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Old 05-22-2010, 10:23 PM   #26
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoThirtyTwo View Post
Work on your bet sizing like has been said. I think you're undersizing bets in alot of places and probably losing alot of potential value by doing it.
Thanks, seems like everyone is giving me the same advice, so I will take it on board.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:38 PM   #27
TwoThirtyTwo
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Originally Posted by LygerWon View Post
Thanks, seems like everyone is giving me the same advice, so I will take it on board.
Just post hands in the micro FR forum, one hand per thread, and they'll give you a good idea of how you should play the hands.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:12 AM   #28
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

play some tournies...good way to have a few big scores
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:37 AM   #29
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Originally Posted by Actionaut View Post
play some tournies...good way to have a few big scores
I'm not a big fan of tourneys, they take too long and have too much variance (I always seem to run bad in them), harder to biuld up rake as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoThirtyTwo View Post
Just post hands in the micro FR forum, one hand per thread, and they'll give you a good idea of how you should play the hands.
Yeah I think I will post some hands later. Thanks again.

Going to play a mini session now, will post results in a while.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:50 AM   #30
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

I think it's a good idea to let tourneys out for now. You might wanna play the next mFTOPs or something like that depending on your bankroll.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:33 AM   #31
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Nice work OP, interesting reading. GL

btw, how many tables are you running? Is it the 6 you mentioned? Also could we see some HEM stats from your sessions if poss.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:34 AM   #32
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Originally Posted by LygerWon View Post
Lol, he was SS and I figured he was c-betting most flops and there is no-one else in the pot so I figured flatting was good, 3betting from the blinds kind of turns my hand face up.

Check raised the turn so I can ship it on the river, I put him on an strong A at that stage
Your thought processes seem a little off.

If you're only 3betting AA/KK/QQ from the blinds then yes, your hand will be face up. If you're 3betting a wider range then you'll be getting more action more often. Only you know the dynamic of that hand, though...

As for putting him on a stronger Ace on the Turn - why? You have two Aces and there's one on the board. That leaves one possible in his hand, and so only four combos each of AK/AQ/AJ. Not impossible that he has air and trying to barrel you after playing passive preflop.

Having said that, Turn has to be a raise. The small raise has the benefit of keeping him in with his weaker holdings, although some of them may have a good chance of stacking you.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:37 AM   #33
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Thanks, seems like everyone is giving me the same advice, so I will take it on board.
Definitely.

That hand where you have AThh and make it 6.50 to go as a Flop 3bet is horrible. Make it 9.50.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:11 AM   #34
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Thanks for the input gguk, as I said I'll try to work on that aspect of my game.

@jarb88, yes I'm playing 6 tables at once.

I can post some HEM manager stats later, is there any in particular you want to see or just the basic VPIP/PFR/3bet/AG?

Just finished a short session, finished almost break even (up $3.13). Total BR now @ $621.51. I went on one 3 barrell bluff that didn't work, not usually part of my game, but I felt I could get him to fold

Going to post a hand in the MSNL forum now.
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:30 PM   #35
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Originally Posted by gguk2008 View Post
Your thought processes seem a little off.

If you're only 3betting AA/KK/QQ from the blinds then yes, your hand will be face up. If you're 3betting a wider range then you'll be getting more action more often. Only you know the dynamic of that hand, though...
You aren't 3-betting just to get action on big hands and it really doesn't work unless you're facing a reg. It's a flat out valuable move and many players don't react well to it. I 3-bet the button religiously. I 3-bet from the blinds when I have a hand that can play well in a 3-bet pot or against someone that folds their steal attempt often. I also steal a ton and don't fold my steals to 3-bets against players that try to resteal often. Again, many players are terrible in 3-bet pots and forcing them to play postflop after they 3-bet light is a great value play IF you know how to play those situations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LygerWon View Post
I can post some HEM manager stats later, is there any in particular you want to see or just the basic VPIP/PFR/3bet/AG?
You should post positional stats and then totals of VPIP, PFR, 3-bet, Steal. Then your flop and turn CB numbers.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:15 PM   #36
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Originally Posted by TwoThirtyTwo View Post
You aren't 3-betting just to get action on big hands and it really doesn't work unless you're facing a reg. It's a flat out valuable move and many players don't react well to it. I 3-bet the button religiously. I 3-bet from the blinds when I have a hand that can play well in a 3-bet pot or against someone that folds their steal attempt often. I also steal a ton and don't fold my steals to 3-bets against players that try to resteal often. Again, many players are terrible in 3-bet pots and forcing them to play postflop after they 3-bet light is a great value play IF you know how to play those situations.




You should post positional stats and then totals of VPIP, PFR, 3-bet, Steal. Then your flop and turn CB numbers.
Sound like you know what you are talking about, personally 3bet pots are probably my biggest leak.

Here are my positional stats, remember this is a small sample, I think my main stand out stat is probably that my turn c-bet is very low


By lygerwon at 2010-05-23
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:36 PM   #37
Grindaholik
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

gl
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:06 PM   #38
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

how can you stand to play 13/10 at 6 max?
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:21 PM   #39
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Originally Posted by peanutym View Post
how can you stand to play 13/10 at 6 max?
I'm playing full ring, lol.

Just finished another session, 735 hands, up $30.03, total BR @$651.54. This was the first session where I ran below all-in EV, but I'm happy I played well even after 1 particular bad beat posted below.


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $26.56
UTG+1: $66.49
UTG+2: $8.75
MP1: $29.60
MP2: $8.40
Hero (CO): $22.09
BTN: $14.23
SB: $25.10
BB: $51.41

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with A K
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.85) 9 A Q (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2.75, UTG+1 raises to $5.50, Hero raises to $20.34 all in, UTG+1 calls $14.84

Turn: ($44.53) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($44.53) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $44.53
UTG+1 shows T A (two pair, Aces and Tens)
Hero shows A K (a pair of Aces)
UTG+1 wins $42.31
(Rake: $2.22)
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:17 PM   #40
peanutym
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

k sorry, the positional stats only showed 6 spots, but i see the hand histories are full.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:30 AM   #41
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Finished another session, played bad but ran good, 508 hands, up $4.47.

Total Bankroll now at $656.51


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+2: $7.20
MP1: $9.20
MP2: $9.13
CO: $25.00
BTN: $25.00
SB: $25.00
Hero (BB): $25.57
UTG: $8.75
UTG+1: $36.84

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with Q Q
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.75, 3 folds, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to $2.75, UTG+2 raises to $7.20 all in, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.45

Flop: ($15.25) 6 6 5

Turn: ($15.25) 4

River: ($15.25) Q

Final Pot: $15.25
UTG+2 shows K K (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
Hero shows Q Q (a full house, Queens full of Sixes)
Hero wins $14.49
(Rake: $0.76)


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $8.25
UTG: $25.00
UTG+1: $6.35
MP1: $26.62
MP2: $25.00
CO: $29.89
Hero (BTN): $30.60
SB: $24.05

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with 9 9
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.53, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.53, 1 fold, BB calls $0.28

Flop: ($1.69) J 9 A (3 players)
BB bets $0.25, UTG+1 raises to $1.56, Hero calls $1.56, BB folds

Turn: ($5.06) 5 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $4.26 all in, Hero calls $4.26

River: ($13.58) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $13.58
UTG+1 shows J J (three of a kind, Jacks)
Hero shows 9 9 (three of a kind, Nines)
UTG+1 wins $12.91
(Rake: $0.67)


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $25.00
SB: $34.65
Hero (BB): $20.60
UTG: $27.39
UTG+1: $31.20
MP1: $25.00
MP2: $10.20
CO: $24.81

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with J K
6 folds, SB raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) T A Q (2 players)
SB bets $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, SB raises to $13.75, Hero raises to $19.85 all in, SB calls $6.10

Turn: ($41.20) 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($41.20) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $41.20
SB shows Q Q (three of a kind, Queens)
Hero shows J K (a straight, Ace high)
Hero wins $39.14
(Rake: $2.06)
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:24 PM   #42
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Played another 924 hands, up $29.05, was down about $35 for a while but grinded it back slowly, very happy with the last session.

Total BR @$685.66


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: $10.54
MP1: $27.59
MP2: $21.77
CO: $24.49
BTN: $24.25
SB: $29.59
BB: $11.22
Hero (UTG): $24.65

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with K K
Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $2.50, MP2 calls $2.50, 4 folds, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to $6.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $3.75

Flop: ($15.35) J 9 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $18.40 all in, MP2 calls $15.52 all in

Turn: ($46.39) J (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($46.39) 8 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $46.39
MP2 shows 9 9 (a full house, Nines full of Jacks)
Hero shows K K (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
MP2 wins $44.08
(Rake: $2.31)

damn fish



Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $9.85
Hero (UTG): $23.75
UTG+1: $25.00
MP1: $13.26
MP2: $28.48
CO: $9.01
BTN: $23.13
SB: $4.91

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with 8 8
Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75, 3 folds

Flop: ($2.60) 2 T 8 (3 players)
Hero bets $1.75, MP2 calls $1.75, CO calls $1.75

Turn: ($7.85) 5 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets $3, Hero raises to $10.25, MP2 folds, CO calls $3.51 all in

River: ($20.87) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $20.87
Hero shows 8 8 (three of a kind, Eights)
CO shows K T (a pair of Tens)
Hero wins $19.83
(Rake: $1.04)
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:22 PM   #43
TwoThirtyTwo
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Stats don't look bad. Your Flop CB is a little high and your Turn CB is a bit too low. Try to play the button more aggressively and take advantage of position. Don't force it though, just try to open up a little more when you have position.
Post stats again when you reach 15k hands.

What are your steal% from CO, BTN, and SB?
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:00 PM   #44
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoThirtyTwo View Post
Stats don't look bad. Your Flop CB is a little high and your Turn CB is a bit too low. Try to play the button more aggressively and take advantage of position. Don't force it though, just try to open up a little more when you have position.
Post stats again when you reach 15k hands.

What are your steal% from CO, BTN, and SB?
Yeah I was thinking my turn c-bet was a little low alright, might be just the small sample size.

My steal from CO, BTN and SB are 21.5, 32.2 and 46.0 respectively.

I'm at 5.6k hands now so I will post stats again in a few days.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:13 PM   #45
TwoThirtyTwo
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Good number from CO. Way low in the SB though. You can steal anything in the SB until the BB shows they won't let you. From the BTN it's a matter of opening up your range and using the advantage that having position gives you. You'll make enough stealing from the BTN and CBing flops to make up for times that you get 3-bet or check/raised and have to fold.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:25 PM   #46
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Originally Posted by TwoThirtyTwo View Post
Good number from CO. Way low in the SB though. You can steal anything in the SB until the BB shows they won't let you. From the BTN it's a matter of opening up your range and using the advantage that having position gives you. You'll make enough stealing from the BTN and CBing flops to make up for times that you get 3-bet or check/raised and have to fold.
Thanks for the advice, I have been limping in as SB v loose players a lot, should I still be raising these guys with 30-45 VPIP?
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:10 PM   #47
TwoThirtyTwo
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

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Originally Posted by LygerWon View Post
Thanks for the advice, I have been limping in as SB v loose players a lot, should I still be raising these guys with 30-45 VPIP?
Just fold or raise. If they're calling too often, tighten up your stealing range. If they're folding often, widen it to 100% if it's working. Depends on who the BB is.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:00 PM   #48
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Played 859 hands, won $21.56, really upped my turn c-bet % and lowered my flop c-bet a little. Seeing some good results because of it, thanks for the tip TwoThirtyTwo, tried stealing a bit more from the SB as well, but just got myself in trouble


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $30.54
BTN: $8.75
SB: $11.77
BB: $10.00
Hero (UTG): $24.62
UTG+1: $25.45
MP1: $11.15
MP2: $7.40

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with K A
Hero raises to $0.75, 6 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.60) K A 6 (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero raises to $3.25, BB raises to $9.25 all in, Hero calls $6

Turn: ($20.10) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($20.10) J (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $20.10
BB shows 8 A (a flush, Ace high)
Hero shows K A (two pair, Aces and Kings)
BB wins $19.10
(Rake: $1.00)




Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $39.76
SB: $25.00
BB: $34.36
UTG: $30.76
UTG+1: $9.54
UTG+2: $24.75
MP1: $22.25
MP2: $22.46
CO: $26.76

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with Q Q
UTG raises to $1, 5 folds, Hero calls $1, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($4.00) J 9 Q (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $3.25, SB calls $3.25, BB folds, UTG folds

Turn: ($10.50) 8 (2 players)
SB bets $6, Hero calls $6

River: ($22.50) 9 (2 players)
SB bets $14.75 all in, Hero calls $14.75

Final Pot: $52.00
Hero shows Q Q (a full house, Queens full of Nines)
SB shows T T (a straight, Queen high)
Hero wins $49.40
(Rake: $2.60)
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:51 PM   #49
TwoThirtyTwo
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Example of a few of the bad ones? Hand and stats on the player in the BB.

It can be high variance, but the way I see it... Whether you steal 40% or 100% few BBs actually adjust to the high steal rate. If the player has a high VPIP, close up your stealing range some. Some players think raising more on their SB steal will get more folds, but that's something I always targeted because it's 1bb more than normal. I like raising 2.5xbb from the SB, it lessens the % you have to be successful while still not making it "just 1 more bb" with a min-bet where some players just call with practically anything and cause you some problems... You're looking to get as many folds as possible while giving yourself the best results. 3xbb is what most raise to steal, 4xbb is bad because it's unnecessary risk and doesn't get enough folds more to justify doing it.

For C-bets, you should add fold to flop CB and fold to turn CB stats to your HUD. It's easy to exploit players who float and fold turns. If they rarely fold the turn after calling a flop you'll know to stop firing. If they rarely fold flop, but fold the turn often you know it's someone good to fire 2 streets on with the expected value of their fold on the turn. Just make sure you're looking at a decent sample size and not 2-3 hands worth of information.
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:56 PM   #50
LygerWon
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Re: $500 to $5k this summer

Most of them I got 3bet pre and just folded, then I made a 4bet with TT and the guy 5bets me. Just bad timing I guess.

Played 663 hands tonight, won $19.50, was up more then lost a bit making stupid plays, I seem to play better/more solid when stuck sometimes. Its supposed to be the other way around!


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (UTG): $27.22
UTG+1: $28.12
MP1: $20.54
MP2: $17.34
CO: $8.75
BTN: $25.23
SB: $25.67
BB: $33.29

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with K A
Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.75, MP2 calls $0.75, CO requests TIME, CO calls $0.75, BTN calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($4.60) 2 7 Q (6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3, MP1 calls $3, MP2 folds, CO folds, BTN folds, BB folds

Turn: ($10.60) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP1 calls $5

River: ($20.60) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $12, MP1 calls $11.79 all in

Final Pot: $44.18
Hero shows K A (a flush, Ace high)
MP1 mucks 2 2
Hero wins $41.98
(Rake: $2.20)


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (CO): $25.79
BTN: $26.91
SB: $29.48
BB: $14.44
UTG: $46.60
UTG+1: $24.69
MP1: $8.05
MP2: $28.42

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with A J
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, SB calls $0.65, BB calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50

Flop: ($3.00) 7 9 J (4 players)
SB bets $0.25, BB calls $0.25, UTG+1 raises to $3, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $3, SB folds, BB folds

Turn: ($9.50) 7 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $4, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $4

River: ($17.50) 9 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $9.99, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $9.99

Final Pot: $37.48
Hero mucks A J
UTG+1 shows J J (a full house, Jacks full of Nines)
UTG+1 wins $35.61
(Rake: $1.87)

Pretty sick hand, I put him on quads or jack full, but considering there was only 3 possible combos I had to call

Total BR now @ $726.78
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