Probably played with you then!

I've been thinking of playing like this aswell, trying to see what works best. How do you play the hand OOP from there? Check-raise the flop if you hit or let them bluff into you for another street? Are you just check folding if you miss?

Update #5

Hands: 1507
Result: $12.90

Current BR: $311.98


Monthly Goals:
-GoldStar (1189/3000)
-100k Hands (76k/100k)

Notes:
After reviewing last nights session I had some time to fit in some poker, kept playing good and this time the cards were on my side, so I turned a quick profit. No real interesting hands, very short session.

I do have 1 hand to share though


Hands:

For this hand I am mainly talking about AQ, but also includes hands of comparable strength.

I want opinions on this situation, it happens alot in Zoom and unsure what the default play should be. In the hand below I've got over 1000 hands on villian, hes a 5NL zoom reg with one of the lowest 3bet% I've ever seen so its easy fold.

My thoughts are: Fold if they have a low 3bet (like this hand), I always 4bet if they have a high 3bet. But my issue is if they have a standard 3bet or they are an unknown can I smooth call in position or should I 4bet against them. Generally the closer I am to the button the more I lean towards the 4bet, people in Zoom like to 3bet out of the blinds.

Just looking for thoughts/discussion.

I think just fold. That's kind of a hand, that you can fold even in position in zoom. A ton of regs just donk almost every flop to you and what do you do then ?
What if flop is x A x and he donks ? It's easier when you have AK there.
What if flop is x Q x and he donks ? It's easier when you have AA or KK there
Would you be confident with your hand there ? I think it's burning money when you call and fold on lot of flops/turns especially in 3bet pots.

Love this thread keep up the good work and good luck, ill be following your journey closely

I don't think you should fold if a random 5NL villain 3bets your button raise from the big blind. Depending on stack sizes I'd call or 4bet. I'm assuming you have reasonable post-flop skills if you normally play 10NL.

Thanks!

Thanks for the run-down that why I'm reluctant to call, make some good points. I'm never really happy with the flop and if they are 3betting my EP/MP raise their range is definitely ahead of my perceived range, just so happens I'm at the top end of that range.

You missed the question/point, Button and CO (even hijack if I've got some stats on villian) is 100% 4bet them, I don't have any issues with that play.

My question was focused on EP/MP, they are 3betting against my tighter perceived opening range, but I'm at the top end of my range, if I call I get stuck in situations that sidzkosic mentioned, what are YOU doing when they donkbet into you on the flop + turn on x A x boards? or Q high boards? Are you simply going to call them down? re-raise them on the flop? Just pray they check?

My question is more focused on whether or not 4betting a random villian is profitable in the long run from EP/MP. I know they 5bet/shove anything that beats me and if they call I have position and the initiative (thus nearly always taking down the pot). But thats rare, at 10NL Zoom I'm not seeing people flat 4bets OOP. They either shove (I am beat) or fold (I had them beat).

You can't 4bet here if thats the case but it opens the door for some light 4betting.

How big are the 3bets? Generally, I would call pf and call those A/Q flops to reassess on the turn. I would probably fold if I missed the flop.

It might help if you posted some of the hands that you called pf in this situation?

Raise is 3BB, 3bets are generally to 10-11BB. I'll dig up some hands and post them here.

Found two hands that detail the situation pretty well. If replies could detail your move on each street with reasoning that would be great. No stats on villians in all hands. I could only find hands when they call a 4bet OOP, but it demonstrates the problem with

Villian flat calls a 4bet OOP, I'd say he has JJ+ or AK, I miss the flop completely and they check. Do you bet here and why? and then what do you do on the turn if they call, if a blank hits your still behind to everything and can only get AK to fold here. If you hit a Q your now only ahead against JJ/AK but still behind to QQ, KK and AA.




Basically the same situation again, I bet and a K comes off, problem here is they have $3.64 behind and the pot is over $9.00 (they started with around 80BB but even if they had 100 at start its hard to make them fold), I can try and rep the K here (JJ/QQ could fold, but for the pot odds they aren't folding, the number of times they have to be right here is small to be profitable), AK/KK/AA is calling and I lose. Or I just give up and lose a pot that could have been avoided.



I'll dig up some hands where I call the 3bet instead of them calling the 4bet. These hands just stood out for me.

I think you have to be a little careful with all this preflop 3 / 4 betting at tables like $10nl full ring ..

I think its easy to get pre-occupied with this and you end up basically finding yourself in tough post flop situations with a bloated pot.

I know this because it was a mistake i made

At the end of the day ... a lot of FR players at these stakes only 3 bet a very narrow range and others go the opposite away and will 3 bet anything against a CO+ preflop raise.

Almost all regs at this level know that opening up in the CO+ with a wider range is the right thing to do .... a lot of them dont know what to do when they are called ..and know even less when their cbet is floated..

Im never folding a hand like AQo against these type in a later position, i will probably 3 bet a little more often when oop and call more if im in position.

You also have to be careful when you 4 bet someone, if they are 3 betting you after a EP or MP1 then AQo is dodgy as hell because your opening range is tighter and 4 betting someone here is asking for trouble.

If i call in a late position with a hand like AQo against a CO+ open then im probably going to float any flop and possibly donk any turn scare card ... the turn donk after being floated is a pain in the arse

Why you 3 betting to 10 or 11bb ? ... i tend to stick to a standard 9bb against a 3bb open ... i think a lot of players play face up in 3 bet pots so you i try to keep it a little smaller unless i know he never folds

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #12516632

CO: $12.58 (125.8 bb)
SB: $6.70 (67 bb)
BB: $8.14 (81.4 bb)
UTG: $14.33 (143.3 bb)
Hero (UTG+1): $22.42 (224.2 bb)
UTG+2: $16.78 (167.8 bb)
MP1: $10.81 (108.1 bb)
MP2: $13.49 (134.9 bb)
MP3: $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A Q
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 6 folds, BB raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $1.80, BB calls $1.30

Flop: ($3.65) 2 T 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.70, BB calls $2.70

Turn: ($9.05) K (2 players)
BB checks

This is my point .. is BB a aggro madman ?, does he 3bet from the BB a lot ?

You are raising UTG+1 here, your range has to be narrow and he should know this so whats he doing putting in that silly re-raise ?

Bloating the pot here with AQo is overplaying your hand a little and when he calls you have to be worried.

What you do on this turn ? ..how much fold or pot equity do you have here now ?

Thanks for all the input, means alot from another 10NL player. You've given me alot to think about. When I said 10/11bb I meant that was pot size on the flop. I do 3bet to 3x the original raise.

What about 3betting in position? I currently feel like I re-raise alot of hands in position, basically AQ+, JJ+. Sometimes AJ if they are mid-late position.

I feel like this is just making people fold too many hands that I dominate (KJ/KQ etc). and at least costing me a bet or two (either when we both hit or they cbet) While its giving me a great red line, not sure if its optimal.

In position, I like to re-raise things like suited connectors or mid pocket pairs like 88-99 against players that will fold a lot and are fit or fold post flop.

You have so many ways to win a hand against these types, im far more inclined to raise these hands than something like AQ or JJ because hes folding everything you crush.

If you call with AQ and hes holding something like KQ, JA, KJ, AT etc ... then you obviously dont want him to fold preflop when your in position.

But his range would include anything like 89s, pocket pairs and even if you miss with AQ there is a good chance hes missed with any of the above hands or they cannot continue with dodgy pocket pairs on bad boards and they will often take one stab and fold on later streets ..

If they double barrel then you can let go of your AQ knowing hes not really profited that much from a better hand.

I was thinking along those lines, thanks for the input.

I used to 3bet alot in position when I played non-zoom and found I was getting called by hands I dominate but its definitely not the case in Zoom. So i'll drop it.

I suppose it works both ways ..

Depends if he folds to a 3 bet a lot, then you can abuse him with all sorts.

If he calls 3 bets very wide then a hand like AQ would be a 3 bet for value...

The bottom line is your running at around 9bb/100 hands after 50k+ hands so your not doing too much wrong at all .

Its $10nl after all ... so we dont have to over elaborate our play too much

Update #6

Hands: 7809
Result: $7.10

Current BR: $319.01


Monthly Goals:
-GoldStar (1434/3000)
-100k Hands (83k/100k)

Notes:

Disgusting session, sometimes this game just makes you want to quit. Definitely in a downswing; mixture of taking some brutal bad beats and just not hitting draws/sets. I still won my session slightly but my all-in EV reads $33 which just makes me sick. I quit the session after I lost with AA for the 3rd time (out of 5 times) this session (all-in preflop).

I try not to complain about bad beats, when your playing 10k+ hand sessions it happens and I hate reading/hearing peoples bad beats, you know the game and how it works, deal with it (/ramble).

Playing some good poker overall just waiting for the cards to turn around. Also nearly halfway to Goldstar and im definitely going to make 100k hands, probably should have made the goal 200k, gonna stop reporting on that goal now. I feel im starting to pick up on some meta changes to zoom in general, mostly people stacking off alot of less preflop and alot less people willing to get it all in general. Might just be me though. I also ran into someone with $100 on 10NL zoom, biggest I've seen yet, with my highest being $70.

Hands:

Worth value betting this river? I don't feel anyone has a 4 or 5 especially when it checks to me, someone might pay off with an overpair.




Ignore the flop check, your eyes play tricks when your 6 tabling Zoom. I am confident about my hand on the river, correct to check here and let the busted flush take a stab?

Hand 1.

Raise the flop in position ? because their is a awful lot of weakness being shown.

Hand 2.

Say you check the river and someone pots it .. you call ?

1. Never considered raising the flop there as a semi-bluff, I really like that.

2. I guess with hand 2 if I'm checking there I have to call the pot bet, because I've induced the bluff (at least I believe I have). The hand in general is awkward because if I bet the flop I probably take it down and when I bet the turn aswell its probably mine, the accidently flop check screwed me up alittle.


Thanks for the feedback.

Update #7

Hands: 3554
Result: $3.14

Current BR: $322.15


Monthly Goals:
-GoldStar (1576/3000)


Notes:
Another small win, just can't get anything going. I dropped about $15 early on in the session and managed to work my way up to about a $25 profit. I ended my session after getting it all in on the turn with the nut straight vs a set. We both had about $20 behind so when the board paired on the river it was a big hit (200BB), but thats the reason I stick around with so much on the table because there are plenty of soft spots like this, just didn't work out today.

Still playing a solid game, no massive mistakes but still definitely some room for improvement (minor leaks) they start to happen more and more as the session goes on, no surprise there.

I'm over halfway on my GoldStar goal and I'd like to hopefully have it locked down well before the end of the month, just need some big sessions, which I am capable of doing (already done an 11k hand session), I just need to not get a crushing bad beat that makes me stop playing (I am such a bad tilter).


Hands:

Don't have time to do these right now, I'll review/post up later.

Update #8

Power failure mid session tonight writing this from my laptop (with 20% battery left, thankfully) while using my iPhone as a hotspot.

Don't have the exact stats but I'd say about 3k hands. And checking my BR its sitting at exactly $325, so I won about $3. I'm too fed up with poker right now to keep doing this amount of volume though. I was up $25ish at one stage in the session only to have set vs set and then nut flush against a set, only to have the board run out against me.

Thats how zoom runs though, just I've been on the bad end for the past week.

The deck is hitting me so hard and its crushing my win rate, I shouldn't come because my sessions are still profitable, but its hard to be motivated when I could easily be taking a stab at 25NL if my last 3 sessions hadn't all been this way. Definitely seem to be in abit of downswing, but thankfully I'm beating it enough that I'm about break-even.

So I am going to take a break for a few days before I get back to it. I still want Goldstar for this month and I'd like to be sitting on $500 by end of this month (and taking a stab at 25NL).

I'm back and ready to play some poker, I've been playing steadily still over my 'break' period but no sick volume. Time to get back and track and improving my game. I also scored a cash in the Sunday Storm for $40ish.

Current BR: $368.66
Goldstar: 2146/3000

Going to go play a session now, will be back with a full update + hands.

Update #9

Hands: 5319
Result: $27.79

Current BR: $396.41


Monthly Goals:
-GoldStar (2333/3000)

Notes:
What a rollercoaster session, the first 2000 hands were filled with so many sick coolers both for and against me until things started to settle. Playing really good poker (break helped) and I was focusing on which stake I was playing the hand at which has always been a weakness of mine since im playing over two different stakes.

While 10NL isn't that much tougher than 5NL there are definitely some meta game differences, so many times I've played a hand and at the end gone 'that was correct on 10NL or correct on 5NL'. Probably sounds weird to some but I've got nearly 100k zoom hands across both stakes now, so trust me :P.

Was disappointed not to end the session alittle higher, having aces cracked by kings again for a $8 loss, depressing. Still beat the game for 8.5bb/100 though. I'm looking at taking an aggressive shot at 25NL if all goes well in my next session (can't wait).

Lots of hands today, all comments welcome as always.


Hands:

Good place to raise on this hand? I've got good equity in the hand and they both seem pretty weak to just call. Wouldn't mind getting it all in on the flop so I can see both cards. Not sure about my raise size though




Interesting hand for 10NL you don't see this much, I was just set mining the hand but really I should have bet the flop. Worked out great result wise this hand since I dont see 8s folding, but in general I was disappointed with my check here with so much dead money in the pot. I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be betting at this yes/no?




Just cause I haven't really posted any bad beats in this thread yet, I don't generally like to because its poker and if your going to complain about every single one you shouldn't play the game. But river King is nasty for nearly 200bb




Not happy with how I played this hand, I should have raised again instead of calling. At the time I figured I have position and he'll fire again, flush hits and I feel I have to bet, turns out he most likely had nothing and was just testing me on the flop, pretty common play at 10NL zoom I find.




I really don't know about this hand, big pairs are a weakness of mine. Flop bet is a yes, turn bet hits alot of hands and opens a few draws. Can i ever bet the river here against an AK/KQ? Probably not I feel like I only get called by better more often than not, but I'd like your opinion.

Hand 1: Buy in full? I think your raise is good but I'm wondering what your plan is ott if they just call?

Hand 2: You could probably reraise pre here but I'm probably biased since I can see the results. Since 6 players saw the flop in a 3bet pot it is unlikely that you have the best hand. Even if you do the turn card is almost always going to be a bad card. Good fold.

Hand 3: Lucky it is 5NL. nh

Hand 4: Reraise the flop because he is representing a big hand and if they are bluffing you are most likely getting no more out of them. As played I think your bet ott is turning your hand into a bluff but I suppose they could call with a set? I would check to try and get a bet out of them on the river and you might even improve to a K flush.

Hand 5: Bet more otf (~$2) to get value from draws and TP hands. I would bet the turn since only AQ got there. Check back the river.

I'd be impressed if you got KQ to fold. :P

Hand 1: Its some sort of bug that I think involves the tableninja sit out all button, I've had issues with it before. I need to restart all my tables to fix it, couldn't be bothered since my other tables were all above buyin and it was late into the session. I would obviously hit my draw on the turn and they would be unable to fold for the bloated pot size. Honestly, I would just re-asses the turn depending what comes, the SB will probably check to me, I might even get to score a free river card with abit of luck.

Hand 2: I actually like the idea of raising, squeezing works great in 10NL and the principle definitely applies here. Your right though, the number of times I actually have the best hand is low and even if its currently the best, there are so many hands with good equity against me.

Hand 3: It was nearly a buyin for 10NL though

Hand 4: Yeh I should have just raised the flop again, I don't know if he has a big hand though, this weak lead re-raise bluff has been popping up alot in 10NL zoom lately, its pretty dam confusing but I'm yet to see any of them have an actual hand, so I'm leaning towards a bluff spot until I see otherwise. Regardless I should have raised again to protect against a flush draw which he might be semi-bluffing with.

Hand 5: Yeh didn't even notice the weak flop bet, I'm thinking 1.90 is about right. True AQ was the only had to actually get there, I have to bet to stop anything with a Q drawing to the open ender now, not to worried about AQ in this spot since I've got two blockers (wish one was the Ace of hearts). But that doesn't really matter anyway because then I still want to bet to charge them.

They might fold KQ... its only the second nuts.. :P

sn?
do you tilt /steam?
tips for frr rush?

GL!