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1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey 1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey

04-09-2021 , 09:47 PM
I call both those spots but ye bet river in H1.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-09-2021 , 10:12 PM
Thanks for the chess tips

Catching up on the past some hundred posts, few quick comments:

1) I would guess 5/10 live would be much easier than you think technically. I played at the Bike recently and the average table VPIP is like 50% (this is 9 handed too), you can cbet 3/4 pot 5-ways and if someone has middle pair they will probably call. There is only the mental part where lets say you buy in 100bb and triple up and then get in a spot where you 3bet AA and face a raise on 864ssx, oftentimes players have difficulty focusing and make a mistake (either folding immediately or calling for stacks when they should just be calling once or twice) thinking of the idea of losing $3000 or 15 buyins at their previous game

2) what is this app saying you run hot or cold based on? pretty interesting. I wonder if it is skewed based on results, like I can't imagine a fish who deposited $3k and busted it would appreciate looking at the app and it saying he's running above EV

~~~~~~~~

Wanted to really focus on this line though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
1. Love for the game. Yeah yeah I know, I know, everyone says that. “Talk to me after five years kid.” I love strategy games more than anything on the planet. It’s not the same.
I was in your spot (I could probably dig up a post of mine that says exactly what I quoted). I don't know exactly, but I guess that I have spent an average of 3-4 hours a day since I was 7 years old playing strategy games (and still up to this day). 1 year into my poker career, I thought there was no way I wouldn't enjoy poker after 5 years, but sure enough, I didn't. I suspect the main reason is that despite the fact that poker, like chess, has "infinite" depth and skill ceiling for humans, at the core it is a very simplistic game- just compare how many variables there are compared to something like Magic The Gathering. 52 cards, each with only a suit and a number, compared to thousands of different mechanics/unique abilities/etc.

Of course it's not like I hate poker now, I still play every day and it's alright, I just don't have passion for it anymore. And I don't want to be too discouraging, maybe you will be different than me, you definitely have the potential to love poker for decades- but just wanted to add in my 2 cents that historically the vast majority of people who say this line end up wrong including myself (and I still play strategy games 4+ hours a day currently).

To get a bit more philosophical, oftentimes it can be good to believe in yourself even when the odds are against you, imagine 10 Olympic athletes roughly of equal skill who all believe they are going to take the trophy home even though realistically they only have a 10% chance.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-10-2021 , 12:57 AM
My passion for poker waxes and wanes but yeah I still love playing poker. Been playing over half my life, started playing in 2003 when I was 16 years old. Just don't push yourself too much when you don't feel like playing. Taking time off/vacations is not a bad thing.

I'm sticking to my guns on 5/T live being tougher than most people are claiming. 200nl on Ignition has a 3bet% of something like 3% average. Live 5/T is much higher. I'm bad at poker though.

Here's my wrong answers:

H1 fold. What value hands do we beat here? I think none. But yeah you should be betting river.

H2 fold. I'd just fold AQos preflop. Nitfold for the win.

Man I'm bad at poker.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-10-2021 , 01:49 AM
Be quiet about Ignition 1/2 FR Rick, please. Wink. I like my money.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-10-2021 , 01:54 AM
H1 i think is just bet fold on river. Fold as played.
H2 I mean, I'm not folding now. I would fold this a ton pre in the games Rick and I play but that is population tendencies.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-10-2021 , 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah
Thanks for the chess tips

Catching up on the past some hundred posts, few quick comments:
hey man, yeah for sure- it was very nice talking to you.

thanks for dropping in and for the quality post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah
1) I would guess 5/10 live would be much easier than you think technically. I played at the Bike recently and the average table VPIP is like 50% (this is 9 handed too), you can cbet 3/4 pot 5-ways and if someone has middle pair they will probably call. There is only the mental part where lets say you buy in 100bb and triple up and then get in a spot where you 3bet AA and face a raise on 864ssx, oftentimes players have difficulty focusing and make a mistake (either folding immediately or calling for stacks when they should just be calling once or twice) thinking of the idea of losing $3000 or 15 buyins at their previous game
Yeah, that all makes sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah
2) what is this app saying you run hot or cold based on? pretty interesting. I wonder if it is skewed based on results, like I can't imagine a fish who deposited $3k and busted it would appreciate looking at the app and it saying he's running above EV


As you can see in the pic above, it’s based on results. To my knowledge it doesn’t account for rake + BBJ (and therefore rakeback as well) though, which would mean the data on the career page is very much skewed. As the rake + BBJ is $1,500+ a week, if you’re playing several tables of 1/2+ full time on the app. Or $75,000+ a year. So basically most everyone who looks at that would be doing poorly. Especially pure recreational players xD.

Also, even the best players at each respective stake aren’t averaging close to +one buyin at each table they sit at pre rakeback, of course. So most of the results would fall in the normal category, regardless of what your winrate is.

That would be cool if it was based on EV. It would be nice to know how I’m running all in EV wise along the way. It’s just one factor of overall run good/bad of course, but I like that it’s more meaningful than one’s actual win rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah
I was in your spot (I could probably dig up a post of mine that says exactly what I quoted). I don't know exactly, but I guess that I have spent an average of 3-4 hours a day since I was 7 years old playing strategy games (and still up to this day). 1 year into my poker career, I thought there was no way I wouldn't enjoy poker after 5 years, but sure enough, I didn't. I suspect the main reason is that despite the fact that poker, like chess, has "infinite" depth and skill ceiling for humans, at the core it is a very simplistic game- just compare how many variables there are compared to something like Magic The Gathering. 52 cards, each with only a suit and a number, compared to thousands of different mechanics/unique abilities/etc.

Of course it's not like I hate poker now, I still play every day and it's alright, I just don't have passion for it anymore. And I don't want to be too discouraging, maybe you will be different than me, you definitely have the potential to love poker for decades- but just wanted to add in my 2 cents that historically the vast majority of people who say this line end up wrong including myself (and I still play strategy games 4+ hours a day currently).

To get a bit more philosophical, oftentimes it can be good to believe in yourself even when the odds are against you, imagine 10 Olympic athletes roughly of equal skill who all believe they are going to take the trophy home even though realistically they only have a 10% chance.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts wrt this.

something to think about.

I wrote a long ish (productive) reply to this, but I think it’s better saved for later on. I simply don’t know enough to have any clue and you obviously are way more knowledgeable than me about this.



Thanks for the replies and feedback everyone; I’ll get to them all together in my next post.

Thought I’d answer Aesah’s first as his stood out
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-10-2021 , 08:37 AM
regarding passion for the game, it's always some little things that draw me back in, recently watching twitch.tv/slayerv1fanpoker since i had a little sweat and about once per mtt he'd jam where I would have folded or he'd fold where I'd have called

seeing someone at the top of his game mirror your own style for the most part but then make slight deviations from how you would play it was incredibly insightful for me and actually got me a bit more passionate about playing it seeing it from a new perspective that solvers have brought to the table

btw i really recommend people watch his twitch, he's super engaging and fun to watch in addition to being one of og's of sngs, it's not often people who are at the highest levels will stream their play and also explain their thinking as they do it - possibly a leak giving up so much info but damn it's entertaining - i have dabbled in live streams before and never saw the point, found them terrible to watch
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-10-2021 , 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
I call both those spots but ye bet river in H1.
ty for the feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleRick
My passion for poker waxes and wanes but yeah I still love playing poker. Been playing over half my life, started playing in 2003 when I was 16 years old. Just don't push yourself too much when you don't feel like playing. Taking time off/vacations is not a bad thing.

I'm sticking to my guns on 5/T live being tougher than most people are claiming. 200nl on Ignition has a 3bet% of something like 3% average. Live 5/T is much higher. I'm bad at poker though.

Here's my wrong answers:

H1 fold. What value hands do we beat here? I think none. But yeah you should be betting river.

H2 fold. I'd just fold AQos preflop. Nitfold for the win.

Man I'm bad at poker.
Ty for sharing your thoughts.

You are fantastic at poker sir.

I can’t add much to it currently, but I think with the online vs live discussions-
most are referencing 6 max online. As full ring is soft everywhere (both live and online) from my understanding. The less people involved, the tougher the game is online imo. Assuming high % regs.

Since you brought up 3b, my 3b % is likely over 10% for example and while that by itself is just one stat, I’m currently just a bad reg (for the stake).

Quote:
Originally Posted by acescracked84
H1 i think is just bet fold on river. Fold as played.
H2 I mean, I'm not folding now. I would fold this a ton pre in the games Rick and I play but that is population tendencies.
Ty for the feedback sir.

It’s tough, because I imagine based on 6 max population tendencies on any site, I don’t think we should fold this hand pre in position vs an unknown. For several reasons.

However, vs some V’s folding definitely will end up being the best decision of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
regarding passion for the game, it's always some little things that draw me back in, recently watching twitch.tv/slayerv1fanpoker since i had a little sweat and about once per mtt he'd jam where I would have folded or he'd fold where I'd have called

seeing someone at the top of his game mirror your own style for the most part but then make slight deviations from how you would play it was incredibly insightful for me and actually got me a bit more passionate about playing it seeing it from a new perspective that solvers have brought to the table

btw i really recommend people watch his twitch, he's super engaging and fun to watch in addition to being one of og's of sngs, it's not often people who are at the highest levels will stream their play and also explain their thinking as they do it - possibly a leak giving up so much info but damn it's entertaining - i have dabbled in live streams before and never saw the point, found them terrible to watch
Interesting

Ty for sharing for your thoughts sir.

Results:
H1: I fold, no showdown
H2: I call off and V holds with AKo

Last edited by RoadtoPro; 04-10-2021 at 07:29 PM. Reason: typo
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 12:37 AM
hah well I will say one thing that already gives you an edge over me in enjoying poker long term is your dedication to chess. I mean I like chess and have played, idk tens of thousands of games but I can't imagine playing it as my main game for years, I guess I think again like I said about poker, despite its infinite depth/skillcap, it's "too simple". In the past like 1 year alone I've played MTG, Hearthstone, Age of Empires, Starcraft, Slay the Spire, and thats only a small fraction of the list of "strategy games" I've played (I picked some that I thought were more well-known)
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah
hah well I will say one thing that already gives you an edge over me in enjoying poker long term is your dedication to chess. I mean I like chess and have played, idk tens of thousands of games but I can't imagine playing it as my main game for years, I guess I think again like I said about poker, despite its infinite depth/skillcap, it's "too simple". In the past like 1 year alone I've played MTG, Hearthstone, Age of Empires, Starcraft, Slay the Spire, and thats only a small fraction of the list of "strategy games" I've played (I picked some that I thought were more well-known)



It’s refreshing that there seems to be plenty of intelligent, honest, hardworking people in gamboolin. By any career’s standards, STEM, finance etc.


So I had a question for everyone. I was wondering if I should go to this?




I graduated last year, but there was no in person graduation. I didn’t walk in hs back in 2017, so I wonder it would be like.

edit: I left out a key piece of info. I would have to fly to Texas and back, (in addition to responding to people who ask me where I work etc.... )

Last edited by RoadtoPro; 04-11-2021 at 02:01 AM. Reason: lol
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 01:49 AM
You should absolutely not go. I'm pretty certain I walked in college but I have absolutely no memory of the actual ceremony. Actually, my only memory from that graduation was some lady at a bar telling my hippie brother it looked like he had pubic hair on his face. Aside from that, definitely not worth it.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 02:18 AM
I'm a huge fan of dc but wouldn't take much life advice from him

Contact your friends, see if they're doing the walk, if they are you should go, going to be the last time you'll see most of them both individually and in groups, even if most aren't doing it, it'll being some cathaticism and you'll still get a chance to properly say goodbye to the campus and a few individuals

I always become an emotional wreck at reunions because majority of people don't make it and it just reminds me that it'll never be like that again and I start thinking about all the wrong choices I've made that I can't go back in time and replace. If you don't go but your friends do go it is something that could end up haunting you 15 years from now
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 04:20 AM
1000% go to the graduation. It's a bit of a farce but it might be the last time you ever get to see everybody from your course and I've no doubt there will be a giant piss up too. I also think your Mom would love to see you graduate, it always feels like a parenting bucket list item of sorts for most parents.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 04:31 AM
haha nice to see differing opinions. I think it's a complete waste of time

I mean if you have a group of friends that are making plans to hang out while everyone is in town, then for me, I guess I would maybe go to that but skip the ceremony itself

To me, it seems it mostly comes down to how much you value 1 in a lifetime / sentimental memories. I do not value them, so I always end up feeling like "man I would have rather just played some volleyball for those 3 hours (or whatever) instead" afterwards
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 05:13 AM
Traveling across the country to go to a college graduation when he graduated in the summer of 2020 makes no logical sense whatsoever.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah
haha nice to see differing opinions. I think it's a complete waste of time
i didn't graduate with my normal class, it was a non event meaningless event for me and as such really emphasized to my parents not to travel out for it, they listened but they feel bad about not going to this day, not even an only child either, they've been to a number of graduation ceremonies

definitely consult the moms before you decide not to if you're leaning that way, it could be a very big deal to her
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 05:39 AM
Everything rickroll is saying is right. I never graduated college. My mom graduated college in 2010 and I went and my grandma graduated college in 2012 and I went. I should probably go back to college.

If you know even one person that you sort of like that's going I would go. If anyone asks what you're doing for work tell them you are a gambling addict but you have a system, then ask to borrow money.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 06:25 AM
I feel like graduations are a lot different now, especially post covid and 19 years after I graduated HS. I think it's far less sentimental and would not go to Texas for it.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
i didn't graduate with my normal class, it was a non event meaningless event for me and as such really emphasized to my parents not to travel out for it, they listened but they feel bad about not going to this day, not even an only child either, they've been to a number of graduation ceremonies

definitely consult the moms before you decide not to if you're leaning that way, it could be a very big deal to her
RtP has more than one mom?

Nonetheless, this is the right answer, ask her-his-them if she wants to go. Graduations are just there to flatter the parents for paying tuition.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 10:31 AM
Can't imagine traveling half way across the country to celebrate an event that happened a year ago. If it were enough later that it was nostalgia, maybe, but right now it is solidly in the "old news" category while not even close to the "remember the days" category.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro


It’s refreshing that there seems to be plenty of intelligent, honest, hardworking people in gamboolin. By any career’s standards, STEM, finance etc.


So I had a question for everyone. I was wondering if I should go to this?
The smartest people I know are my former blackjack partners. They are also the kindest and most honest. The problem with the gamboolin world is there are a lot of scumbags and you have to be careful and it can be hard to meet the good ones.


I would go to your graduation. You are making good $ so its not a burden to go and it kind of closes that chapter in your life. Dont worry about teh pokerz. Every one is all over the place when they are just getting out of college and are worried about appearing successful. Just tell em u are doing some stuff with chess to pay the bills and are working on a math based project that may or may not pan out but you really dig it, its super exciting to you and unfortunately you cant talk about it due to confidentiality factors and say "you understand" and nod your head. They will nod with you. Then ask em a question and a followup. BOOOM! I have had to deflect for almost 30 years now and its super ez if u have a plan
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-11-2021 , 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
You should absolutely not go. I'm pretty certain I walked in college but I have absolutely no memory of the actual ceremony. Actually, my only memory from that graduation was some lady at a bar telling my hippie brother it looked like he had pubic hair on his face. Aside from that, definitely not worth it.
Ty for sharing your thoughts DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
I'm a huge fan of dc but wouldn't take much life advice from him

Contact your friends, see if they're doing the walk, if they are you should go, going to be the last time you'll see most of them both individually and in groups, even if most aren't doing it, it'll being some cathaticism and you'll still get a chance to properly say goodbye to the campus and a few individuals

I always become an emotional wreck at reunions because majority of people don't make it and it just reminds me that it'll never be like that again and I start thinking about all the wrong choices I've made that I can't go back in time and replace. If you don't go but your friends do go it is something that could end up haunting you 15 years from now

well said.

I feel you man; I am an emotional wreck everywhere as well... except for on the felt/over the board to a large degree somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj294
1000% go to the graduation. It's a bit of a farce but it might be the last time you ever get to see everybody from your course and I've no doubt there will be a giant piss up too. I also think your Mom would love to see you graduate, it always feels like a parenting bucket list item of sorts for most parents.
Hey man, thanks for dropping in.

Yeah, my mom would definitely like me to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah
haha nice to see differing opinions. I think it's a complete waste of time



I mean if you have a group of friends that are making plans to hang out while everyone is in town, then for me, I guess I would maybe go to that but skip the ceremony itself



To me, it seems it mostly comes down to how much you value 1 in a lifetime / sentimental memories. I do not value them, so I always end up feeling like "man I would have rather just played some volleyball for those 3 hours (or whatever) instead" afterwards
well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
i didn't graduate with my normal class, it was a non event meaningless event for me and as such really emphasized to my parents not to travel out for it, they listened but they feel bad about not going to this day, not even an only child either, they've been to a number of graduation ceremonies



definitely consult the moms before you decide not to if you're leaning that way, it could be a very big deal to her

Yeah, my normal class (c/o ‘21) hasn’t even graduated yet... which is weird lol.

I was leaning no, although now I’m not so sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acescracked84
I feel like graduations are a lot different now, especially post covid and 19 years after I graduated HS. I think it's far less sentimental and would not go to Texas for it.

well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleRick
If anyone asks what you're doing for work tell them you are a gambling addict but you have a system, then ask to borrow money.



“bUt HOw muCh DiD yoU lOse?”

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadMoneyWalking
RtP has more than one mom?



Nonetheless, this is the right answer, ask her-his-them if she wants to go. Graduations are just there to flatter the parents for paying tuition.

just one, afaik

Very happy with the direction I went for college, in retrospect.

It wasn’t quite a full ride, but I got a pretty sweet scholarship and got to go out of state.

If I had went to UCLA or the equivalent, this thread likely doesn’t exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Can't imagine traveling half way across the country to celebrate an event that happened a year ago. If it were enough later that it was nostalgia, maybe, but right now it is solidly in the "old news" category while not even close to the "remember the days" category.
Nice to see you in here, Garick

Are you a doctor yet?

well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face
The smartest people I know are my former blackjack partners. They are also the kindest and most honest. The problem with the gamboolin world is there are a lot of scumbags and you have to be careful and it can be hard to meet the good ones.



I would go to your graduation. You are making good $ so its not a burden to go and it kind of closes that chapter in your life. Dont worry about teh pokerz. Every one is all over the place when they are just getting out of college and are worried about appearing successful. Just tell em u are doing some stuff with chess to pay the bills and are working on a math based project that may or may not pan out but you really dig it, its super exciting to you and unfortunately you cant talk about it due to confidentiality factors and say "you understand" and nod your head. They will nod with you. Then ask em a question and a followup. BOOOM! I have had to deflect for almost 30 years now and its super ez if u have a plan

Nice to see you in here as well, squid

well said.

I meant more so in general, rather than % wise of course. Obviously, in the more lucrative careers it is more a dime a dozen where as in gamboolin I assume it is closer to few, and far, between.

All of that had me laughing very hard. I’ll keep it in mind.

Yeah, $ + opportunity cost wise this stuff is no big deal. One of the benefits of the freedom/flexibility of course


Large crowds make me extremelyyyy anxious, however no one (anywhere) is going to be able to help me there lol. We’ll see, but definitely appreciate all the different perspectives a lot. And my mom certainly wants to go.

That’s why I feel semi comfortable talking about life/financial decisions with you guys- thread always delivers with good (and funny) insight.

Also, my mom was happy I put 6k away like that. That way I don’t spend it/blow it too. Out of sight, out of mind.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-12-2021 , 09:56 AM
Quote:
Nice to see you in here, Garick

Are you a doctor yet?
Depends on how you look at it. I finished my defense, and a lot of other PhDs have been calling me "doctor," but it's not official until I get a certificate from the university that my dissertation has been accepted and deposited. Even then, I think the official date is the next graduation date after the certificate is recorded.

Ironically, given my comment above, I will be going to the graduation. But only because it is next month. I wouldn't come back for it a year later.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-12-2021 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Depends on how you look at it. I finished my defense, and a lot of other PhDs have been calling me "doctor," but it's not official until I get a certificate from the university that my dissertation has been accepted and deposited. Even then, I think the official date is the next graduation date after the certificate is recorded.

Ironically, given my comment above, I will be going to the graduation. But only because it is next month. I wouldn't come back for it a year later.

understood .

Congrats!


Few hands involving AQo

H1

1/2 online. 9m

V is a standard reg. Doesn’t get OOL too often, and maybe on the tighter side.

$200E.

OTTH

Pre-flop: V RFI $4 LJ. Hero 3b HJ $16 with A Q. V calls.

Flop ($35): Q 9 7.

V checks. Hero bets $16. V calls.

Turn ($67): Q 9 7 2

V checks. Hero bets $48. V calls.

River ($163): Q 9 7 2 6

V checks. What are you doing?

$125~ behind.


H2

1/2 online. 9m

V is unknown, but seems reggy. Multi-tabling with a 200bb stack everywhere and using standard sizings.

$395E.

OTTH

Pre-flop: UTG limps $2. V iso MP $10. Hero 3b BTN $24 with A Q. Folds to V, who calls.

Flop ($53): 10 6 3. V checks. Hero checks back.

Turn ($53): 10 6 3 3. V bets $35. Hero calls.

River ($123): 10 6 3 3 2.

V continues $84. Are you calling?

Let me know what you think. There’s no right/wrong answers.

thanks for reading

Last edited by RoadtoPro; 04-12-2021 at 01:13 PM. Reason: typo
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
04-12-2021 , 01:16 PM
river on hand 1 is missing, i don't think it matters as I'm happy to check back, could be Ax spades, JT, or a set, given that it's a 3! pre i think that makes his holdings more polarized - if he missed draw he's either folding for nothing or bluffing with a jam that you can't call and if he has the set or hit the draw you're just dumping money

h2 reads like tx or overpair, i'm happy folding here even if i'm wrong but this is a spot i'm snap calling vs a lot of villains but here no reads, there's not much of a draw out there on turn so if he's competent he'd view you as value heavy and not much fe on river imo which tells me he has top pair at worst
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote

      
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