This is exactly what I am doing right now :\

9-man


Cash


This really makes me sick because it takes much time to win at those sngs than to lose at cash tables

Wow, you are very kind answering that very long thread. I'm going to re-read it a few times and try to learn from it and probably have another question or two.

Meanwhile, your Steelers! What a game against the Ravens, that was simply an incredible change in momentum after Ray Rice fumbled. I couldn't believe it was happening, to be honest. The wheels fell off... The Jets game was a big win, but beating the Ravens twice is the reason you guys are in the Superbowl.

As for the Packers, yes, they are absolutely loaded. I hope the Steelers learn from the Bears though. Bears weren't ready to play in the first quarter and were down 14 points early. From that point on, the Packers didn't score on offense the rest of the game. Why? The blitz. That is how you beat the Packers. Go man-to-man against the wideouts and blitz the hell out of Rodgers. As amazing as he is, once he starts hitting the ground, he's human and starts rushing it, loosing his rythm. I'm sure that's what Tomlin is going to order.

Sorry forum readers..back to poker and WhirlingDervish.

Lol. Cash games play differently than shove n folds?

Well...looks like it, at least..

This thread is such a great learning tool for me. Thanks WhirlingDervish for all the excellent posts and insight, i really have enjoyed reading up to this point.

Taking notes is a big part of my game. Notes can offer me specifics that HUD statistics alone can't. They also need less of a sample size to be accurate; it may take several hundred hands for a distribution to become meaningful, but if I see a guy opening from early position with Q-9 suited once, I already know he's got loose positional requirements and I can take advantage of that immediately.
As poker players, we all have tools in our bags, from the slowplay to the triple-barrel bluff. But these tools are only effective if used in the right situations against the right players. Your sniper rifle isn't going to help you in a close-quarters skirmish, and your pistol isn't going to help you in a long-distance shootout. But notes can tell you when and where to use which tools, and make them much more effective.
For much of a tournament, your notes might not help you. But if a note can win you just one critical pot late in a tournament, it can make all the difference. Don't take my word for it; as Spacegravy said in his recent 1,000th post thread, "(I) don't use a HUD, I have tons of notes on all of the regs and can get reads quickly on the fish."


So what's the best way to take notes? I don't know. Everyone has their own way of doing things that works for them. But I will tell you how I take notes, and maybe you can incorporate some of those ideas in to your own system.

The first thing I want to do is find out if a player is good or not. I do this through a site called sharkscope.com, which most players are familiar with. Sharkscope will give you 5 free searches per day, and you have to pay for more. I pay $9.99 for 200 searches, and this lasts me several months. This is because I don't search every player I come across; I don't worry about the randoms I see on occasion, or players I see making foolish mistakes - I already know they're bad, and I don't need to spend my searches to confirm that. I search the players I see on a consistent basis, and players that I don't recognize that are signed up for many tournaments. When you search players, filter for the game you're playing; I play 9-handed STT's, so I filter for those games so that I have a more accurate idea of how good a player is at those games. On FullTilt, you can color-code your opponents; I use green for the goods regs, yellow for the decent/breakeven regs, orange for slight losers and red for fish. It's important to know by looking at a lobby what mix of good and bad players are registered. It doesn't matter what colors you use, all that matters is that you have a system that shows you at a glance who the good players and bad players are. That's the first piece of the puzzle.

Example: I sharkscope Player X who has a 4% ROI in 13,000 games at $50 average stake. His average ROI is 4%, and he's up $26,000. I'd color him yellow (for decent reg) and my note would be something to the effect of "4% ROI at $50 in 13k g. +26k." Now I know he's a solid, but not amazing regular.

The next thing we try to find out is what it is that makes them good or bad. Bad players in particular come in all different shapes and sizes. Some are way too loose, some are way too tight. Some bluff too much, some are loose callers, etc etc. The good regs tend to be some form of tight-aggressive, so you'll want to mostly focus on their betting patters and how wide they shove/call.

The notes I take can be broken down into two different categories - personality tells and bet-sizing tells.

Personality tells:

Personality tells are clues about what kind of person/player you're dealing with. As with most notes, the first time I see something, I'll usually follow it up with a ?. Now I know to look for it, and the next time I see it, I'll usually just erase the ? and leave it as a statement unless I see something to change my mind.

*Loose callers: The other day, I made a river bluff on a guy who called me with a pair of queens on a K-Q-10-9-8 board that had 3 diamonds. Instead of getting mad, I just made a note "loose caller?". When I saw him make another real loose call 2 hands later, I replaced the ? with a !, because I was now sure he loved to call. Now I knew never to bluff this man, and never to slowplay him. What I can do is valuebet him relentlessly - even thinly on the river, knowing he will definitely be calling me with worse hands.

*Loose preflop players: Very closely tied to loose callers. Usually one in the same, but not always. Say I see a guy open from UTG with A-9os early in the tourney. I know he's loose preflop and plays weak hands from weak positions. A real player wouldn't do that. Or I see UTG raise and the guy in 3rd pos flats. At showdown, the guy in the 3-seat shows Q-10 suited. I know he's loose. Even though these are only single instances, they're hopeless plays a good STT would never make, so I know this player isn't one. I'd make a note like "opened from UTG w A9os", to give myself an example of what kind of hand he'll play from what position. Usually you should stay away from early position raisers if you don't hold a premium hand yourself, but against a player like this, you can start calling his raises in position with hands like A-J and 3-bet him lighter later in the tournament (if he's still around ).

*How wide they shove/call shoves: It also helps to know how wide your opponents will shove. If you see a guy shove with rags with 4 bb's, that's pretty standard. But if you see a guy shoving with 2-2 with 12 bb's, or J-7 with 10 bb's, you know he likes to shove fairly wide and you can note that ("shoved on BB from SB with J-7os @ 10bbs"). If you get a couple examples of this, you can get a good idea of someone's shoving range at certain points.
Also, some players like to resteal wide later in tournaments, especially from the blinds. Make note of this and be prepared to call wider when they reshove on you. These pots tend to be very big at occur and critical junctures, so this knowledge is important.

*Overly tight players: Most helpful is to know when a player will let you steal his blinds, and only put up a fight with premium hands. This is information you don't want to abuse too early in a tournament - save it for later when the blinds are big and every pot is critical. This way, it will take him much longer to figure out that you're stealing from him, because you haven't been doing in constantly up to that point.

*HBLs: Or high-blind limpers, as Moshman calls them. These are the guys who will limp for 200 when they have 1200 in their stack. It's important to categorize these guys because you can take advantage of them quite easily - just try to note if they like to limp/call or limp/fold. If it's the former, you can push on them widely for value in situations when you would normally be wary (say with a hands that have decent showdown value over hands they're limping with, such as K-Q or A-5) to isolate them, or if it's the latter, you can shove wider as a semibluff with hands like small pairs and suited connectors knowing they're likely to fold (these kinds of hands would be poorer to shove with against the kind who like to call).


Bet sizing tells:

All people have pattens. Therefore, all poker players have patterns. In online poker, these patterns are expressed numerically. You just have to look for them. These are some common types of bet-sizing tells to look out for.

*The preflop min-raise: Often times, players will do this as a cheap way to steal. Other players like to do this with big pairs to look weak and court action. Keep track of what hands your opponents have when they do this. Good players will do it with both weak and strong hands, so keep track. For example, one of my notes on a reg says, "MBet pf on BTN w weak hand - 3x, strong - 0). That means I've seen him min-bet from the button 3 times (hands he probably folded to reraises), and haven't seen him do it with a strong hand. That doesn't mean he never does, but for now I know his min-raises from late position likely means a weak hand. One time I had a reg do this 6 times, all with weak hands on different tables. I was literally reraising him all-in with every playable hand and he was folding every time. Finally he got sick of it and called me with A-9. I had Q-10 and rivered a Q. It was beautiful.

*The postflop min-raise: This usually signifies a very strong hand, but just like anything in poker, not always. Some people use it as a cheap bluff. When you see people min-raise postflop, take a note, ie "min-raised postflop with set". Now I know to fold all but my strongest hands if he min-raises me postflop until I see a reason to think otherwise.

*Overbets: Usually made by weaker players. Keep track of what players' overbets mean. Ie "overbet as a bluff".

*Continuation bets: Some players c-bet bigger when they hit and smaller when they miss. I have a note on one strong player that says, "c-bet exactly half-pot when he hit - 3x). I think the guy has read Harrington on Hold'em (where he advises c-bets be about half the pot), and tries to take advantage of others who have read it by betting exactly half the pot when he does hit his hand.

*Pot-sized bets: This can be pre- or post-flop. Keep track of what your opponents pot-bets mean. Many strong players don't bet pot, and those that do might use it for both bluffs and value. But many weaker players will use it in one way or the other. It's good for you to know which. Ie, "raised POT pf with JJ" or, "C-bet POT when he missed". (I capitalize "POT" so I know it means "pot-sized-bet" specifically).

*Repeaters: Some people like to bet "weird" numbers (that don't end in 0 or 5), like 82 or 213. You can look for tells here; someone might subconsciously bet an odd number if their hand is strong because they like odd numbers. Or they might bet 89 instead of 91 because they're trying to make the price look cheaper like they do at stores. I know a reg who likes to bet repeating numbers (244 or 177) when his hand is strong. No joke. I've seen him do it like 4 or 5 times without ever seeing a weak hand. Doesn't mean it never happens, but it's a clue I feel is somewhat reliable.


Taking notes doesn't take that much work. Anytime a hand goes to showdown, you can hit the "last hand" feature and replay it, and search for clues. You'll be amazed at how many you find. You can often make several notes in a single hand.
A good example: While I was writing this little essay, a villain min-bet my big blind from the button, from 30 to 60. I called the extra 30 with K-10s. Flop came 10-5-3. I checked, he bet POT for 135. I called. Turn came a 4, I checked and he checked. On the river, the 3 paired and I bet 200 into the pot of 405 trying to get value from a weaker hand. He folded, and typed into the chat box in all caps, "NICE RIVER FISH".
There was all sorts of great information in this hand. "MBet from button wo a big hand", "C-bet POT when he missed", "amateur player" (no real player is gonna say "NICE RIVER FISH" in that situation, nor do real players usually c-bet POT). In one hand I could tell this kid was an unsophisticated amateur with some bet-sizing tells I imagine he wasn't going to cover up well. (In a cruel twist of fate from the Poker Gods, he ended up crippling me on the bubble with A-3 against my J-J preflop ). Every hand has a lot of information for you to use if you gather it and categorize it.

If you're playing a lot of tables, this can be tough, but you should find a way to incorporate it. I also feel that taking notes will help you gain insight into your own tendencies and betting patterns, and put you in a better position to diversify your own play by thinking about what notes you would write about you from a villain's point of view.

Not all villains will have these tells. Sometimes you'll think you have a tell on a villain and be fooled. No system is flawless, and no information is complete or perfect. But the more information you gather and use to your advantage, the better player you will be, and the better your results will become.


I hope this is was helpful Questions and comments are all welcome. GL on the tables!

Great stuff, WD. Thanks for taking the time to come up with that.

Great read. Thank you WD

Good read WD. 9/10. Would have been 10/10 but you had to slide in a bad beat on us.

Hi WhirlingDervish,

Thank you very much for your answers and note taking post.
It is very helpful because it gave me confidence about my game

Right now am playing $30, $20, $10 sngs couse its highest possible stakes which start in reasonable time and volume. My roi here is around 35% (20-30tabling)


see the diff starting 6000th game. if i havent move up from micros i would never get there.

Your post about note taking says more then how to take notes.. it also says how to avoid making mistakes to give opponents information for free. Its pretty awesome

---
Would like to ask you, what is in your opinion best strategy in situation when u are often playing same opponent:
high income regular
stats 12/10
he has very good reads on you
very often reship your steals in situations where i cant call due to equity (early / mid stage)
has no respect/fear towards you..
very confident to go allin when you just cant call and hes sure you make "correct" play
only his presense on the table lowers your roi couse in most of situations you can do your game couse always have to be worried about his loose restealing and harrasment

So how to deal with this kinda pain in the ass guy? is the best way to play folding spree and waiting for monster? Or Should i call his push more loosely even though we are both making -EV game for losing our equity?

In both cases am losing Value, not sure whats more effective in longrun.

Thanks,

pLAYERsvk

Hi!
I would start calling with playable hands, even if it's not the "correct play":
-you may not be behind at all since he seems to know when you can't call, he can just bluff shove sometimes
-you may not be far behind (40/60?) most of the times
-you may run good
In any case, he will probably tighten his shoving range/resteal if he sees you are widening yours and hitting his ROI.

----
Good blog btw

You are doing great playersvk, 30% roi on STTs is awesome. I also play STT but I cant beat turbos, only can be profitable at regular speed wich sucks since I cant put volume on those.

Btw I saw you playing those new fifty50 what do you think about them?

Wow!! Thanks some of the best info I have ever read here. Really thanks for sharing.

Thanks everyone for the feedback Stoked a lot of you enjoyed it and got something out of it.


Eh, well steal a little less when he's still to act and call a little lighter. Even if a play is -EV in a vacuum, it can still be +EV overall if you show him you will defend your raises and it keeps him off your back in the future.

The other thing you should start doing is a strategic shift. Understand that he is taking advantage of situations you are creating. So take this play away from him. If you're trying to steal on him, shove allin and put him in the situation where he can't call. Put the decision on him, rather than putting him in the position where he can put the decision on you.

So yesterday was a real bad day. I slept real poorly ... had bad dreams, kept waking throughout the night, and in the morning I'd kicked all my sheets off me. It carried over into my day ... I was in a real funky, bad mood. But it was a workday, and I tried to put it aside and get my games in. I played 5 tables and dropped just under $700, and just decided to shut it down. Spent the rest of the day moping around the house. Not just a wasted day of poker, but really a wasted day of life. Sucked.

Today I woke up feeling like my normal self and hungry to play poker. Started playing at 10am (a new Dervish record early time), and the games were much softer than the times I usually play (late afternoon/evening). I was playing really fearless and aggressive, playing my good 22/16 game instead of the 15/12 nittiness I've been falling into lately. I kept that going all day, and the results reflected that, which gives me positive reinforcement. Also achieved the Iron-level Iron Man for the 3rd straight month



Starting Gun isn't the only fair-weather graph poster in this bitch

Solid day WD!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!

Hello WD, as many have stated previously, great thread !! I really look forward to reading it. I was railing you for a bit Friday night and there was one hand that stuck out to me. Not sure if you'll remember this or not but i'll try to give you the situation. You were headsup in a regular speed $100+9 and the blinds were 100/200, you were on the button with KJ and raised (min-raise I believe) and your opponent shoved (had you slightly outchipped) for a pretty sizeable amount. After your raise you had about 3600 left, you called and had his K10 dominated. Great call !!....u won the hand and won the sng shortly thereafter. Did you make the call based on previous history with this guy or did you feel your hand was just strong enough to go with? Thanks

Yeah I totally remember that hand. This was the first tourney I'd played with the guy. (He was seated two seats to my right, I believe.) He'd started out real tight, but got real aggro late a opened up a big cheap lead when we were down to 4-handed. This was the critical hand of the tourney for me. It's interesting bc the BB is a tough, aggressive reg who's made about $150K total lifetime and is on SS leaderboards this year. He runs about 23/15, and I've seen him make some loose calls on the bubble before. Might be -EV there but it definitely keeps me from bluffing him too much. This one was pretty wild though, because it's such a blatantly bad ICM play.

Full Tilt - $100+$9|100/200 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): 2,380.00
SB: 2,025.00
BB: 1,920.00
UTG: 7,175.00

SB posts SB 100.00, BB posts BB 200.00

Pre Flop: (300.00) Hero has 6 A

fold, Hero raises to 2,380.00 and is all-in, fold, BB calls 1,720.00 and is all-in

Flop: (3940.00, 2 players) Q 9 A

Turn: (3940.00, 2 players) 8

River: (3940.00, 2 players) T




I was super glad I won this flip ... would have been tilted to an obscene degree if I'd have lost it (esp considering he'd KO'd me from 2 tables back-to-back just a few minutes before this).

This is the critical HU hand that you were talking about:


Full Tilt - $100+$9|100/200 NL - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): 2,380.00
SB: 2,025.00
BB: 1,920.00
UTG: 7,175.00

SB posts SB 100.00, BB posts BB 200.00

Pre Flop: (300.00) Hero has 6 A

fold, Hero raises to 2,380.00 and is all-in, fold, BB calls 1,720.00 and is all-in

Flop: (3940.00, 2 players) Q 9 A

Turn: (3940.00, 2 players) 8

River: (3940.00, 2 players) T

Hero shows 6 A (One Pair, Aces) (PreFlop 45%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
BB shows 4 4 (One Pair, Fours) (PreFlop 55%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins 3,940.00



The Villain had started out real tight, but as he gained chips and the tourney wore on, he got real aggro and pushing in spots where I knew he didn't have a hand, but it wasn't the right time to fight back. This was; I knew he was going to try to bully me, and HU I'm not trying to be bullied. I'd rather make a stand with the first reasonable hand I get and hash things out right there. Aside from that, I knew his range was so wide here that I was doing quite well against most of it, and fortunately he had a hand that I was in great shape against.

Oopsie daisy. Copied the same hand again ... this is the HU hand:

Full Tilt - $100+$9|100/200 NL - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (SB): 4,100.00
BB: 9,400.00

Hero posts SB 100.00, BB posts BB 200.00

Pre Flop: (300.00) Hero has K J

Hero raises to 500.00, BB raises to 9,400.00 and is all-in, Hero calls 3,600.00 and is all-in

Flop: (8200.00, 2 players) J Q 7

Turn: (8200.00, 2 players) 7

River: (8200.00, 2 players) T

Hero shows K J (Two Pair, Jacks and Sevens) (PreFlop 73%, Flop 68%, Turn 82%)
BB shows T K (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens) (PreFlop 27%, Flop 32%, Turn 18%)
Hero wins 8,200.00

Hey guys - just wanted to give a quick heads up that I'll be posting a BAP for the upcoming February FTOPS in the marketplace tomorrow morning, but I wanted to give any readers of this thread first opportunity for shares if interested.

Full details will be posted in the marketplace, but the cliffs are 11 buy-ins over 7 tournaments ($100s - $300s, plus one Main Event $640 buy-in). All are no-limit events. The markup is a touch under 20%, and I'm looking to sell between 60% and 66%. I'll only be only taking FT $ - sorry for any inconvenience.

1% = $29
5% = $145
10% = $290

PM me if you're interested in reserving (as opposed to posting ITT), and we can finalize once the BAP is up tomorrow and you can review all the details.

Thanks!

prob interested in some %s, but why do u just got such a small number of events in your bap, u dont wanna multi entry it?

It's my first BAP so gonna keep it a little smaller to start. It's still a ~$3000 package, so it's a reasonable size. Going to double-enter both the $300+22 NL and $120+9 NL KO on 2/13.

pre session mood music. Go HAAM!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1uu1...eature=related

no one follows icm these days :/

fi equity punters

that said if some reg does it to me I will be sure to find a juicy spot to get them back Maybe one missclick started it all?? lol