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Old 01-30-2017, 03:02 AM   #1
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10K On The Table

My goal is to turn a solid profit playing the big mix at Commerce. I moved to Los Angeles from Chicago not long ago, and the mix here includes a lot of games I'm much less familiar with. The games being played include:

HORSE + PLO, 2-7 NLSD, Big O, PLO8, 2-7 Triple Draw, A-5 TD, 2-6 TD, A-4 TD, Badugi, Badaci, Badaci A-4, Badeucey, Badeucey 2-6, Super Razzdeucy or daci, 2-7 Razz, Stud No Qualifier, and Archie. I'm pretty good at at least HORSE hahaha.

I plan to update by session with a picture at the very least. I'm driving back from Vegas tonight, and should be getting to work ASAP.

Fingers crossed!
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:31 AM   #2
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Re: 10K On The Table

Explain razzdeucey and Archie plz

Gl bud
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:33 AM   #3
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Re: 10K On The Table

Quite interested in this! No one else around here plays serious mixed games.

Didn't even know something like badacey played A-4. This means it's a 4 card qualifier vs 5 card for the non badugi part of pot? Time I played badacey it was just A-5 split pot with badugi.

Is 2-7 razz a draw game or stud game? What's Archie?

Vaguely remember what happened last time you did one of these... so good luck if you need it!
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:49 AM   #4
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Re: 10K On The Table

In!
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:52 AM   #5
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Re: 10K On The Table

In b4 epic thread
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:48 AM   #6
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Re: 10K On The Table

U sold bracelet yet?
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:17 AM   #7
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Re: 10K On The Table

Day #1


Really bad lineup most of the day with Kenny Tran, Marco Johnson, John Monette, Eric Wasserson, Matt Szymaszek, and a friend who might not want to be named.

Made too many mistakes early on not giving myself enough time to think things through, and didn't make many hands, but found a small win still.



+3,775

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Explain razzdeucey and Archie plz

Gl bud
Sure.

Razzdeucey is a split pot game dealt in Stud format, where half the pot goes to the best deuce to seven hand, and half the pot goes to the best badugi hand. The Ace plays high instead of low, so the best hand you can make is 2345(rainbow)7.

Razzdeucey and Razzdugi ( A-5 instead of 2-7 ) are legit bad games compared to Razz and 2-7 Razz. This is more the case for Razzdugi. It becomes less correct to steal wider, and the ways you are supposed to be able to open up hand selections because of badugi equity still have you playing defensively most of the time.

For instance, in Razz I could steal with a hand like (J5)6 through two low doors and expect to win enough of the time in reasonable ante structures to turn a profit, but in Razzdugi if I have (Jh5c)6c the badugi equity of my 2 card Jh5c makes it less correct to go for the steal. And sure maybe now I can play rougher low hands with a 3 card badugi, but I still have to play defensively versus a strong low board, so there's not a ton of incentive to be in there.

If you play the "Super" version you start with 4 cards down instead of two and discard 2, so there are increased opportunities to begin with playable hands. It's more nut peddling, but the game doesn't generate enough action otherwise unless you have real action heroes around.

Archie is a 5 card triple draw split pot game with half of the pot going to the best high hand ( you need sixes or better generally to qualify ), and half to the best low hand ( need to make an 8 or better to qualify ). If nobody makes a low then the best high wins. You don't need sixes or better if no-one makes a low.

This game picked up steam arounds last year's WSOP, but I've played very little of it.

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Originally Posted by FreeAsTheBird View Post
Quite interested in this! No one else around here plays serious mixed games.

Didn't even know something like badacey played A-4. This means it's a 4 card qualifier vs 5 card for the non badugi part of pot? Time I played badacey it was just A-5 split pot with badugi.

Is 2-7 razz a draw game or stud game? What's Archie?

Vaguely remember what happened last time you did one of these... so good luck if you need it!
Thanks, the Commerce guys started playing 4 card Triple Draw variations last year I think. So yeah, A-4 and 2-6 Badaci and Badeucey are just 4 card variations of the original split pot game.

2-7 razz is Stud format, and Archie is explained in a previous reply.

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In!
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In b4 epic thread
Thanks for the company guys!

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U sold bracelet yet?
Not yet, soon tho =)

Gonna try and get a few hours rest before the next one.
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:52 AM   #8
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Re: 10K On The Table

in, gl

enjoyed your previous thread a lot!
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Old 02-01-2017, 01:25 PM   #9
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Re: 10K On The Table

Thanks man, I appreciate it!

Heading off to battle; check you guys later.
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Old 02-02-2017, 03:39 PM   #10
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Re: 10K On The Table

Really disappointed with my complete performance for the second day straight. I'm struggling to find a full day's worth of thoughtful decisions, focus, and feel weaker in the game than I ought to because of it.

With the LAPC gaining steam it's becoming harder to get in the big game without some real legwork or a hotel room unfortunately, so the next month should prove interesting.

I also need to do a better job of not feeling obligated to keep the game running when 4 people decide to click sit out for a few hours, until people they want to play with come back to the table. There's some real professional game walking, and blind skipping being utilized which is something I've never participated in, but hours of 3 handed with Monette and Tommy Hang is flipping at best. Since the game changes every 8 hands, I would argue that you're not getting a large enough sample in any one game to "pay for the education" or whatever.



day +4,048

total +7,823
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Old 02-02-2017, 03:46 PM   #11
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Re: 10K On The Table

Pros pulling that **** that is horrible for the game should be ostracized.
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:02 PM   #12
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Re: 10K On The Table

without being too specific, where did you move to in la?
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:57 PM   #13
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Re: 10K On The Table

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Pros pulling that **** that is horrible for the game should be ostracized.
Agreed, but nothing the players can really do about it for political reasons within the game. I just need to minimize its impact on me the best I can.

The biggest current concern is making it in the game, which is a whole day ordeal, and way harder when you've got a family you're looking after.

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without being too specific, where did you move to in la?
Yeah that's no prob, we live in West Hollywood. I'm hoping to move to another area at some point this year. This area is murdery like Chicago and angley like Vegas, and I've seen no less than 4 different homeless guys jerking off on abandoned couches.

I'd guess we'll look at Silverlake, Santa Monica, and Burbank ( where my gf works ).
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:10 AM   #14
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Re: 10K On The Table

Word. I've been living in dtla for the past year with my friend at gould law.

I've lived in la since 2010 in my first year of college, of those three choices, i'd go SM or Silverlake. Silverlake is much more conv to dtla area activities including bike+commerce but personally not really my thing, it's not murder-y like your current area but aesthetically pretty much the same but slightly more spread out.

Santa Monica is great except the 10 moves at 9mph from centennial or whatever it is all the way through dtla from 7-9am and again from like 4-7. If that doesnt affect you much I think it's the farthest you can get from the hobo jerkin.

Fun note- one time junior year we drove through our back lot and saw a homeless woman pooping our neighbors back driveway, made eye contact, wouldn't recommend
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:58 PM   #15
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Re: 10K On The Table

Showed up Friday but couldn't get into the game. I decided to skip traffic and head home after 4 hours of playing some 40/80 when it was clear nobody would be moving for a while.

Theres a player who comes in for a few hours late in the night that the game is running for. So around 4 I would expect my seat to open, and 3 of us would be playing while the rest of the table takes fake phone calls, and swap out their Bellagio flags, until the lineup looks reasonable again. Funnily enough the "VIP" is beating the game for six figures since his return. Pros are overrated.

I think I'm going to use the weekend to sort some stuff out and get a hotel for the rest of Feb at Commerce to try and fade the bullsh*t. More 10KOTT soon I hope.

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Fun note- one time junior year we drove through our back lot and saw a homeless woman pooping our neighbors back driveway, made eye contact, wouldn't recommend
Haha, I've seen some real-time squats in Chicago, one was outside of a hot dog spot legit 2 car lengths from a occupied patrol car; also a woman.

Thanks for the suggestions, we will probably look to get it done after WSOP settles. Downtown feels sketchy as f*ck at night. Like way more Day of the Dead than NYC or Chicago.

if you see me at Commerce feel free to say hey.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:20 PM   #16
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Re: 10K On The Table

glgl

Hope you make some bucks.

Hotel is fine if it helps you get in when the game is good, and lets you get out when it's bad. If it tempts you to stick around when there's nothing really primo going on, it's dangerous. But I think you prolly already have that part figured out....
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:07 PM   #17
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Re: 10K On The Table

nice thread, easier to comment here than on twitter!

so yeah, as i alluded to earlier, seems like the politics/getting into games seems like a real pain in the ass. for example, the game starts in the afternoon and at 9pm if it seems like the VIP isn't showing and everyone is scumming/skipping. what kind of game selection choices do you have if you don't wanna play the 4/8 anymore? are there 1/2 and 2/4 stud or holdem games, or do you have to jump into the 40 80 games? and say you play those games, how easy is it to get a seat in a white chip game? do you have to sit in a 40 game for five hours as all the regs who bribe floorpeople get into decent seats? that part seems like a nightmare to me.
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Old 02-06-2017, 12:26 PM   #18
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Re: 10K On The Table

(obviously referring to LAPC environment. I assume things are easier to manage when that cools off)
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:09 PM   #19
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Re: 10K On The Table

Glad I posted in the other thread. Will follow
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:46 AM   #20
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Re: 10K On The Table

Day #3

​On Monday I decided not to risk being shut out of the game again and woke up at 5:30 in the morning to make sure I was there when the floorman clears the board. You cannot call in from outside of the casino to be put on the list, and rooms are currently $200-300 a night, although it's probably the way to go.

I drove down, and saw a 400/800 game going from the night before that was full ( Shoutout to Dan Zack and Mr. Jungleman ). Part of the lineup included regulars from our morning game, so at this point I'm concerned this 400/800 might interfere with our normal game, and I'm going to find my way outside of the game once again. I drove an hour back home to see my girlfriend off to work, went for a run, and got as much as I could done before driving back to the Commerce in time for the AM game. I'm feeling pretty overworked at this point, and I have yet to play a hand of poker.

When I returned to the casino, the 400/800 game that had been running all night, had been bumped up to 500/1000, and was looking like a nice place to be. With some of our normal group grinding that game, our 400/800 actually began on time 4 handed, so my morning roadwork was essentially pointless.

Maybe I'm supposed to suffer a little for my money!? Maybe today I've earned my keep!? For the first 45 minutes I was the only player that didn't win a hand past the flop.

It's a funny thing to find yourself properly buried in a fast-action short-handed game, then immediately the table fills, and begins to move at a crawl. Perhaps I can get even by dinner.

I've scribbled a graph below to give you a proper indication of how the day went. There was a point towards the end where I would go card dead for a long stretch before finally being dealt a speculative hand that I would inevitably wind up playing, and losing, as if it were a test from the poker gods that I continuously failed. My punishment was being sent back into card dead limbo until I could resist the forbidden apple that is 245K with a suit from the HJ in Omaha 8. It's the best hand I've seen all night, let me tell'ya...



23 hours of awake that set a destructive precedent for the week. I missed Tues collecting my broken down car. On Wednesday I sat in the car at 6am, and just couldn't bring myself to do the drive there-back-there again, so I showed up 30 minutes from game time, and was shut out accordingly. I drove back home and spent the last few days looking after my sick girlfriend.

I've got a new approach for today, and if this one doesn't work, I will have an apartment and a hotel room in Los Angeles.



day -4,900

total +2,923
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:00 PM   #21
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Re: 10K On The Table

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat Mack View Post
glgl

Hope you make some bucks.

Hotel is fine if it helps you get in when the game is good, and lets you get out when it's bad. If it tempts you to stick around when there's nothing really primo going on, it's dangerous. But I think you prolly already have that part figured out....
Thanks boss, yeah, I think I will probably wind up spending the cash for a week to see how it plays out. Thanks for stopping in =)

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nice thread, easier to comment here than on twitter!

so yeah, as i alluded to earlier, seems like the politics/getting into games seems like a real pain in the ass. for example, the game starts in the afternoon and at 9pm if it seems like the VIP isn't showing and everyone is scumming/skipping. what kind of game selection choices do you have if you don't wanna play the 4/8 anymore? are there 1/2 and 2/4 stud or holdem games, or do you have to jump into the 40 80 games? and say you play those games, how easy is it to get a seat in a white chip game? do you have to sit in a 40 game for five hours as all the regs who bribe floorpeople get into decent seats? that part seems like a nightmare to me.
Thanks Clayton!

I think it would not be too difficult to move to a 75/150 mix 100/200 stud or PLO if I wanted to change tables, but I'm really just hoping everyone sits down and plays our game. I really would try my best to avoid losing my seat. Eventually the game runs the way it's supposed to but there are only a handful of people that don't skip games. Besides, often times you'll move to a full table, head to the restroom for a hand and come back to ghosts. It's just the way things are there.

I'm still searching for the best way to get in the game without a room, bribe, or 3 car rides.

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Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
(obviously referring to LAPC environment. I assume things are easier to manage when that cools off)
From my experience yeah.

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Glad I posted in the other thread. Will follow
Thanks! =)
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:59 PM   #22
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Re: 10K On The Table

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Really disappointed with my complete performance for the second day straight. I'm struggling to find a full day's worth of thoughtful decisions, focus, and feel weaker in the game than I ought to because of it.

With the LAPC gaining steam it's becoming harder to get in the big game without some real legwork or a hotel room unfortunately, so the next month should prove interesting.

I also need to do a better job of not feeling obligated to keep the game running when 4 people decide to click sit out for a few hours, until people they want to play with come back to the table. There's some real professional game walking, and blind skipping being utilized which is something I've never participated in, but hours of 3 handed with Monette and Tommy Hang is flipping at best. Since the game changes every 8 hands, I would argue that you're not getting a large enough sample in any one game to "pay for the education" or whatever.



day +4,048

total +7,823
Cool thread.

I really empathise with the 'when 4 people decide to click sit out..' part. We play a regular £10/25 or £25/50 PLO here in London. In order to keep some sort of normal schedule I try to start my sessions in the daytime and often doing this means either starting a game or keeping a game going with 5 regs. What I find is that none of the regs want to play @ that point as they're approach to professionalism is that yes keeping a game alive to see if any fun players take empty seats it's worthwhile but the prospect of losing money in solely a reg line up must make them suicidal. What results is plenty of going for walks and in the hands they play they basically take all action of the game and try to keep pots below 20bb, in these spots i've always stayed because I don't want to have to leave and come back later (let's face it i'm lazy and travelling around London sucks) but I think just keeping a game going in these spots is kinda pointless as the only guys who actually play are going to be the best 1 or 2 players.

Anyway, gl and will be following!
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Old 02-11-2017, 02:17 PM   #23
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Re: 10K On The Table

re: day 3, maybe the best plan is to just leave at 9pm unless there is a whale in the game? not sure what the traffic situation is like but it sounds like you gotta punt the value of 10pm-4am if you want any semblance of regularity.

either that or you gotta get a room there. just sucks because it means you turn into a commerce zombie (and the gf prob wouldnt like it as much lol). hearing about people like seiver pull 46 hour sessions or w/e makes sense in the context of this crazy schedule where games run 18 hrs with strict start-times.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:41 PM   #24
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Re: 10K On The Table

Gl man, excited to follow this thread. do you have a favorite game in the mix? would you go on chicagojoeys podcast?
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:51 PM   #25
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Re: 10K On The Table

[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAisaOK View Post
Cool thread.

I really empathise with the 'when 4 people decide to click sit out..' part. We play a regular £10/25 or £25/50 PLO here in London. In order to keep some sort of normal schedule I try to start my sessions in the daytime and often doing this means either starting a game or keeping a game going with 5 regs. What I find is that none of the regs want to play @ that point as they're approach to professionalism is that yes keeping a game alive to see if any fun players take empty seats it's worthwhile but the prospect of losing money in solely a reg line up must make them suicidal. What results is plenty of going for walks and in the hands they play they basically take all action of the game and try to keep pots below 20bb, in these spots i've always stayed because I don't want to have to leave and come back later (let's face it i'm lazy and travelling around London sucks) but I think just keeping a game going in these spots is kinda pointless as the only guys who actually play are going to be the best 1 or 2 players.

Anyway, gl and will be following!
Yeah, sounds pretty much spot on the same for the most part, thanks for relating with your experience. I guess the main difference between us is we aren't playing our main game during shorthanded periods. So there are plenty of opportunities to struggle through a few rounds of some game one of us is far worse in. Another would be that a large chunk of our games are split pot, which can lower some of the variance other times.

It seems like the best approach in my spot would be to excel at all of the one winner games shorthanded. LHE, 2-7 TD, 2-7SD, Stud, and Badugi might be the most important probably close to that order. PLO not so much given the lack of antes.

Thanks for stopping in friend, I was bummed to read your OP, but looking forward to catching up with your adventure ( no spoilers please ). Best of luck to us both!

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re: day 3, maybe the best plan is to just leave at 9pm unless there is a whale in the game? not sure what the traffic situation is like but it sounds like you gotta punt the value of 10pm-4am if you want any semblance of regularity.

either that or you gotta get a room there. just sucks because it means you turn into a commerce zombie (and the gf prob wouldnt like it as much lol). hearing about people like seiver pull 46 hour sessions or w/e makes sense in the context of this crazy schedule where games run 18 hrs with strict start-times.
Yeah, the gf and dogs thing definitely plays a huge roll. It's fun to see guys like Dan Zack grinding like a mother****er. I think leaving early is a considerable option, but usually the games get pretty good late. I'm thinking of just finding a good time to show up early without having to leave that somehow still makes the list. Or maybe I just skip the morning game altogether.

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Gl man, excited to follow this thread. do you have a favorite game in the mix? would you go on chicagojoeys podcast?
Lately it's been Archie. There are lots of fun dynamics, and amazing opportunities to balance and disguise in weird ways. I'd like to share some fun ones, but I think its a bad idea at this moment. Razz is probably my best, but you don't get to see too many of the fun spots that I'm more familiar than most other players. PLO is probably the one I'm able to best exploit my edge in, although sometimes I get myself into trouble with the cap.

I wanted to do CJ in 2014 and we discussed it, he said I was doing too many interviews, and I was put off by that since I consider us friends, and without trying to sound like d*ck, think I have some fun stories etc. We've, I think, sorted out our stuff more recently, but I don't know how I feel about going on there at this point, or how he feels about having me on - It really bummed me out. Thanks tho, nice to have you here!
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