Nice blog man, good to see the journey! How is skypoker? Been thinking of giving that a go with not getting the exclusive challenge on stars anymore. And seriously, you've got to at least shot-take at 5nl if you've got 15-20 bi, you can clearly beat both 2nl and 5nl. And probably 10nl with (or even without) a couple of exploitative adjustments.

Welcome. + thanks. Sky is soft but comes with big software tilt potential (esp true if you're used to Stars). Arsey GUI design compounded with tiny time-banks, no hotkeys and the occasional power out. My broadband is Sky so I always lol whenever they have 'network issues'.

But.. if you can get over all that it's 100% playable/profitable. What you lose in finesse you more than make up with reccy pools. Send my regards to Conga if you bump into him. We're putting together a GoFundMe to get him a poker themed tank-top for xmas.

******

RE shots: I reckon I could beat 10nlz over a large enough sample but I couldn't crush it because I still have so many calling leaks. This is the part of my game holding me back right now. It nukes my otherwise well earned winrate. That and spending my bankroll constantly. I'm warming to the idea that when it comes to actually learning poker at the micros, WR > bankroll/stake.

As in, it's much more important to be learning your game inside out while winning comfortably (5bb+) at a lower stake, than shooting up the stakes ASAP and just carrying all your errors with you to hammer out higher up where the variance will crush you instead. Idk. That's where I'm at. Once I can play 5k hands a day and still beat 2nlz for 10bb I'll consider it a job done (and bankroll takes you up regardless).

I'm going to have to give it a go if the pool is fairly soft. I'll see how I manage with the software, and if it's too much of a pain, I can always just switch back to stars. Is there much action at 25nl and above on there?

In terms of calling, I think that is probably the area you want to most deviate from solver solutions. I think the vast majority of villains, especially regs, massively underbluff. Even though flop frequencies for bets and raises will probably be about balanced with the correct frequencies, for turn and river, they get progressively more and more skewed towards value, especially for raises rather than bets. With recs, I think you can go a little looser with the calling down, but Vs most regs (not every single one though), you have to call down a lot tighter than a solver would. For example, I was looking at my 25nl dB for 3bet pots where I'd cbet flop and turn and got raised on turn, for those that went to showdown, villain had a nuttish hand 15 times, a strong draw 3 times, and air 5 times. And the air hands were all fishy players. But tbh, I've had and still have the leak of calling down more than I should (hence why I was looking into it again). Maybe it's just me, but the longer my session has been going, the more loose calls I make, although a 30 minute break, even to study, seems to reset that "counter".

In terms of winrate, I reckon you could easily beat 5nl for something close enough to 5bb/100. I'd say if you're winning at 5bb/100 and have the bankroll, it's probably time to move up. I think it's normal to have your leaks exposed at higher levels, as long as you have a br management system to step back down, go for it. Plus with the new rewards system, you should be getting somewhere from an extra 1-3bb/100. They do say stepping out of your comfort zone can be important, just as long as it isn't too far.

You're probably right, I'm discussing this in the strat forum. I've obviosuly got leaks that won't get exposed until I face reasonable playback and, as you say, the EV disparity of overcalling the further down you play grows exponentially. Ergo, no-brainer to play as exploitatively against that as possible.

I just *think* I'm seeing more unpredictable wild stuff and that itself is helping because while I could coast against the regs @10nl with a slightly superior GTO game all day long (i suspect) these 'uncategorised' situations kept occuring and zapping my WR. We'll see. I might get bored.

RE SKY: Sounds like you'd enjoy the 20nl/30nl pools to be honest. I haven't played higher, although it looks reasonably soft and straightforward if you do take shots. There's a few soft regs who seem to dabble at all limits, and lots of fish regs, I've had some of my most entertaining nights on Sky playing drunks at 2am. But it can grind too, esp before you know who all the passives are

Skypoker huh?

You guys keeping all the biggest UK fish in your own secret pool now?

Yep, only her majesty's island inmates/natives may enter this highly lucrative and restricted area I'm afraid.

I did ask them if I could use a VPN once because I was fed up of turning it on/off constantly. Guy said 'errr... probably fine' then I said, 'so you can confirm you won't randomly freeze my account?'. Next sentence was from his manager, 'VPNs not allowed, if you use a VPN it is entirely at your own risk'.

So from that I understand they are probably deeply incompetent and don't even check unless prodded. I've also left Pio open accidentally numerous times from studying and the software just ignores it. Nothing to worry about there.

I did check, and apparently, they also allow customers from Ireland and Finland. I feel like this maybe of interest to someone on these forums, but I just can't think of who it is off the top of my head.

Its Paisting.

Paisting is from Finland.

That with the voice control is one of the most awesomest things I ever read. It's f fantastic! You go get em mate! One fix for calling too light is calling stronger or only calling when nutted. If you're unsure use Google randomizer. Or flip a coin.

Subbed. Gl mate!

They didnt let me from Europe. I wanted to register but it only has adress options for uk, ireland and Gibraltar.
If I click on skybet.com it opens my stars sports betting client. ( same as pokerstars poker client)
Stars bought them. The whole sky gambling section.

Aye I use my desktop pc clock, the seconds hand. Mostly for preflop but sometimes in random spots. I think it's good and you have to break the game down into an argument in your mind. Useful.

Ta + welcome . Still waiting for elon to send the neurolink for preliminary tests. I want to know I can wake up, put on my glasses, and instantly start 6-tabling stars with my cheek. I need that power. I think it's even a human right maybe. Some scoundrel could chop off your limbs and you could be laughing at the guy --- ahahaha, you might take my legs and my arms but you'll never, never take my pokerstars VR experience from me!!!!

EDIT: whereabouts in Europe washoe?

Im in Berlin Ceres. Im really digging that you are on the front of voice control. I looked into other ways of controling my tables as well. I have a ton of ergonomic mouses, but will get a track ball like you have in the op.

There are a few things that I dont understand. You seem to be one level if not 10 levels above nl2. You are owning and using pio! lol what are you doing at nl2? Im sure this has been asked before. I respect your br managment, it is good. But I also think you should get another source of income and then study on the side. You are in the uk? Find poker buddies in poker clubs or here on 2+2. That could be one major leak. Then attack bigger limits comfortably. As you said yourself, your calling problem seems to be a result of tilt or lack of concentration after too long sessions. Take a break, only play on your a game. I hate to tell you this, but imo you are wasting time and money on the low stakes. You could do much better use of the time. 2.5k is really good for these stakes, but in comparison that could be a month of salery if you look for the right job and you invested a few month imo. Wishing you luck mate!

Love the wookie avator!

Berlin, fantastic, definitely on my list of cool cities to visit one day.

Your points are valid friend. All I can say is I've had to take the longer route because I only started playing for a source of income that works around the migraines (which still prevent me from getting a proper job). Been a few years now but my goal then is the same as now, reach something like a £10/hr winrate and then coast from there.

I may be close already, it is true, but I'm not sure I can play higher comfortably now until I know, for certain, that I'm not making too many really dumb mistakes against fishier opponents. I feel the stress in my body when I f-up more than a few times per session. I'm trying to minimise that residual pain as much as I can. Circumstance-wise, I'm also very lucky; I get to stay with my folks rent-free so my costs of living are basically only food, vets bills and marijuana. Feel like I'm in as good a spot as anyone to learn the game.

Pio, or any solver, is definitely overkill for micros, but it's kept my interest alive. I love the technical side of poker and would've likely bought it (or GTO+) anyway as a rec.

I don't play much volume either, so I try and make the hands per analysis ratio count. If all goes well my hands/month will increase as my confidence (unconscious winning gameplay) and health does. That's the plan anyway!

Appreciate the thoughts tho. + yeah, can't recommend the trackball enough. Excellent on the wrists (and also easy to switch hands with when tired as a nice added bonus).

Super humon calldown this:


PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 102.5 BB
Hero (SB): 102 BB
BB: 243.5 BB
UTG: 80.5 BB
MP: 101.5 BB
CO: 164 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K Q

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 11.5 BB, fold, CO calls 8.5 BB

Flop: (24 BB, 2 players) 8 7 7
Hero bets 7.5 BB, CO calls 7.5 BB

Turn: (39 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero bets 25 BB, CO calls 25 BB

River: (89 BB, 2 players) 5
Hero bets 58 BB and is all-in, CO calls 58 BB

Hero shows K Q (Three of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 44%, Flop 24%, Turn 17%)
CO shows A T (Three of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 56%, Flop 76%, Turn 83%)
CO wins 198 BB


why the **** am i barreling air at 2nlz?

ceres aint lacking heart

Thats a great triple barrel. Terrible call by villain. Results aside you won that hand.

Tbh, I like the way you played the hand, you just came across that 1in a hundred guy who'll call that down without blinking. You've got to triple barrel some air here.

Wello - often surprisingly erudite degens of 2+2.

Thought I'd better do an update as a few months have transpired and I'm getting back into things again.

Life, has been shite, ngl, good old Covathan an' all. I may write about all the stuff going on one day but I'd rather focus on getting out of it first. Importantly, I have kept grinding almost throughout and learning a few things but only managing an hour or two on Sky per day for pocket money. Main/technical progress has been too slow/meaningless to say much about it.

Still comfortably crushing 10nl cash, quite blindly really, but my 'slumming it' Stars 2nlz stint took a turn for the worst when I started not caring enough and experimenting waay too much /slash/ calling down like a fish to 'test my handreading' <cough>, resulting in a 25 BI downswing. Which has opened my eyes really to some of the sheer inevitability of long-form variance. It's helped my mental approach and all the fish profiling has been instructive. Lots to think about and apply higher up which was the main reason for dropping doon.

Anyway, playing almost exclusively wild players for peanuts can be pretty ****ing draining too and I think I've now reached that inflection point where I'm not learning as much as I could if I started grinding purely to move up again (against actual ranges etc etc).

Time to turn the afterburners on and get back up to where I belong, 10nlz.

_________________________________________


This is my amazing dream plan for the next 12 months.


- build up (gradually) to 7.5 hr mega-grinds/4 days a week

- reach 10bb winrates on Sky, 5bb winrates on Zoom, move up accordingly

- 20 BIs required for 2-10nlz, thereafter, AT LEAST 50BI (this is my biggest lesson of 2021)

- reach 25nlz with a comfortable WR by summer 2022 (possible, i think, if ceres gets off arse consistently)

- from there everything takes care of itself as I will be earning enough to retire!


...maaaybe not. But it will bring me very close to my ultimate goal: the goal of work-life freedom. I can move out etc. Start rebuilding my life, all while working a 4 day week (omg)

An actual job without sacrificing your soul to some faceless profiteering cnut? Sign me up. Of course, taking longer than I thought to learn poker well enough for that level of security but that only makes it more exciting, + that prize is still too serene and beautiful to turn back now.

freeedddduuuummmm

here's my final yearly graff for completionist sakes:



Bit of a nothing/flat-liner year. The play has flittered from awful to my best yet so whatever really, I'm probably going to be moving away from graphs going forward after diving down a few rabbit holes on what really amounts to progress in modern online poker. I am a bit disappointed with my volume. I have to get about 6x as much done in 2022 if I am to achieve my goals, so that has to be my main focus now.

Great to see the thread revived. Nice update, nice goals, and gl in 2022!

P.S. some low hanging fruit - 80% Fv3b is too high.

Thanks!

I was under the impression that was quite an acceptable haircut at the lowest stakes, given everyone is way under-3betting no? Obviously I can see it being an issue from a technical defence PoV, and the plan is to increase as (if) I move up, but I'm not sure anyone is going to exploit it at 2-10nlz? And even if they did, it's probably still worth it because the underlying principle is the same?

I'm using questions because I've only been told this, but I think it makes sense. We face a stronger range when we call than most micro oop ranges anticipate.

I wouldn't think of it from a defensive mindset and I agree that you shouldn't be concerned about your opponents exploiting you. As an example, let's say I proposed that you only VPIP with AA. You would say that I'm playing too tight and I'd reply: "Well sure, but no-one at these stakes is going to notice, and even if they did they wouldn't exploit me." While that might be true, the problem isn't that you are getting exploited, the problem is that you are folding KK! What I'm getting at is that I don't think 80% Fv3b is too high because you will get exploited, I think it is too high because you are folding profitable hands. I also agree that you should probably fold more than equilibrium if your opponents are 3betting too tight, I just think you're taking that adjustment a bit too far. Of course, I could be wrong and your adjustment could be spot on. If I was going to check one spot, it would be BU vs SB. If you look at what you are folding there and are happy with it, then I'd say you're probably doing fine at other parts in the game tree. Notably, check your actual stats instead of any ranges you've got - it's very easy to say "I'd defend here with XYZ", but when you look at your stats you find you actually fold them without realising.

Hey nice dedication mate. Here's to a strong 2022.

Also used to play sky poker, might have to take a look at the pool again.

Nice year, and GL with the grind for 2022. As a side note, is that fold to 3bet stat just fold to 3bet, or fold to 3bet after RFI. If the former, it seems fine, if the latter, not so much.

Hmm, right, I'll have to take a closer look when I can access PT again

PC exploded so waiting on a new motherboard/cpu