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1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey 1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey

11-16-2020 , 10:04 AM
RTP-DC is giving you excellent advice, both here and in chat-

You booked a loser, it happens.

There is a reason that people gamble on poker in casinos but they don’t on chess. Think about why

I know you think I don’t like you, and I have been hard on you in the chat, but maybe now you understand better what people have been telling you about playing this game when it’s for the lunch money, not for fun.

The games for the next several days will be the worst you have ever played in, nitty, tight, nut peddling, slogs.

Get some rest, see Vegas, go eat a couple of meals with a cocktail to celebrate being in town.

Spend a day analyzing your play-you will learn much more from losing sessions than winners. Did you really run bad, or play bad?(I don’t know, asking)

Get back to work Wednesday afternoon with a fresh, well rested, brain and outlook.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
A9o is garbage in live low stakes. Position, position, position.
+1. Don’t iso weak ace or weak pairs against lumps in llsnl, it just isn’t worth it. Especially OOP. You’re much better off trying to smash flops for cheap and then punish people when you actually have the goods.
Main leaks of live players is that they massively underbluff, and they are call happy with medium-weak hands. That is 70-80% of the player class generally in my experience. Learn to not level yourself. Also, sleep is underrated as DC and Squid have said. You lose edge when you play tired and tilted.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 01:36 PM
Keep your chin up RtP, Vegas can be a very lonesome and tilting place when running bad. You got this (in due time ).
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
Good to see you hitting up The Wynn OP. Seems like you are getting off to a good start, even though some growing pains is totally expected when going from lots of online grinding to nittier unbalanced live fish fests.

If the opener really is nitty, i dont mind calling alot with 1010. Mixing though, mostly calling if villain is nitty mcnitterson but also 3 betting from time to time.

As other posters have told you before on several occasions, one of the really huge ways to destroy live games once you get a really good feel for the dynamics is that you can make ridicilous exploitative folds/flats due to people playing their ranges incredibly faceup. Or they play their ranges absurdly unbalanced every single time. Or the fact that the LLSNL playerpool are massively underbluffing in nearly every types of spots.

As you log more hours on the livescene you will get surprised how precisely you will be able to narrow down peoples ranges in many spots.I log most of my hours in different homegames where i know my playerpool like my own jeans pocket, and often i feel like they are playing with their cards faceup on the table. They always do the same things with the same hands, they never mix it up in big spots+++.
Hey man, all of this makes sense. That’s great you feel that way at the table, gl gl

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMthepokerhack
Agree with squid and DC on game selection

Are you traveling solo or with friends?

(Asked in chat, but never really answered-if you’re solo need to be way more careful, especially first time in town is the reason I’m asking)
Solo for a small chunk, otherwise with a friend/friends.

hard to get people out here for over 15 days, even if they like you

will be careful, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face
RTP - Its not a question of being nice. A lot of times these grinder types are going to try and not show any or one card. This is a game of incomplete info and you generally want as much as you can get. Vs fish I will generally speed roll and do not put them into awkward spots as they are supporting my life and I want to keep them happy. But v grinders I will follow the rules. If I call their river bet I will wait for them to show. If they only show 1 card I will just say table or muck and wait patiently. Same when I call their all in.
for sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMthepokerhack
RTP-DC is giving you excellent advice, both here and in chat-

You booked a loser, it happens.

There is a reason that people gamble on poker in casinos but they don’t on chess. Think about why

I know you think I don’t like you, and I have been hard on you in the chat, but maybe now you understand better what people have been telling you about playing this game when it’s for the lunch money, not for fun.

The games for the next several days will be the worst you have ever played in, nitty, tight, nut peddling, slogs.

Get some rest, see Vegas, go eat a couple of meals with a cocktail to celebrate being in town.

Spend a day analyzing your play-you will learn much more from losing sessions than winners. Did you really run bad, or play bad?(I don’t know, asking)

Get back to work Wednesday afternoon with a fresh, well rested, brain and outlook.
will keep this in mind. It’s hard for me to have fun at this point. Plan is to hit 75+ hours before I do ANYthing fun.

idk man. I’d like to say I played well, but are you going to believe me?

I don’t think I’m buttonclicking, but whatever. I play bad, what can I say.

A9o hand probably spewy, but I thought it was a fine spot pre. Easy to be results oriented when they have AJ instead of A 4, K 10, Q 10, A Q. Right? You tell me haha.

As I’ve said, I would rate my poker skills at about 2/10 relative to what I feel my future potential is. But I played my A game until I was stuck 4 figs in a 1/3 game.

Maybe my A game sucks. Idk what to say lol

Have never claimed to be a crusher or anything of the sort just FYI

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtraScratch8
+1. Don’t iso weak ace or weak pairs against lumps in llsnl, it just isn’t worth it. Especially OOP. You’re much better off trying to smash flops for cheap and then punish people when you actually have the goods.
Main leaks of live players is that they massively underbluff, and they are call happy with medium-weak hands. That is 70-80% of the player class generally in my experience. Learn to not level yourself. Also, sleep is underrated as DC and Squid have said. You lose edge when you play tired and tilted.
thanks for the feedback, Xtra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubnjoy000
Keep your chin up RtP, Vegas can be a very lonesome and tilting place when running bad. You got this (in due time ).
Thanks! I’ll try! Will keep in mind the people that encouraged me when I was getting whacked when I’m playing 10/20 at the B profitably this time in a few years.

———

no, I’m not talking a break lol.

60 hours this week.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 04:57 PM
Fold A9os pre especially OOP

TT valuebet river
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 05:03 PM
Just a really bad idea to set a goal of 60 hours of play in a week at your age and experience level. You need to work up to that level. Your goal should be to have fun first, then make some money. If you make it clocking hours, you're going to burn out.

The best thing I've found is that when you're losing, tighten up your game. Most of your villains have no clue as to how to play, but they know if you are winning or losing at the table. If you're losing, they're going to call you light because you're a "loser". They figure they'll just suck out if they're wrong. So punish them by having a strong hand, don't bluff. When you're winning, they fold to your bluff because even if they are ahead, you'll suck out.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
V limps LP. Unknown limps BTN. I iso SB A 9 to $20. They both call.
Red Flag

Quote:
A9o hand probably spewy, but I thought it was a fine spot pre.
Doubled
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 06:01 PM
OP, what is your fav pokerrom so far in Vegas?

Also +1 to the A9 off raise from the blinds, that is spewy for sure. Your ranges need some work and tuning i can see.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 06:08 PM
OP has avatar vibes, could be a miniature durrr in making or just riding insane waves of variance. I've only read a couple posts, I'm either way late or getting in at the right time. Obviously Venice is very correct about impossible goals and missions, but the forum needs a hero....
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro



Solo for a small chunk, otherwise with a friend/friends.

hard to get people out here for over 15 days, even if they like you

will be careful, thanks.







will keep this in mind. It’s hard for me to have fun at this point. Plan is to hit 75+ hours before I do ANYthing fun.

idk man. I’d like to say I played well, but are you going to believe me?

I don’t think I’m buttonclicking, but whatever. I play bad, what can I say.

A9o hand probably spewy, but I thought it was a fine spot pre. Easy to be results oriented when they have AJ instead of A 4, K 10, Q 10, A Q. Right? You tell me haha.

As I’ve said, I would rate my poker skills at about 2/10 relative to what I feel my future potential is. But I played my A game until I was stuck 4 figs in a 1/3 game.

Maybe my A game sucks. Idk what to say lol

Have never claimed to be a crusher or anything of the sort just FYI




———

no, I’m not talking a break lol.

60 hours this week.
I'm replying to this because I think your a good kid.

I have no skin in the game here, but for some reason I want to see you do well.

YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO EVERYONE-TAKE AT LEAST ONE DAY AND RELAX. go to the pool, look at hot chicks, run sims on your phone-whatever it is that helps you chill

A9o in the small blind in live poker is just played by producers, not professionals. You will trap yourself over and over and over. Just like what happened. That hand was terrible on every street. Your pre flop raise was too small....then, do you really want to flop an A? What flop would make you comfortable with your hand? It continues until you stack off needing to get lucky like an amateur to win, and don't.

Play in position, not much else.

I have no idea about any of the other hands you played-you haven't posted them. If you want feedback, post them.

Quality hours matter much more than Quantity.

Play in position-when you get better you can widen your range here

Playing tired will cost more money than any leak besides playing under the influence.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 08:44 PM
A,9o is ok against the right limpers.

Play as much as you can, 50+ hour weeks playing live poker aren't really that difficult given how leisurely the grind is, especially if you're enjoying it and staying on the strip. Maybe play more 1/3 than 2/5 if you're tired but you ought to be +EV regardless of your physical state.

If you really are in it for the long haul and rolled then your results at this stage in your career just don't matter at all. You're beating the games so just grind through it.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
I hope we can fade a session like the one we just had for the rest of 2020.

We played from post lunch (which was late) till the game broke (just now) and.... we were rewarded with a lot less in our wallet than when the day started.

I did not take any notes this session and crazy enough during that entire stretch there was only one “big” pot.

Could be some mistakes. Reciting from memory here and I am exhausted, v tilted, and not feeling any positive emotions.

1/3 Wynn $500 cap.

$475 effective. I would classify the Main V in this hand as spewy. Young Asian. Fairly loose passive preflop, something like 40% VPIP, straddling more then anyone else (doesn’t have to be only UTG/BTN here), betting/raising lots postflop. Few showdowns. Has it sometimes, value cuts/loses others. Ran some small bluffs but no big ones (that showed down) at this point.

V limps LP. Unknown limps BTN. I iso SB A 9 to $20. They both call.

This is among the “worst” hands I would be doing this with in this spot I imagine. It’s probably bad by a tinge (or a lot). I play bad so who knows.

This is typically a bread and butter spot for me with this hand class as, as long as I’m not getting too OOL I can usually maneuver my way postflop, or take it down pre, and my image improves. I tighten up OOP. Maybe I should tighten up more. Anyways...

($60~) Flop: A J 4. I check. This is probably bad, but we’re multi-way, this V is spewy and likes to put chips in the pot, we’re OOP, and this hand class can’t go for three streets on basically any runout.

V bets $40. I call. BTN folds.

($140) Turn: A J 4 9. I check, V bets $110. I xrai for a little over $400 effective. V has the AJo and holds.

We ran good on this one. Was v surprised V didn’t have the 44s!

We lost about 97.4% of the pots we played in today so not much to share.

Stuck a lottttt after “working” more then I slept last night! Oh yeah

———-

Goals for tomorrow: Play 8 hours+ @ Bellagio 2/5 and lose less than $500

Thanks for reading. Flame away.
Fold A9o pre. You can't really fold once you get postflop, but the mistake was preflop. The hand isn't strong enough to iso-raise out of position against 2 players.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfsaywtf
Fold A9os pre especially OOP

TT valuebet river
Thanks for the feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Just a really bad idea to set a goal of 60 hours of play in a week at your age and experience level. You need to work up to that level. Your goal should be to have fun first, then make some money. If you make it clocking hours, you're going to burn out.

The best thing I've found is that when you're losing, tighten up your game. Most of your villains have no clue as to how to play, but they know if you are winning or losing at the table. If you're losing, they're going to call you light because you're a "loser". They figure they'll just suck out if they're wrong. So punish them by having a strong hand, don't bluff. When you're winning, they fold to your bluff because even if they are ahead, you'll suck out.
Can’t say I’ll listen, but I appreciate you looking out for me.

Will keep all of that in mind.

Will tighten up, but whether or not that will reflected in the posted HHs (lol sample size) is hard to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldManDecaf
Red Flag

Doubled


Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
OP, what is your fav pokerrom so far in Vegas?

Also +1 to the A9 off raise from the blinds, that is spewy for sure. Your ranges need some work and tuning i can see.
The Wynn. Will get back to you on that one at the end of the trip! May create a rankings or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuma
OP has avatar vibes, could be a miniature durrr in making or just riding insane waves of variance. I've only read a couple posts, I'm either way late or getting in at the right time. Obviously Venice is very correct about impossible goals and missions, but the forum needs a hero....
Take it easyyyy! I appreciate the sentiment though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMthepokerhack
I'm replying to this because I think your a good kid.

I have no skin in the game here, but for some reason I want to see you do well.

YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO EVERYONE-TAKE AT LEAST ONE DAY AND RELAX. go to the pool, look at hot chicks, run sims on your phone-whatever it is that helps you chill

A9o in the small blind in live poker is just played by producers, not professionals. You will trap yourself over and over and over. Just like what happened. That hand was terrible on every street. Your pre flop raise was too small....then, do you really want to flop an A? What flop would make you comfortable with your hand? It continues until you stack off needing to get lucky like an amateur to win, and don't.

Play in position, not much else.

I have no idea about any of the other hands you played-you haven't posted them. If you want feedback, post them.

Quality hours matter much more than Quantity.

Play in position-when you get better you can widen your range here

Playing tired will cost more money than any leak besides playing under the influence.
That’s all fair. I did take the day off.... from live poker.

We 4-tabled online and had more money across tables than one tabling live.

Caught up on some life stuff, did some chess, studied poker, thought about my play across last week, watched poker etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinFriday
A,9o is ok against the right limpers.

Play as much as you can, 50+ hour weeks playing live poker aren't really that difficult given how leisurely the grind is, especially if you're enjoying it and staying on the strip. Maybe play more 1/3 than 2/5 if you're tired but you ought to be +EV regardless of your physical state.

If you really are in it for the long haul and rolled then your results at this stage in your career just don't matter at all. You're beating the games so just grind through it.
For sure. Thanks for the input man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMeRightRound
Fold A9o pre. You can't really fold once you get postflop, but the mistake was preflop. The hand isn't strong enough to iso-raise out of position against 2 players.
Yeah, probably costing myself a few BBs pre worst case- which is a lot of course. The other 150+ BBs we lose in this hand is just a function of what happened postflop.

Yes, post builds on pre but wrt EV my iso pre didn’t cost me that much. Fully agree that it’s a mistake but those are inevitable.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro

Yeah, probably costing myself a few BBs pre worst case- which is a lot of course. The other 150+ BBs we lose in this hand is just a function of what happened postflop.

Yes, post builds on pre but wrt EV my iso pre didn’t cost me that much. Fully agree that it’s a mistake but those are inevitable.
Bolded is simply not true.
Pre is spew, your iso to 4x never ever gets folds here and is only inflating a pot OOP with a garbage hand.
The other 150+ bb’s you lose in the hand is not a cooler, you are crushed the whole way. You might win some small pots on the flop when both players (who will always call 4x pre) whiff, but you will lose the 150+bb pots nearly every time. You’ll actually win less small pots than I suspect you think as well.

Not trying to drive the point home unnecessarily, but if you don’t learn from this it will only continue to happen. Hope the rest of the trip goes well.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-16-2020 , 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtraScratch8
Bolded is simply not true.
Pre is spew, your iso to 4x never ever gets folds here and is only inflating a pot OOP with a garbage hand.
The other 150+ bb’s you lose in the hand is not a cooler, you are crushed the whole way. You might win some small pots on the flop when both players (who will always call 4x pre) whiff, but you will lose the 150+bb pots nearly every time. You’ll actually win less small pots than I suspect you think as well.

Not trying to drive the point home unnecessarily, but if you don’t learn from this it will only continue to happen. Hope the rest of the trip goes well.
This.

And i think the time is right to post the famous quote from Limon regarding this matter:

"The truth is the beginning of the hand is the MOST important part…BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. Just like w/ 9 ball every shot sets up the next shot(s)."
- Limon 4/10/2009 Taken From High Stakes PL/NL
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 12:01 AM
smh.

We are playing 1/3 $500 cap in that hand instead of 2/5 $500 cap.

Raise was not to 4x.

As I mentioned, I have been winning lots of pots this way (both pre and post). I also induce light-Ish 3-bets/spazz/all kinds of weird stuff and have loads of evidence of this vs otherwise snug/solid players. Are we factoring the meta in?

There are lots of times where we get it HU vs said AJ and take it down with a double barrel on a K or Q high board despite being “crushed the whole way.”

Lots of times they’ll have garbage and we have the initiative and are deepish giving us ample opportunities to apply pressure.

I have admitted it’s a mistake as you can see several times ffs but at least read the HH properly if you’re going to critique man

———————

I am simply going to ignore people who critique me just for the sake of doing so from now on. It is v frustrating. Don’t you need to read the HH in order to do so?

Absolutely uninterested in playing low variance style in an attempt to avoid swings. But yes, because of this I will **** myself repeatedly in the process in the meantime.

However.... when I’m playing 50/100 or w/e down the road this experience and all of these tough lessons and painful experiences will be worthwhile and have me ready. We are not playing for much rn.

If I was trying to lock up an easy $35/hr.... I would work a job. Or work towards becoming a doctor before I’m 25 or basically anything else. But we love strategy games. And We are trying to ascend and be the best live reg in every room we play in.

Last edited by RoadtoPro; 11-17-2020 at 12:21 AM.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 12:07 AM
The sizing pre is 80% irrelevant.
Nvm, I’ll keep my opinions to myself.
You are saying it’s a mistake while defending it.
That’s all I’ll say, good luck.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 12:08 AM
Also curious how you didn’t get away on this specific hand, but think that double barreling Q and K high boards is somehow better.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtraScratch8
Bolded is simply not true.
Pre is spew, your iso to 4x never ever gets folds here and is only inflating a pot OOP with a garbage hand.
.

We’re going to pretend like the most likely scenario isn’t that it just folds around?
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 12:27 AM
You are right.
I was wrong.
Carry on.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 12:46 AM
The previous poster hit the nail on the head when he asked what board are you hoping to flop with A9o. There aren't many good boards for this hand whatsoever. Since so many players limp AT+, ace high boards arent great and even a lot of 9 high boards arent all that great. Raising to bet and take it down is a terrible strategy in LLSNL where players are very sticky postflop.

You should be utilizing a more value based strategy.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 12:59 AM
Carry on.

I am just a little (very) tilted at my results not being anywhere close to fully in my control.

don’t mean to come across as arrogant.

sorry

thanks for the feedback

also, half of my sessions are a reminder as to the fact that I don’t need to do this to live v comfortably or even be happy and that is also v frustrating because I am committed to this

we are a lot closer to first base than second atm
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
smh.

We are playing 1/3 $500 cap in that hand instead of 2/5 $500 cap.

Raise was not to 4x.

As I mentioned, I have been winning lots of pots this way (both pre and post). I also induce light-Ish 3-bets/spazz/all kinds of weird stuff and have loads of evidence of this vs otherwise snug/solid players. Are we factoring the meta in?

There are lots of times where we get it HU vs said AJ and take it down with a double barrel on a K or Q high board despite being “crushed the whole way.”

Lots of times they’ll have garbage and we have the initiative and are deepish giving us ample opportunities to apply pressure.

I have admitted it’s a mistake as you can see several times ffs but at least read the HH properly if you’re going to critique man

———————

I am simply going to ignore people who critique me just for the sake of doing so from now on. It is v frustrating. Don’t you need to read the HH in order to do so?

Absolutely uninterested in playing low variance style in an attempt to avoid swings. But yes, because of this I will **** myself repeatedly in the process in the meantime.

However.... when I’m playing 50/100 or w/e down the road this experience and all of these tough lessons and painful experiences will be worthwhile and have me ready. We are not playing for much rn.

If I was trying to lock up an easy $35/hr.... I would work a job. Or work towards becoming a doctor before I’m 25 or basically anything else. But we love strategy games. And We are trying to ascend and be the best live reg in every room we play in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtraScratch8
The sizing pre is 80% irrelevant. (100% irrelevant works too)
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtraScratch8

Not trying to drive the point home unnecessarily, but if you don’t learn from this it will only continue to happen. Hope the rest of the trip goes well.
You are missing the point on several fronts and the bolded is what Squid is referring to when he talks about ‘entitlement’ and ‘misapplied aggression’.

You also seem to think that I do this for the lol’s of being annoying instead of genuinely trying to save you a costly lesson that could be easily fixed with discipline.

This will happen continuously if you iso this weak pre from sb, that is all I am saying.

If you were on the button here and iso’d, it wouldn’t be nearly as problematic.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 01:16 AM
I'm on team RTP here, nit ass MF's not wanting to play postflop or put any value on picking up 3 bb's here at a decently high frequency? It of course depends on V's, and if they still have nutted hands proceed with caution post flop, but I don't find anything wrong with this iso. Given it was 1/3 sizing is appropriate too, maybe go to $25 but yeah.

not like we're looking to stack off very often, but we get to cbet a lot of boards, go to show down with ace high, pot control our pairs etc. +EV imo
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote
11-17-2020 , 01:22 AM
Hilarious to be called a nit MF instead of perhaps actually having a clue of what works in these games. You’re right though YGO, taking down this 3 bb’s here 60-70% of the time is worth losing over 150 bb when we actually flop decent.
Even brain dead live players are capable of adjusting to this kind of spew.
1.c4: Chessman begins his poker journey Quote

      
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