*9 9

it’s 9 am~ why am i awake rn lol

The great thing about having both the 9 of and the 9 of , is that you can play the angle : if your set is good, make sure that the cards get mucked ASAP and move on to the next hand ; on the other hand, if your hand is no good, insist on a miss-deal!!!

In all seriousness though, I remember back 15 years ago when lol limit poker was actually the only game offered at my casino and this crazy unprecedented (until then) scenario popped up where the board showed 4 to a str8 flush on the river (missing the 6) and villain indeed flashed the 6 of at showdown while curiously deliberately keeping his other card hidden... It turned out that he had the 7 with it, AKA one of the cards showing on the board!!!

Balance for balance sake yes. but if he's calling a check-raise-all-in with J9 on a 982r flop then the hand is basically always going to showdown.

congrats on the sooted 99. You will want to be careful with irregular sleeping hours.

ty for dropping in, sir!


ty for sharing!


right, when V has value it will be similar as I expect V to stab/stack off with tp+ and maybe even weaker v the jam but a key difference is that when we x we get this V (who bets way too much) to also put in plenty of big blinds with his air that he otherwise would have folded to a bet. QJs, K10s etc whatever

we’re not trying to play optimally in a vacuum and that’s largely unreasonable anyways, but we are looking to make the correct deviations-whatever they are

will do, just happy I’m putting in the hours every day.

don’t want to break the momentum, want to ensure that I’m thriving and at the top five years from now regardless of how I run~

anything less than that is thoroughly unacceptable to me

Hero calls and scoops v J 10. didn't expect to see that hand from rec so thought i'd share

turn call spewy but honestly think V's river bluff is fairly reasonable, think lots of regs will way overfold not giving this player type credit for turning tp kinda stuff into a bluff enough.

not sure if our call is good or not tho, expect to lose more than i win on avg v this player type but getting a price

200nl

EP is unknown, $225E.

MP is a whale, no relevant notes though. $340E

OTTH

Pre-flop: EP RFI $4. MP calls. Hero 3b $22 CO with K K. EP calls. MP overcalls.

Flop ($69): 5 4 3. Checks to me.

Hero? Maybe I’m checking too much here multi-way but IP

I think checking would be really bad, especially with a whale in the hand

I also think betting anything less than half pot would be really bad, ideally 2/3 or 3/4

Sooooo many worse overpairs will pay you off

Sooooo many draws, 6's, and hearts to charge

ty for sharing your thoughts!

what’s your plan vs jam vs either V when we bet large?

fwiw when we’re multi-way and there’s a FD out there equity v continuing ranges will be lower so we would want to bet less in this spot than if the board were rainbow (not more)

400nl

SB and BB, the two main V’s in this hand are both splashy weaker players. Don’t have a good feel for what either of them show up here with these exact lines.

Everyone else, including btn is a reg. btn will be pretty wide pre here, as he should.

SB has $950. BB has $495. Btn has $1145. Hero covers.

OTTH

Pre-flop: Hero RFI $16 CO with A 4. Btn calls. SB calls. BB overcalls.

Flop ($64): J 10 7. SB donks $48. BB quickly jams $480.

What are you clicking AP in hero’s shoes?

hard to do eq calcs w/o good assumptions ofc

Well you have to hit to win, assume A high no good And I'm assuming you need a spade (non-pairing ideally) to beat both of them, though an A *might* win. So let's say you have 8-10 outs or so. Versus these kind of players I'd wait "for a better spot" in a hand when you have them in bad shape.

Why 4x pre?

Feels like a fold. AK,AQ,A9,A8 of spades feel like better calls.

ty for dropping in, sir!

completely agree




Can't say it's super sophisticated/correct and there are plenty of possible adjustments and nuances, but just a function of the stack depth and both blinds being weaker players. We want to play bigger pots in position, of course.

I'd be opening a range akin to 3x from CO in a more reggy game. Situation specific though, I give myself a lot of flexibility. Net positive overall, mistakes being made though.

given we won't be opening much wider btn/reg isn't really incentivized to do too much differently as well and the larger sizing also discourages them from calling (i understand it's more complex than this).

Most importantly, these players in the blinds are mostly inelastic to our sizing- so we want to punish them for that. We hv to draw the line somewhere though ofc


ty for the feedback!

hero folds

200nl

Main V is std reg. No relevant notes.

$215E

OTTH

Pre-flop: EP limps. Hero iso $10 MP with 6 6. Main V 3b $30 next to act. Limper calls. Hero overcalls bc of this.

Flop ($93): Q 8 3. Checks around.

Turn ($93): Q 8 3 7. EP checks. Hero bets $24. Main V calls. EP folds.

River ($141): Q 8 3 7 A. Hero jams $160E.

Thoughts?

Maybe too much spice here? I’m inclined to think that I should be taking this kind of line far more often than I’m currently doing v the avg FR reg for some reason.

I think 99-JJ region rarely clicking call here ofc and even V’s Qx that takes this line clicking fold v often in practice ime. V also doesn’t arrive to the river w v much Ax ime

Don't particularly like it given the line from villain a significant portion of his range should be Ax and your line is repping quite thin.(77/88,QQ,AQs)
Also the fact that you have 66 isn't great as you would want villain to have hands like 56/67/A6s.

Not sure how good villain is, but I think if you want to incorporate spots like this you can definitely have a better selection of spots to do it.

400nl

Several orbits later from this recent hand, a hand w the same preflop action occurs: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=2009

stack sizes have changed.

SB and BB, the two main V’s in this hand are both splashy weaker players. Don’t have a good feel for what either of them show up here with these exact lines.

Everyone else, including btn is a reg. Btn will be pretty wide here, as he should.

$1530E w main V.

OTTH

Pre-flop: Hero RFI $16 CO with A J. Btn calls. SB calls. BB overcalls.

Flop ($64): 10 7 2. Checks to me. Hero checks. Main V bets $39. SB calls. Hero overcalls.

Turn ($181): 10 7 2 2. Checks to btn, who continues $73. SB folds, hero calls.

River ($327): 10 7 2 2 8. Hero checks. V bets $115

What are you clicking AP in hero’s shoes? Call or raise question.

4 ways I prefer to just x everything otf w a reg behind us, and then do some x/raising w a healthy mix of stuff if he bets. Didn’t want to re-open the action with SB involved though here.

Thanks!

For this hand why did you elect the passive line? I think this is a 1/3 pot size bet or CR spot ez.

As played river is an auto raise. Unless button is super passive PF, meaning he's only 3betting TT+, AQ/AK Button vs CO RFI he should have virtually 0 full houses here.

His bet sizings to me seem more weighted towards top pair hands trying to get thin value. I think you would see KT/QT a lot and maybe some smaller flushes.

Given this range I'm going for a smallish raise that's in a tough spot given pot odds so probably making it like $300 total.

Oh wow, thanks Julien. I also love to play online games. Especially of the extra safe and secure variety. What a great free tip. Also, welcome to 2+2. If I send you my bank information can you help me get money onto your safe and secure site?

ty for sharing your thoughts!

400bb deep w a reg OOP and 4 ways I prefer to just check everything.

Any decent reg will be raising us quite aggressively when we bet.

Yeah, given I’m uncapped once I check i think there’s a lot of merit to x/r but for similar reasons I’m not sure if it’s worth the added complexity.

For example, if we get called in both spots and the turn is anything but a club we’re going to need to put in a check with this hand. Not to mention we can get 3b etc


This is probably better than my line of thinking but my intuition is that this sizing in this spot is heavily weighted to tp (like you said) as well as 77+, and air. I don’t think V has clubs often.

So I didn’t see much value in raising for that reason w NFD here and was thinking a good adjustment in game would be to x/r a QTs, JTs, T9s 100% and just click call w all my flushes.

Also there will be times when our read is wrong but they hero fold flushes v raise anyways or find a 3b bluff w the ATs-KTs kind of stuff. Not sure how much those considerations are a factor but I’d likely play the hand differently if main v a live reg. I try to be careful w these assumptions when I don’t hv concrete info but they do move the needle

I could be off though, that’s why I post the hands! feel free to critique. I appreciate the different perspectives.

don’t think the results mean much here

200nl line check.

Main V is a huge maniac. Main thing I’ve picked up is that V doesn’t like folding pre and loves to donk. Has donked most hands that they’re involved in OOP.

Everyone else is a reg.

$300E

OTTH

Pre-flop: V RFI $8 LJ. Hero 3b $24 btn with K K. V calls.

Flop ($51): 9 8 2. V donks $51. Hero calls.

Turn ($153): 9 8 2 A. V bets pot quickly ($153). Hero folds.

Thoughts?

I was thinking we just call off/GII on 100% of turns except this one- not sure if that’s the right line of thinking or if we should GII anyways.

400bb deep w a reg OOP and 4 ways I prefer to just check everything.

Thing is you're not really OOP. Only button w/ a very wide/weak range is behind and you have the blinds that are super wide and weak as well.
On this board texture where the best hand is typically top pair or 2nd pair and more than half the deck either puts you ahead or increases your equity and allows you to up the pressure it's really bad to give up the initiative as it limits your options on later streets and keeps the pot small in a spot where your equity is very good.

The reasons you give for opting for a passive line here I don't find to be very applicable here though they might generally make sense. Also another concern is getting raised, but: 1. that will be pretty much rarer than the alternative which is a call from one or more of the villains 2. you get more info

Any decent reg will be raising us quite aggressively when we bet.
3. your hand can withstand a raise. If they are raising wide all the better, this is a great hand to play back with.

I would just say be more granular in your assessments. The specific board, your hand, and villain's ranges matter a lot.


For example, if we get called in both spots and the turn is anything but a club we’re going to need to put in a check with this hand.
I disagree. You can barrel on a non-club K and Q for sure. Actually I don't think there would be too many cards where I would slow down on except maybe a T.

I don’t think V has clubs often.
I agree.

So I didn’t see much value in raising for that reason w NFD here and was thinking a good adjustment in game would be to x/r a QTs, JTs, T9s 100% and just click call w all my flushes.
Yeah I think this can be villain dependent but I still think you should be raising your nut flushes even if you call w/ the rest.

Rock, paper, scissors.

Calling station beats maniac.

See also: Viffer vs Phil Ruffin

tyvm for the detailed feedback + analysis! Very well said, even if we disagree about parts of the strategy wrt this hand.

I think there’s great value in being extremely nuanced and detail-oriented in ones approach spot to spot.

This is especially true in bigger/deeper games with sharper regs and more savvy recs ofc and I think it’s a strong suit of mine.

So I agree with being more granular in my assessments, even though highly simplifying things (OOP and multi-way) can be useful as well at times. Probably looking for high EV spots vs the recs a bit too much



haha funny hand~

so always fairly hesitant to post about this kind of stuff bc furthest thing from a barg and mostly just noise, but I like documenting different parts of the journey I find exciting.

probably just overthinking it. lol optics amirite

Anyways…



poor heart, thing was pumping like crazy lmao

will need to take the edge off somehow I was hallucinating near the end of the session

in the spirit of meaningless stuff booked a win, super upstuck though (sad pikachu face). Picked up AA super deep and it did not end well (GII good tho)

I’m a bit tired, talk soon!

Decent regs are raising wide in 4 way flops?

v general question here, so just going to ramble out some thoughts. could be complete bs, im v tired and not going to structure this. hope they're insightful nevertheless

You can justify plenty of different strategies here facing a bet in btn's shoes. Off the top of my head spr or stack-to-pot ratio is around 25 which is a function of btn and hero being around 400bbe to start the hand.

As stack depth increases, the value of position goes up. dramatically.

versus us it's a good exploit in general if we auto bet most/all our value + strong draws (which many regs will do given the two recs) given that our range overpairs, top pears can't withstand aggression OOP this deep on turns and rivers. sets are a small % of said range.

As for it being 4 ways- in our shoes we're benefitted by the burden of defense being shared by 3 players so it's true V can't get superrrrrrr OOL.

But it still benefits him tremendously to bloat the pot IP when deep with two recreationals in the hand. And once again, we can't really do much about it. And if one of the recreationals puts in a x/r btn can comfortably call and play turns IP w a high SPR and huge skill adv.

Even if they do have something strong, there are plenty of turns and rivers where they can be barreled off tp or even sets (like a club).

cliffs/tldr; A lot of this aggression just comes down to wanting to play big pots when superrr deep otb (v recs/whales) even if you're spewing in a vacuum everywhere. It's how a lot of the EV is manufactured when there are good regs at the table as in every other position you're a bit handcuffed when 300+bb deep and the regs know/take adv.

It's a lot harder to catch massive punts w non nutted hands deep when there are other regs who act behind you on every street who are going out of their way to do the same thing.

Also, i should clarify that "good reg" in this context would be one of the best players in any 5/10 live game/casino. And a bad reg would certainly crush 2/5. So have to keep in mind that the descriptions for the regs are relative to the other regs in the game where as for the weaker players you can take that stuff more at face value usually.