in b4 busto

How many bullets at a max?

Gl luck with your challenge, I am sure you will make it as long as you don't swap funds with brad booth

I'm interested in betting that Doug will not be able to turn a single $100 deposit into $10,000.

I will give someone +150 on a $200 wager. If you lose you owe me $200 if you win I will pay you $300.

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+1 to using ACR instead of WSOP
-Get yourself a better rakeback account on an other skin of the network(represents what lower stake grinders do)
-Play against bots and eastern euro microstakes "pros", wsop should not have any bots and its basically the same as poker was 7years ago, massive fishies and regs at 200nl that would not beat 25nl on ACR for the most part.


You can't consider this a challenge unless you play against bots, most microstakes thread you will find on this site, the biggest challenge they have is always playing against Russians with 51+ WWSF, 4.0+ aggro and 75% cbet(always bots).

Having done your challenge myself this year i can safely say that the only difficulty i encountered was the bots, the humans regs are awful and fish plentiful but the bots lower your winrate/augment your tilt by a lot.

Please consider playing on a site filled with bots like the rest of us.

Hahaha the bots aren't that good.

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Gl, will be interesting to see how smooth it goes for you.

Okay Doug,

I bet money on you...... please don't lose ^^

doesnt matter what is your opinion is on bots that beat midstakes for 5bb+
even if those massively winning bots were horrible, they add a major problem to those trying to beat microstakes with 10-12bb/100 in rake paid compared to 1bb rake at higher stakes

No one has a high enough edge 6+ tabling micro stakes with 10+bb rake to win much long term vs anyone that isnt tilting or spewing hard. Now add a non tilting, solidish bot, well your winrate at that table is pretty much **** unless you have the jesus seat on a fish and even then, since they are 3betting and building large bots constantly against you, you are paying even more rake vs them than you would vs more passive players which lowers the edge you can have on them if you were good enough to be better than a 5bb winning bots from 2/4-5/10(these bots were put at lower limits everywhere)

It used to be dumb to 2-4 table at micro stakes because you could simply load a ton of tables(just as on WSOP) and be massively profitable especially with good rakeback. Nowadays if you play at the hours the bots are on, its completely useless as you destroy your winrate.

having tried all the sites at micro stakes(25 and 50), i can say stars is the only site people can have easy success multi tabling at the micros without a good run. Other sites you have to bumhunt, a lot. The only difference with all the sites and stars is that most bots are quickly banned.


tldr; **** the bots, even if you think they suck, they kill your winrate by creating more spots where more rake is paid

^very good post, to further expand it, it makes cash microstakes very tedious to grind through and most people just lose interest when it doesnt move forward as much as they like to(think that these guys grind 2 to 3 hours top each night after work, WHILE also working their game), most winnings keeps getting raked and the variance becomes huge. NOONE doesnt think polk wouldnt outrank these bots, its laughable to think otherwise, but they will make the winnings-expectation to go down by a whole lot. Botusers doesn´t care, they can happily look at wr+rb=profit after having their bot cramming out a million hands in three months.

Aside from regulations, scandals and all those things this is the biggest damage done to the "poker ecosystem" from a regs point of view, bots and the lack of protection from it by sites coupled with the sites desire to turn poker into casino with never ending rake increases etc ( sorry timstone but coaching/videos is like fourth in my book), this in turn makes the influx of new shottakers at midstakes(i mean regs now, or aspiring to be regs) very low, so it gets stalemate there and this is obviously gonna affect highstakes in similar way. Games only run at highstakes now around fish, all the regs that are there have been there for years and very few break it through, those who do are not getting shut down in the same rate as they did before because those who DO break through are obviously so damn good and proven to be good over a huge amount of time/volume as people arent running it up due to soft games anymore. Jungle would always be jungling while myself wouldn't make it through to midstakes today if I started fresh and without the knowledge I have today. I just wouldn't learn quick enough.

Shottakers all over the stakes, at all the sites were a thing, and it was a pretty good spot for regs as there was this clear skill-difference between them or atleast scared money. Now its like "oh hes a reg, sit out". Noone cares about looking them up if they are actually a decent reg or not, reg is a reg. There isnt a middleground until you hit upper midstakes as the competition for the tables start to come back.


For myself, if I were to do a similar challenge, huhypers/spins through the micros would be the by far quickest way for me despite that gameformat is infested with belarusians and bots as it is obviously more solveable for a bot its just way easier to achieve a solid winrate i think and games are infinite there.

WCG would make such a smooth ride in huhypers/turbos if he just worked on his lategame/high blind preflop game for like an hour lol, his postflop game is obviously rad and that alone would take him through but with a smaller winrate. His preflopgame was evidently lacking the fundamentals when he played old time gin, as his opponent also so kindly pointed out several times. Just hit huhypers/turbos until you are ready for NL100z or something and take it from there, mtts can be quicker but it are going to be slower about 90% of the time i think


either way, gl brah and i hope you crush it. it would be somewhat good for poker, i mean it wont convince anyone pessimistic about it since youre worldclass, youre expected to crush. If you do not crush it, that would be AWFUL for poker in the same pessimists eyes even if its just because of sick sick variance unfortunatly.

Want to say thanks for all the positive feedback.

As far as the bots go, I have no idea what botting is like at what stakes and on what sites. So I don't have a comment on that and it is going to play 0% of a role in what I decide to do.

I have decided on WSOP instead of ACR, I don't see that changing unless I cannot get the action on WSOP.

Are you still going to play all sessions by the anti euro hours ? wouldn't mind one or two sessions during the challenge in decent CET hours so I get to fanboy the chat abit

in, GL!

Good luck Doug. I enjoy watching your streams alot.

theres an outside shot some sessions run so late they go into the morning CET. But other then that no, this is going to be a bad time slot (sorry!).

interesting.

Won't be as good as verneer's challenges.

Are you mainly planning on doing 6m or hu? Nlhe or plo? Or just the best games you can find?

Im very curious to what this challenge is about then?

You state in your post that you chose 100$ because more people can relate and those people are in turn the same kind that would buy whatever you are selling.

The problem is that, these people will end up playing on a site where at 25, 10 and even 5nl they will have 3 bots, 1 reg and maybe a fish on their tables. Over 6 tables they woud have maybe 2 big fish and the rest would be fishes that watch the WPT and know basic poker strat. They might have a few decent bots and a few bad ones.

While what you would be showing in your challenge is you with 4 other fishes. Your customers will never experiment 4 tabling with constant options to isolate 3-4 limpers, they will not be able to check back flops without getting overbet on the turn and potted on the river, etc etc.

If you want to sell a product to beginners, you need to make your product/challenge accurate. WSOP is a joke, a decent 200nl grinder with average luck would make it in maybe 60k hands as the games from 50nl to 200nl are the exact same on WSOP.


I still think about greg merson's streams on WSOP.. Tables with 3 fish at 2/4 and regs that would be considered fish with reggish stats on regular sites.

What you are doing is similar to Bovada grinders trash talking/offering propbets(them on bovada, other guy on stars). It's scummy.

In ofc, glgl doug!!!

Wsop site sounds dreamy, where do I sign up

Thought the same thing but you have to live in new jersey

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Ah it's that site , the us state version of svenska spel, the Swedish only site. Makes all the sense in the world that smallstakes and midstakes are soft af there. With very high median income and aprox the same population as Sweden.

svenska spel when it rolled out was putting online poker back in toughness with half a decade for us swedes. It was 2005/6 in 2010. Only now i
2015+ the feeling is gone in midstakes, it's quite dead. Small and micros is juiciest online still.

Regulation is great when it hits high median income places for those living there in a self serving sense. Been saying for years that as an American the dream come true would be nationwide regulation(for highstakes, midstakes and lowstakes world be better of statewide if one was living in one of the richer states), no state in us can keep hs alive alone I think, maybe better than current stars though if deposits were done in 3minutes like on other regulated sites , esp since its demographic grindergroup will be more prone to move around then the rest. us only, ya it ain't right but it would make pokers for those living there sick again.

Ye I'm not really interested in seeing doug run it up against on some fishy site that nobody plays on, I want to see it happen in tougher player pools full of Russian and ukraine regs that most of us have to suffer with in the micros.

Russian and Ukraine regs aren't better than other regs guys, there are just not many fishes from these countries