get that against passive fish you are supposed to overfold, but I need to call more often with high implied odds hands and, against unknowns I need to defend a bit closer to theory.

Anyway, this has been it. The goals for next week are to get more than 5k hands in, try out ACR (if anyone has any experience at 2/5/10NL reg tables I'd appreciate it) and study some more common spots (mainly BB defense and probably start looking at some 3-Bet pots).

Thank you for reading,
andremmsilva

just stick to one site. no point spreading across lots of pools until you're winning at a decent amount anyway

yeah that does make sense, maybe I will just stick to the ones I play on, thank you

Have been taking a pretty big beating lately on pokerstars zoom, considering maybe sticking to reg tables, although I feel like it's been mostly variance.
I'm going to post some hands that I assume are just unlucky but maybe you would play them a bit differently.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - €0.01/€0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: €1.48 (74 bb)
MP: €1.95 (98 bb)
CO: €3.60 (180 bb) (42/26, tagged as a fish, small sample)
BU: €0.36 (18 bb)
SB: €0.72 (36 bb)
BB (Hero): €2.32 (116 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.03) Hero is BB with J♦ J♣
2 players fold, CO calls €0.02, 2 players fold, Hero raises to €0.08, CO calls €0.06

Flop: (€0.17) T♣ 7♦ K♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets €0.08, Hero calls €0.08

Turn: (€0.33) 2♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets €0.16, Hero calls €0.16

River: (€0.65) 4♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets €0.62, BB (Hero) folds

Total pot: €0.65 (Rake: €0.03)
CO wins €0.62





On this next one I just tend to assume they have the flush, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think 2NL players would bluff AdX for all their chips on the river.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - €0.01/€0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: €1.29 (65 bb)
MP (Hero): €2.11 (106 bb)
CO: €2.49 (125 bb)
BU: €2.37 (119 bb)
SB: €3.13 (157 bb)
BB: €4.19 (210 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.03) Hero is MP with A♠ 8♠
UTG calls €0.02, Hero raises to €0.05, CO calls €0.05, 1 fold, SB calls €0.04, 1 fold, UTG calls €0.03

Flop: (€0.22) J♦ K♣ Q♠ (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (€0.22) T♦ (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets €0.14, CO calls €0.14, 2 players fold

River: (€0.50) 2♦ (2 players)
Hero bets €0.16, CO raises to €2.30 (all-in), MP (Hero) folds

Total pot: €0.82 (Rake: €0.04)
CO wins €0.78




Here it just felt very Kx heavy, I used to not be able to get away from these spots and always get shown KQ or KJs or AK. Would you ever call here? We block AK but I don't think that's very relevant.


PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - €0.01/€0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: €4.60 (230 bb) (25/19, low AF)
MP: €0.81 (41 bb)
CO: €2.27 (114 bb)
BU (Hero): €2.06 (103 bb)
SB: €3.10 (155 bb)
BB: €11.06 (553 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.03) Hero is BTN with A♠ A♣
UTG raises to €0.06, 2 players fold, Hero 3-bets to €0.18, 2 players fold, UTG calls €0.12

Flop: (€0.39) K♦ K♥ 9♣ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets €0.09, UTG raises to €0.26, Hero calls €0.17

Turn: (€0.91) 2♦ (2 players)
UTG bets €0.57, Hero calls €0.57

River: (€2.05) 4♣ (2 players)
UTG bets €1.95, BU (Hero) folds

Total pot: €2.05 (Rake: €0.10)
UTG wins €1.95

Overall it's been pretty tough, I'm still winning but I've been getting in some pretty tough spots. I might just stick to reg tables for now, at least until I'm a lot more confident in my game. On the other hand, I've not been tilting too much, rather I've actually enjoyed some of these folds?? Not sure if that's wierd, but I like the analytical process of going from "I have the best hand always" to, when the flush hits and the fish re-raises all in, being able to fold because his range barely has any bluffs there.

That's it for today, sorry if my english wasn't the best in the previous paragraph and thanks for reading,
andremmsilva

At the last hand where you have AA you can always also check back the flop on KK9

Don´t think we´re supposed to xb anything on KK9r 3bp.

yeah I looked at the gtobase reports for the spot and it range bets for 1/3 pot. did the rest of the hands seem fine?

H1: Fine as played with the info you posted, when he goes psb otr. Knowing a bit more about the fish would help, as calling earlier streets vs a maniac who doesn´t like to stop betting, to fold later, is usually a bad idea.

H2: Bigger OTT, bigger OTR. I think you still have v. good equity vs his range when you arrive on the river. Would still b/f river though.

H3: Good fold on the river. Considering the other datapoints suggesting he has a very narrow, value heavy range here (UTG, call 3b, passive), I think turn is already very close. In my experience, other than the A obv (bc then we´re always calling the shove), the river bringing the flush would make him check a lot, and we could win rarely by x/x and hopefully get reads in the unlikely scenario that he made smth silly like triple range merging etc

Sorry, I didn't see the reply. Yeah I agree with Hand 2, maybe even overbet turn?

Thanks a lot for the input, I'll be posting the graph and maybe some more hands this week

Hey there! I'm gonna sub to this.

I've had a quick skim over the posts and I don't have time to say a lot right now but one big thing I will say is try not to get bogged down with how you're doing over 2-3k hand samples. They are literally nothing as far as a sample goes. Focus more on just learning to play spots with understanding. Larger sample sizes will tell you things like how you're red line is doing overall, like you might be losing in thousands of small pots that you could win instead.

Try not to focus on short term results and just get stuck into studying as you play and hopefully the results will naturally follow over time. Remember to take it at a good pace and don't focus on a graph result after a single session, if you continue to do that then it will eat away at you mentally in the wrong way.

But I wish you the best of fortune and hope you can stick it out.

Discipline is your friend!

Yeah, as I’ve learned more about the way the game works the more I’m realizing that xD. I’ve been playing with a variance calculator and it’s really crazy how much it affects everything. That being said, how big of a sample do you think is “big enough” to tell a winner from a loser at a stake? 20/30k or even more?

Thanks for replying and sorry for any typos, I’m on my old android
andremmsilva

Hey guys,
The week has been going great. I'm getting pretty comfortable multi-tabling and I'm trying to play at least 500 hands a day. I've been winning at a decent amount and the sample is getting bigger.
I'm not going to post the graph yet as I want to reach 10k hands before posting. Meanwhile, I basically switched to only playing on 888. The pool is small enough to build good samples but big enough that in the evening I can 4/5 table for a couple hours without many problems.
I wanted to ask the more experienced grinders a question - when you are playing 4/5/6 tables, do you always remove the short-handed ones? I can manage 5 tables but if some games start breaking and the tables have like 3-4 players it's very overwhelming and I usually just close the table and look for a full one.

I'm going to post some hands, they are not particularly interesting, but I want to know if I got the fundamentals right.

888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - €0.01/€0.02 - 4 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: €0.57 (29 bb) (36/20/12, AF 2)
BU: €0.88 (44 bb)
SB: €2.69 (135 bb)
BB (Hero): €2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.03) Hero is BB with T♦ Q♦
UTG raises to €0.05, 2 players fold, Hero calls €0.03

Flop: (€0.11) 8♥ 2♠ T♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets €0.03, Hero calls €0.03

Turn: (€0.17) 4♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets €0.10, Hero calls €0.10

River: (€0.37) J♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets €0.20, Hero calls €0.20

Total pot: €0.77 (Rake: €0.05)

Showdown:
UTG shows 8♠ 8♦ (three of a kind, Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 51%, Flop: 97%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

BB (Hero) mucks T♦ Q♦ (a pair of Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 49%, Flop: 3%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

UTG wins €0.72

I don't really like calling fish down on 3 streets with only one pair, but he was betting so small and was being pretty splashy so I don't think it was very bad.





888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - €0.01/€0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: €3.28 (164 bb)
MP: €1.02 (51 bb)
CO (Hero): €2.00 (100 bb)
BU: €3.86 (193 bb)
SB: €2.13 (107 bb)
BB: €2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.03) Hero is CO with A♦ A♣
1 fold, MP calls €0.02, Hero raises to €0.08, 2 players fold, BB calls €0.06, MP calls €0.06

Flop: (€0.25) 7♦ Q♣ 9♥ (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets €0.08, BB calls €0.08, MP calls €0.08

Turn: (€0.49) 8♦ (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets €0.24, BB calls €0.24, MP raises to €0.86 (all-in), Hero raises to €1.84 (all-in), BB folds

River: (€2.45) 8♣ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: €2.45 (Rake: €0.15)

Showdown:
CO (Hero) shows A♦ A♣ (two pair, Aces and Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 81%, Flop: 76%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

MP shows T♥ 6♥ (a straight, Six to Ten)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 24%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

MP wins €2.30

On this one I feel like I should just fold. I wasn't expecting this exact combo but looking back he can easily have JT, two-pairs, sets... and I'm going to have much better hands with good blockers to call with. Thoughts?





888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - €0.01/€0.02 - 5 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: €2.17 (109 bb)
CO: €1.33 (67 bb)
BU: €4.30 (215 bb)
SB (Hero): €2.15 (108 bb)
BB: €1.63 (82 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.03) Hero is SB with J♥ A♠
1 fold, CO calls €0.02, BTN raises to €0.04, Hero 3-bets to €0.20, 2 players fold, BTN calls €0.16

Flop: (€0.44) 2♥ 6♦ 4♥ (2 players)
Hero bets €0.22, BTN calls €0.22

Turn: (€0.88) T♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (€0.88) J♦ (2 players)
Hero bets €0.29, BTN calls €0.29

Total pot: €1.46 (Rake: €0.07)

Showdown:
SB (Hero) shows J♥ A♠ (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 47%, Flop: 27%, Turn: 14%, River: 100%)

BU mucks 3♦ 3♣ (a pair of Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 53%, Flop: 73%, Turn: 86%, River: 0%)

SB (Hero) wins €1.39

I haven't studied 3-Bet pots yet so this hand is probably very wrong. I don't really know what to do when I miss the flop, what sizes to use etc... I've checked it on gtobase and it wants to go large or check on the flop which makes sense and larger on the river. I had this guy tagged as a nit, so I wasn't very sure what his range was, I can't say I expected 33 xd.

Thanks for reading everyone,
andremmsilva

AJ hand looks fine, bet bigger on river is good, flop sizing is fine.