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Old 11-08-2011, 11:30 PM   #126
DREAM333R
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Bad idea to play poker tonight, keep and keep losing... And more i lose more tilted i feel and make bad decisions, lost 4bi, here is few damn hands, discuss please...

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $2.81
Hero (CO): $5.37
BTN: $7.71
SB: $10.00
BB: $16.32

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has J Q

fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.37, 2 players) 9 J Q
Hero bets $0.25, BTN calls $0.25

Turn: ($0.87, 2 players) 2
Hero bets $0.55, BTN calls $0.55

River: ($1.97, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.85, Hero calls $0.85

BTN shows 9 T (Flush, Queen High) (PreFlop 36%, Flop 54%, Turn 39%)
Hero mucks J Q (Two Pair, Queens and Jacks) (PreFlop 64%, Flop 46%, Turn 61%)
BTN wins $3.50


...


PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $1.71
BB: $10.08
UTG: $3.99
MP: $5.26
CO: $5.28
Hero (BTN): $6.65

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has Q Q

fold, MP raises to $0.15, fold, Hero raises to $0.45, SB raises to $1.71 and is all-in, fold, MP raises to $5.26 and is all-in, Hero calls $4.81

Flop: ($12.28, 3 players) 2 7 9

Turn: ($12.28, 3 players) T

River: ($12.28, 3 players) J

MP shows K K (One Pair, Kings) (PreFlop 57%, Flop 74%, Turn 88%)
Hero shows Q Q (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 18%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
SB shows A K (High Card, Ace) (PreFlop 25%, Flop 17%, Turn 7%)
MP wins $11.67

should have fold? f*ck knows..

...

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $6.02
Hero (BB): $5.00
UTG: $5.52
MP: $6.93
CO: $2.35
BTN: $6.01

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 9 2

fold, fold, CO calls $0.05, fold, SB calls $0.03, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.15, 3 players) 2 9 5
SB bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.60, fold, SB raises to $1.05, Hero calls $0.45

Turn: ($2.25, 2 players) 6
SB bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

River: ($3.85, 2 players) A
SB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

SB shows A 9 (Two Pair, Aces and Nines) (PreFlop 78%, Flop 31%, Turn 20%)
Hero shows 9 2 (Two Pair, Nines and Twos) (PreFlop 22%, Flop 69%, Turn 80%)
SB wins $6.52

incredible, i dont even know how i got in to thart hand...

...

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $5.40
SB: $5.09
BB: $11.46
Hero (UTG): $8.75
CO: $6.10

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has K K

Hero raises to $0.15, fold, BTN calls $0.15, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.47, 3 players) T J 7
BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, BTN raises to $0.73, BB calls $0.73, Hero raises to $2.71, BTN raises to $5.25 and is all-in, BB raises to $11.31 and is all-in, Hero calls $5.89 and is all-in

Turn: ($22.92, 3 players) T

River: ($22.92, 3 players) 9

BB shows A 7 (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens) (PreFlop 29%, Flop 30%, Turn 0%)
Hero shows K K (Two Pair, Kings and Tens) (PreFlop 53%, Flop 6%, Turn 5%)
BTN shows J J (Full House, Jacks full of Tens) (PreFlop 18%, Flop 64%, Turn 95%)
BTN wins $15.41
Hero wins $6.37

i know i know, reraise less, dont call bla bla bla, when i made a call i knew he had a set probably, one got a flush draw, one got a set, tilt.

...

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $5.00
MP: $5.80
CO: $1.74
BTN: $6.31
Hero (SB): $3.57
BB: $5.34

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.15, fold, Hero raises to $3.57 and is all-in, fold, CO calls $1.59 and is all-in

Flop: ($3.53, 2 players) 7 9 2

Turn: ($3.53, 2 players) 6

River: ($3.53, 2 players) A

Hero shows Q Q (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 68%, Flop 56%, Turn 0%)
CO shows J K (Flush, King High) (PreFlop 32%, Flop 44%, Turn 100%)
CO wins $3.36

absolute tilt, shoved nah, even if 3bet he calls i lose, it's just damn very unlucky.

...

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $1.78
UTG: $4.83
MP: $5.54
CO: $7.59
BTN: $11.50
Hero (SB): $5.01

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has Q A

fold, MP calls $0.05, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.20, BB raises to $0.35, fold, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.75, 2 players) 4 5 Q
Hero checks, BB checks

Turn: ($0.75, 2 players) 9
Hero bets $0.36, BB calls $0.36

River: ($1.47, 2 players) 6
Hero bets $0.70, BB raises to $1.07 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.37

BB shows Q Q (Three of a Kind, Queens) (PreFlop 70%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Q A (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 30%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
BB wins $3.44

traped nicely...

...

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $5.00
CO: $5.35
Hero (BTN): $5.01
SB: $9.14
BB: $4.65
UTG: $4.40

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has T Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, BB raises to $0.25, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.52, 2 players) A 6 Q
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.52, 2 players) 8
BB bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25

River: ($1.02, 2 players) J
BB bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.50, BB calls $0.35

Hero shows T Q (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 26%, Flop 19%, Turn 14%)
BB shows Q K (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 74%, Flop 81%, Turn 86%)
BB wins $1.93

ok, the reason to raise the river, he 3bet over 60 hands 40% and the way he was betting i was a bit confused and thought i got a best hand, bad play.


So nice session overall 1k hands -4.5 bi, and above the hands everyone been asking about, u got it

BR: +$178.95
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:14 AM   #127
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Oh yeah... damn another one lol:

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $5.28
Hero (UTG): $6.16
MP: $8.35
CO: $2.19
BTN: $12.55
SB: $5.09

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 7 7

Hero raises to $0.15, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players) 3 7 T
BB checks, Hero bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.72, 2 players) 8
BB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.34, BB calls $0.84

River: ($3.40, 2 players) A
BB checks, Hero bets $1.62, BB calls $1.62

Hero shows 7 7 (Three of a Kind, Sevens) (PreFlop 53%, Flop 85%, Turn 23%)
BB shows J 9 (Straight, Jack High) (PreFlop 47%, Flop 15%, Turn 77%)
BB wins $6.32
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:18 AM   #128
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Oh yeah baby and another one, i missed flush here and full house at the same time i guess..

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $8.17
Hero (CO): $6.44
BTN: $2.14
SB: $5.00
BB: $6.37
UTG: $1.15

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has A A

fold, MP raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.45, fold, fold, fold, MP calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.97, 2 players) T 9 K
MP bets $0.15, Hero raises to $1.07, MP calls $0.92

Turn: ($3.11, 2 players) T
MP bets $0.40, Hero raises to $3.22, MP raises to $6.04, Hero calls $1.70 and is all-in

River: ($12.95, 2 players) 4

MP shows J Q (Straight, King High) (PreFlop 14%, Flop 68%, Turn 75%)
Hero shows A A (Two Pair, Aces and Tens) (PreFlop 86%, Flop 32%, Turn 25%)
MP wins $12.31

Too agressive i played this i think, 35 times i had AA in 8k hands, 1st time i lost it...
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:50 AM   #129
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Yeah, great night, i am done -7 bi, they call with any 2 today and hit, Q3o and hit, this will never end at micros, this is amazing, the raise 10bb with T7o, they call 4bet with T7o and hit, this is just crazy lol
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:23 AM   #130
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

- 10 bi, now this is a proper swing, it feels like those donks playing tourneys no cash, they dont know what is like UTG range, they 3bet u hard with any 2.. sick, they shoves with Ax to yr utg QQ and in long term somehow they are winners...

BR: $151.87

I dont know if i am still going to play this, swings like this at this stakes is very painfull especially when you are able to play only 1k hands on avrg. a day, it takes you 10 days to win 10 bi's and then it takes u one night to lose it...
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:26 AM   #131
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Chin up just grind it out.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:15 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DREAM333R View Post
Yeah i agree with that:

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $4.15
BB: $13.17
UTG: $11.56
MP: $2.16
Hero (CO): $4.20
BTN: $5.18

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 3 3

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN raises to $0.40, fold, BB calls $0.35, Hero calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.22, 3 players) T 5 3
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $0.60, fold, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.42, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($2.42, 2 players) Q
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.35, Hero raises to $3.20 and is all-in, BTN calls $1.85

Hero shows 3 3 (Three of a Kind, Threes) (PreFlop 18%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
BTN shows K K (One Pair, Kings) (PreFlop 82%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins $8.39
This is a fold pre and you should almost never call 3 bets oop either four bet or fold
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:59 PM   #133
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

By the way you should probably stop playing after you lose five buy ins
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:03 PM   #134
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

^^
I'm calling this all day closing out the action (set mining obv). There is 18BB in the pot, both villains have full stacks and it's only 5 bb to call.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:06 PM   #135
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

I missed that lol.

But in general I'm not calling three bets oop
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:18 PM   #136
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugthemc View Post
I missed that lol.

But in general I'm not calling three bets oop
Even with any pocket pair? The thingy is if you put your opponent on AK or AA KK QQ JJ depends on his 3bet %, so if you hit your set you are more likely to double up for an extra 5bb.

You are right about stop after 5bi loss, but i had nothing to do and keep playing and put myself in to tilt even more, i've been so angry yesterday and shoves QQ preflop after faced another 3bet with AJo, it was really bad from me, should have 4bet he calls another bet and he would folds, but fish calls preflop AJo and hit ace from space on the river, after that i did stop, kills me like, here is the hand:

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $5.79
BB: $5.61
Hero (UTG): $6.98
BTN: $4.27

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has Q Q

Hero raises to $0.15, fold, SB raises to $0.50, fold, Hero raises to $6.98 and is all-in, SB calls $5.29 and is all-in

Flop: ($11.63, 2 players) 5 6 3

Turn: ($11.63, 2 players) 7

River: ($11.63, 2 players) A

SB shows A J (One Pair, Aces) (PreFlop 28%, Flop 14%, Turn 11%)
Hero shows Q Q (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 72%, Flop 86%, Turn 89%)
SB wins $11.05
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:19 PM   #137
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Mick00 View Post
Chin up just grind it out.
Will do, need to put more volume in to this now..
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:39 PM   #138
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DREAM333R View Post
Even with any pocket pair?
It's pretty -EV to call a 3B oop heads up with pocket pairs Tens and below. (JJ is iffy as well but that are times when you can call). I used to do it all the time until my coach explained to me how unprofitable it is. Sure your folding the best hand some of the time, but playing the guessing game OOP is not winning poker. You are only going to flop a set 12% of the time. That means your check / folding a vast majority of the time and losing your 3 bet call every time you do.

It sucks to open 99 in the CO and get 3Bet by the button, but at the micros I feel the only real move is to fold. (Unless villain has been 3 betting relentlessly, then we start determining what ranges we want to 4B with but that's another topic).

If you have HEM or PT, I would filter for pocket pairs (22-TT) that you called 3bets with OOP and see if you have been profitable or not. The results might surprise you.

Edit: I just ran this filter on my HEM for 2010. 22-JJ, Call 3 Bet = true. Out of 212,000 hands last year, I called a 3 Bet 286 times with these hands for a loss of 289 bb/100. So I averaged a loss of around 1bb every time I did it.

Don't sweat the QQ hand either. You got it in good and cannot control the cards. Stop losses are critical as well.

Last edited by evagaba; 11-09-2011 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:13 PM   #139
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DREAM333R View Post

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $1.71
BB: $10.08
UTG: $3.99
MP: $5.26
CO: $5.28
Hero (BTN): $6.65

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has Q Q

fold, MP raises to $0.15, fold, Hero raises to $0.45, SB raises to $1.71 and is all-in, fold, MP raises to $5.26 and is all-in, Hero calls $4.81

Flop: ($12.28, 3 players) 2 7 9

Turn: ($12.28, 3 players) T

River: ($12.28, 3 players) J

MP shows K K (One Pair, Kings) (PreFlop 57%, Flop 74%, Turn 88%)
Hero shows Q Q (One Pair, Queens) (PreFlop 18%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
SB shows A K (High Card, Ace) (PreFlop 25%, Flop 17%, Turn 7%)
MP wins $11.67

should have fold? f*ck knows..

...

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $6.02
Hero (BB): $5.00
UTG: $5.52
MP: $6.93
CO: $2.35
BTN: $6.01

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 9 2

fold, fold, CO calls $0.05, fold, SB calls $0.03, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.15, 3 players) 2 9 5
SB bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.60, fold, SB raises to $1.05, Hero calls $0.45

Turn: ($2.25, 2 players) 6
SB bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

River: ($3.85, 2 players) A
SB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

SB shows A 9 (Two Pair, Aces and Nines) (PreFlop 78%, Flop 31%, Turn 20%)
Hero shows 9 2 (Two Pair, Nines and Twos) (PreFlop 22%, Flop 69%, Turn 80%)
SB wins $6.52

incredible, i dont even know how i got in to thart hand...
Hand 1: Folding here is pretty dependant on your reads. If you have QQ and 2 aggro fishy sucky players shoved then a call is fine, just curse the world for variance or KK AA blah blah.

But if you're getting 3/4 bet AL with QQ against 1 or both Nitty players, a fold isn't really a bad option either, it's 0 EV anyway ^^

Hand 1 is just down to your reads, so you should adjust accordingly.

...

Hand 2: You've checked in and hit 2 pair, wahey!

Imo, raising or calling on the flop is fine. 2 limpers pre-flop, we can assume are kind of fishy players. SB pots it on the turn, so consider a raise; will worse hands call? Yes, AA-66 ish will call, as well as any 9. You did get 3 bet though, i'm still fine with a call, but take note of strength (could be dumb fish raise, could be a set).

On the turn, i really think raise here. You get so much value, as well as information. 2.25 pot, and he sticks 0.8? That screams weakness. Its a fish. Raise pot for me, most pockets should fold, sets will shove, and some weaker hands will still call you. A big turn bet would have been pretty sweet.

River, meh, A is a pretty sucky card as it hits some of his range, he still bets small. 2 pair has decent showdown value, you never know, he might be on AK, AQ etc, thats in his range as well.

Annoying Ace, but a big turn bet i think may just push most people off top pair or overpair.
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:15 PM   #140
DREAM333R
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Just reread "beating micro stakes" in harrington on 6max online and gonna change playing style a bit, also change openning hands a bit, i had a mix of tight/loose style hands before, now i will adapt to the table i think and become a tight player on loose table, and loose player on tight table. Comment please if you think it's ok or not, this is the hand % that i will use:

Tight on loose table: UTG(10%) MP(13%) CO(18%) BTN(25%) SB(BTN range)
Loose on tight table: UTG(15%) MP(20%) CO(25%) BTN(35%) SB(BTN range)

Also playing on loose table with tight style i will loosening up if blinds are passive enough to use loose range from BTN.

Facing 3-bets, if villain is tight by VP/PFR and 3bet % is 10% or less i fold AQ or worse or TT or worse, it says i supposed to fold JJ as well, but i am like mmm.. really? Call with AK or QQ in position, fold out of position, only if villains is extremly tight VP/PFR combine with 3bet%(this is actually what happend when i 3bet QQ and BB moved all in with AK and MP 5bet with KK all in, i should have fold. 4-bet with AA or KK or call all in, or push all in vs 5-bet.

Try this for next 5k hands like and see how it's going to be. The problem is sometimes tight players with low 3bet% will 3bet light with low pocket pair like 55-22 or KQs.. I did faced that already few times and it's annoying because u hold a nice damn hand but somehow person who 3bets hit hard on board and become big favorite while been underdog preflop it's just paradox that i've seen many many times..
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:29 PM   #141
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

There is no tight or loose tables. There is a mixture of players with the best scenario (if u do,and u should tableselect) nits to the left,loose/passive or aggro donk fishes to your left.

Opening button less than 30% is usually leaving money on the table. Also % don't give u much help,u should think why u open exact hands,how are they gonna paly vs palyers who are mst likely to call. Folding anything but QQ+ AK to a 3bet of an uknown is completely fine till like nl25 for sure. I would rather 4bet QQ and flat AA tbh,but it all depends
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:56 PM   #142
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by burpst View Post
There is no tight or loose tables. There is a mixture of players with the best scenario (if u do,and u should tableselect) nits to the left,loose/passive or aggro donk fishes to your left.

Opening button less than 30% is usually leaving money on the table. Also % don't give u much help,u should think why u open exact hands,how are they gonna paly vs palyers who are mst likely to call. Folding anything but QQ+ AK to a 3bet of an uknown is completely fine till like nl25 for sure. I would rather 4bet QQ and flat AA tbh,but it all depends
Yeah, there is always a mix of players, but when say one is loose player and others are tight it is a tight table overall, so depends who and where is sitting.. I will see how to adapt to this NL5, for the past few days i noticed more more and more fish and donks players at NL5, looks like they deposit more money and move up from NL2
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:01 PM   #143
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

It's good to have default plays to fall back on, but always remember you need to adjust your playing style to the table!
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:06 PM   #144
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

hey havent seen this diary! gl man, some advice:

- you shouldnt really be playing on any tight table so leave that out of the ecuation :P
- dont focus too much on the numbers because i dont think you get solid stats on many players, most of the time the 3b% will be missleading because of the hand samples. Play more accordingly to reads than those numbers, look at what is happening on the table, etc.
- and last, try not to have a 3b calling range, that allways ends up destroying winrates
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:36 PM   #145
Donkey111
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocho Willy View Post
- and last, try not to have a 3b calling range, that allways ends up destroying winrates
I disagree with this bit. It should be "try not to have a 3b calling range OOP, that always ends up destroying winrates"

OOP, you should 4-bet or fold.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:23 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkey111 View Post
I disagree with this bit. It should be "try not to have a 3b calling range OOP, that always ends up destroying winrates"

OOP, you should 4-bet or fold.
Folding to 3b in micros will increase ur win rate, I wouldnt 4b bluff ever. Players aren't as aggro as u may think. Until you see other wise don't assume.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:20 PM   #147
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Mick00 View Post
Folding to 3b in micros will increase ur win rate, I wouldnt 4b bluff ever. Players aren't as aggro as u may think. Until you see other wise don't assume.
Yeah 99% of the time 3bet means AA AK KK QQ JJ.

I personally 3bet AQo/s AJs TT as well if oop but only to CO, BTN and SB also depends on numbers from HUD.

But what i was facing alot is light 3betting, with AJo, ATo, 44, KQ this is annoying and it's hard to guess wtf they got.

When i was taking shots at NL25 i was facing 3bet light, here is the hand, he was 3betting a bit too much and aggro overall, VP/PFR very loose, he also lost a hand before, so was on tilt a bit, so i put him on AK or AQ str8away, but was confused a bit how to play with him postflop so i was like passive calling station, turn bet was looking more like a bluff, so when decided to call i told myself i push all in the river and what ever happens ..happens...but i dont believe he got a hand to beat me, i was right:

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $25.10
BB: $19.87
UTG: $43.87
Hero (MP): $26.16
CO: $10.00
BTN: $25.00

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 8 8

fold, Hero raises to $0.87, fold, BTN raises to $2.50, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.63

Flop: ($5.35, 2 players) 3 4 J
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.00, Hero calls $3.00

Turn: ($11.35, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, BTN bets $7.00, Hero calls $7.00

River: ($25.35, 2 players) 6
Hero bets $13.66 and is all-in, BTN calls $12.50 and is all-in

Hero shows 8 8 (Two Pair, Eights and Fours) (PreFlop 56%, Flop 69%, Turn 86%)
BTN shows T A (One Pair, Fours) (PreFlop 44%, Flop 31%, Turn 14%)
Hero wins $48.35
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:32 PM   #148
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Mick00 View Post
Folding to 3b in micros will increase ur win rate, I wouldnt 4b bluff ever. Players aren't as aggro as u may think. Until you see other wise don't assume.
I was playing NL2 to 10 just last year. At the the time I was playing, I agree that at 2-5NL, you can get away with folding to 3-bet often and still have a decent win rate.

Should you ever 4 bet bluff? I think 4-bet bluffing has some room even at 2NL. I believe that playing smart poker should be player oriented, not stake specific. In other words, I think you can 4-bet bluff wide 3-bettors, admittedly a distinct minority at 2/5NL. At the upper micro stakes (25-50NL), I also think 4-bet bluffing should be part of your standard game (the game you play against unknown) on the big sites. I'm also sure there are plenty of 25-50NL players who will disagree with me.

But anyway, my point was about 3-bet calling OOP, not 4-bet bluffing. You are at a significant disadvantage when you call a 3-bet OOP. Therefore, you should always 4-bet (for value mostly) or fold. You can call 3-bet IP with a calling range proportionate to villain's 3-bet range (wide if he 3-bet wide, tight if he 3-bet tight). Most of the time, you won't lose much EV-wise if you always 4-bet or fold and never call against most 2-5NL players.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:33 PM   #149
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Dont understand why you shove river like that.

Your forcing his bluffs out and the only thing really thats gonna call are his value hands.
I guess he paid you off since your line looks fishy tbh.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:58 PM   #150
Donkey111
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Re: BEATING DAMN MICROS!!! Thats a goal i believe..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DREAM333R View Post
PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $25.10
BB: $19.87
UTG: $43.87
Hero (MP): $26.16
CO: $10.00
BTN: $25.00

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 8 8

fold, Hero raises to $0.87, fold, BTN raises to $2.50, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.63

Flop: ($5.35, 2 players) 3 4 J
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.00, Hero calls $3.00

Turn: ($11.35, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, BTN bets $7.00, Hero calls $7.00

River: ($25.35, 2 players) 6
Hero bets $13.66 and is all-in, BTN calls $12.50 and is all-in

Hero shows 8 8 (Two Pair, Eights and Fours) (PreFlop 56%, Flop 69%, Turn 86%)
BTN shows T A (One Pair, Fours) (PreFlop 44%, Flop 31%, Turn 14%)
Hero wins $48.35
This is such a strangely played hand.

By default, OOP I would fold. I would 4-bet/call if he 3-bets very wide and be happy to flip as a small favourite if he has 2 overcards (~55% against AQ+).

Medium pocket pairs are difficult to play in 3-bet pots postflop as there is little information to be gained by seeing a flop with a medium pocket pair (how many overcards but that won't help you much to narrow your opponent's range) while unpaired hands like to see a flop since a flop give them a lot more information for extracting maximum value.
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