BB v BTN 3-bet pot 100bb effective

A 8 4 5 K





















BB 3b pre, x/c flop & turn, x river facing AI.

BB supposed to be mixing in calls with 99-QQ one club in optimal

Think regs are under-calling here by a healthy amount so btn is incentivized to b/b/jam 22, 33, 66, 65s etc pure in practice imo.

EP is a splashy rec who enjoys the game and plays extremely well deep minus the preflop spew. Lots of experience playing high stakes cash. seems to have a very good mental.

V views me as the tight pro in the game.

$1380E~

OTTH

Pre-flop: Reg $12 EP. Main V $60 +1. Hero cold 4b LP $160 w A A. Folds to around to Main V, who $412.

AA is generally a great trap hand IP, regardless of stack depth. But it gets tricky vs different types of whales where we’re incentivized to get as much money in on early streets.

If I jam, V likely will have a folding range for this amount intentionally or otherwise. This is because he likely has random K 10 stuff.

Thoughts?

Hero jams, v folds

CO v BB single raised pot 100bb effective

T 8 4 9 K.





































Brief Analysis:

CO opens pre, BB defends. BB x, CO 30p otf, BB calls. BB x, CO 90p ott, BB peels. B x, CO jams 2x+ pot otr.

Note how we mostly prefer overbet jamming here otr

I think people are folding way too much here. Seems printing/mandatory to run it with all our good bluff candidates.

Note how ATo is a significantly worse call than QTo, JTo and loses way more chips in optimal. It's quite important to block straights when V jamming 2x pot.



Thanks for reading!

Hikaru (3185) vs Ding Liren (3150) live

This may be a tough HH to follow.

Hero has $1410. Whale #2 covers. Other stacks vary

OTTH

Pre-flop: Reg $20 EP. Reg cc. Whale #1 overcalls . Reg overcalls. Hero $120 CO with A Q. Whale #2 cc btn. Blinds fold. EP calls. MP calls. Whale #1 backjams $600.

Hero?

Others involved but I wouldn't be surprised if this particular whale (#1) turned over anything (even 7 2).

Seems like an easy rejam.

reg is pretty capped just flatting unless he soul read whale would repop it

whale is whale so agree with spyu to shove and iso vs whale's AJ/KQ etc

your definition of whale is suspect though so i'm unsure, this is normally a flat and see a flop kinda hand vs an early raise from a reg for me because I'd rather go to the wall with pp/QJs type of hand than something so easily dominated vs a non bluff 4! range soit's often of the win small pot and lose big pot kinda penultimate hand the wise doyle brunson warns you about

but overcalling then later deciding to jam it up is a classic whale move so jam happily

Ty for the feedback

Ty for sharing your thoughts

still not sure what’s happening in this hand tbh

this is why I like deepstack pokers- it’s extremely complex as the game tree is infinitely larger.

Playing perfectly is far more difficult as more nuances, many of which are intangible and subjective in nature.

reg will be opening wider from EP than the average live reg opens from CO. just a function of the environment/appeasing whales. Highly skilled though

So squeeze should be printing. I’d go large but it’s pretty tricky for a variety reasons- both complex and simple imo

Vs this backjam idk as it’s generally not the greatest idea to stick in over 350bb with AQo pre but think it’s the right play yeah

The more bb we jam, the bigger a disaster it is if someone is trapping or even has a weirdly played AK that they’re not folding

Hero jams. BTN re-jams. Fold. Fold.

Runout: J 9 7 3 8.

Showdown:

Hero: A Q

Whale #1: Q J

Whale #2: Q 10

Whale #2 scoops main + side

800nl

Btn is loose/aggressive rec with lots of spice everywhere. Have seen pile in several hundred bb pre with absolutely nothing.

Straddle is massive, splashy whale. Extremely comfortable, clicking buttons everywhere. Overplays hands but not too crazy.

Hero has $1200 even. BTN has $3300~. Straddle has $3405~.

OTTH

Pre-flop: Straddle $8. Hero $30 MP with Q Q. V 3b btn $100. Straddle cold 4b $460.

What are you doing here?

Hero jams $1200. BTN calls $1200. Straddle jams. BTN calls off $3300E.

Pot: $7,805 ($3,610, $4,195)

Runout: K J 8 3 10

Showdown:

Hero: Q Q

Straddle: J J

BTN: A A

Straddle scoops main + side

thanks for reading

Hikaru (3185) vs Ding Liren (3150) Full Stream

Normally I'd just jam it back in pretty tight here with only AA/KK and AK. But given you are up against 2 whale ranges I probably go a lot wider to like JJ+ and AQ. Definitely getting QQ in here.

Yeah, not worried about BTN at all even though he had AA. I do think when he just calls the $1200 instead of putting in the 6-bet he has exactly AA, but at that point we had already put the chips in the middle.

the thing that had alarm bells going off like crazy was that while straddle is a humongous whale who is completely indifferent to the amount he has in front of him—- he doesn’t 4b really. He normally cc with JJs, AK etc.

And then with his sizing being as huge as it was it’s never just air and quite realistically just AA/KK.

Straddle and BTN relatively deep so while sizing straddle chose was massive- it’s a small ish percentage of their effective stacks.

I think what happened here was that btn 3-betting more than anyone at the table incentivized straddle to go bananas. If I 3b, he just calls.

rtp it seems like you're getting into deep stacked live, which was my niche

now i'm sure the meta has changed dramatically but this was a very profitable system for me back 15 years ago

1. recognize a true whale vs a bad reg, a bad reg is just a bad player but has enough common sense not to go to the wall with QTo, a whale is happy to limp a hand like QTo then randomly for the lols decides to call/shove all in after it's been 3!

this is a whale, it wants to feed, it wants all the krill, he doesn't care if they need to rebuy, occasionally they walk away with all the chips and they will keep chasing that dragon trying to recapture those magical nights where that happens and QTo cracks AQ


AQ is not a good deep stacked hand because your opponent is rarely getting 300bb in with a lesser hand pre. nor are they going to play a big pot post flop with just a pair, to get it in good this deep you need two pair or better and need the villain to also have two pair or better. A hand like AQ you are basically praying for a board of AQ76T and then hoping when villain shoves on the river he has A7/A6/AT/QT (which he won't often shove because it's more a bluff than a value bet at this pot size) and not KJ/89/77/55/TT (which are more likely to be shoves)


1 keep it very simple and stay true to doyle brunson's fear of penultimate hands. i'd sooner 4! QJs than AQ or even QQ because a lot of the calling range is AA/KK so i'd like more ways to outflop them since no matter what i'm behind if they call with all three of those hands but one of them has straight/two pair/flush suckout potential

2 happily fold a hand like AJ/AQ/KQ if not suited from ep and be very respectful of ep opens and fold out these hands

3 overplay marginal hands like 86s in spots where you'd normally be folding pre, even happily mixing in some 3! because this is that spot where villain flops two pair and you have that combo draw. furthermore, the one gappers are far more disguised than connectors, people much happier to play for stacks with two pair or a set on a 975 board than a 987 board

whale theory optimal

while the above plays may not be solver approved nor even necessarily good plays on their own in a vacuum, they worked marvelously because it gives you an image of a maniac

people will see you 3! heavily with hands like 86s and label you as a fish, it could even be accurate because you did just leak out 20bb on a few failed plays

but now when you have AA they'll be 4! you with their ATo because they remember you probably have 67s here or when you 3! KK and get a call and then cbet a K39r flop they continue with Q9 because they think your sc didn't connect with that board

so the spewy preflop play is to get badregs to lower their threshold to getting it in and will increasingly start committing to playing big pots with you with more marginal holdings

i've literally won multiple 500bb+ pots at fairly high stakes where something happened where i flopped a boat and the guy called 3 streets and river jam with K high simply because he was convinced i was on a missed draw because of the image

it didn't matter that not once did i play a big pot without the nuts, they kept repeatedly seeing me playing hard with rags that they forgot i sometimes also get dealt traditionally strong cards

caveat:

this only works when the rec:reg ratio is at least 1:1, with less than 50% regs the few other regs at the table are more than happy to stay out of your way - meaning when they do play back at you they have a legit holding so you have a very straightforward decision because their range is so narrow

but once there's more than 50% regs at the table, there are less moments to wait for a and fewer opportunities to iso a whale so then the regs will have the incentive to start exploiting you instead of waiting for a better spot that may never come

this is why i began going to macau less and less frequently, the more pros at the table the more traditional poker you were forced to play and over the course of several years it went from all in blind to a nitfest where most big pots were pure coolers

two editions of the game- both private

1. online/app

2. live, way higher stakes, six figure stacks are a thing etc

I participate in the online variety, still plenty of interaction and needling though


tyvm for the quality insight and suggestions!

I’ll probably circle back to this

High stakes public live that run several times a week aren’t really a thing afaik in 2021 and I think the private element adds a lot of interesting wrinkles.

Here’s a story I’d recommend reading from feels about the perils of being a young guy in this environment

Hikaru on Doug’s podcast live

UTG v SB 3-bet pot 100bb effective

Q J J 5 A































Brief Analysis

UTG opens, SB 3-bets, UTG calls. SB 30p otf, UTG calls. SB continues 30p ott, UTG raises 3x. SB x otr, UTG jams

Note how K Q and K Q are printing as calls otr in optimal but ATs is a clear fold and AQ is mixing.

In practice, people aren't raising low FDs ott often and blasting off otr but it's probably printing as the aggressor

ugh, forgot to mention that AQ is great for that specific spot vs the whales preflop but that was a dream scenario, in general when deep i prefer to flat or even fold in that spot pre for the reason that it's going to win a small pot or lose a big one most of the time

now when you have a confirmed whale who is happy to limp a marginal hand and suddenly decides to "outplay you for the pot" then AQ is a snap shove hand but these instances don't come up too often, even at tables full of whales and whales also get AA/KK/AK occasionally too

conclusion is when super deep i was happy to flat with AK/AQ in position and let the AJ bet into me for a small pot whereas I'd be more apt to 3! a 9Ts instead - i know it sounds fishy, because it is, but you need to think of hands and boards where both people get a big piece to commit but yours is bigger and that the 9Ts vs Ax not AQo vs Ax type of scenario - more so, when you have a flush/straight then there are more 2 pair and set combos they could have whereas when you have two pair with Ax then there's far fewer 2 pair combos that feel good about committing unless they have a set+ so if it's a big pot and you have 2 pair with Ax you can't feel too good about your chances because not many people are bluffing for stacks when this deep

it's tough to know if it was a dream spot as subconsciously the showdown will shift your perception of the number of chips (EV) that were manufactured.

Example: If reg trapping AA or Btn has AKo etc it shouldn't change our beliefs on if it was a dream spot and vice versa.

Nice when the Q10 gets flipped over though

I think AQ is overpowered when you are up against people people that will call 4-bets with Q6 sooted but doesn't mean we're printing and we could go down on a very deep rabbit hole of how profitable it is etc

generally speaking we want to shovel in as many chips as we can with whatever if it's reasonable (both pre/otf) when deep as even if we get into a plethora of sick and uncomfortable spots deep and multi-way for piles---- the times they punt off 500bb or whatever is huge for us.

Pot controlling mostly shoots ourselves in the foot in ways we may not realize. The EVs may be similar in a vacuum (making pot controlling easy to rationalize) but in practice we're not going to punt off our stack or large portions of it nearly as often as them.

I 1000% agree that image and meta game considerations are absolutely massive.

It's why I think "LAG">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "TAG" deepstack.

Look at what Garrett, Tom, Phil etc have in common stylistically.

I've maintained this from the beginning of the thread when people were telling me this, that, etc about me being a spewtard and how tight was right or whatever at 1/3 live or small stakes online.

It's a muscle. You have to spew over and over and over and over and keep coming back stronger each time. Can't just make the shift at highstakes in my humble opinion.

some people just don't get it though and I stopped fighting that battle a very long time ago (it seems).

agreed, when it's you isolated vs the Q6s guy and you can get them to commit enough pre to have an spr where they'll continue with most boards

but my meaning was prior to your raise, all you knew was a good reg raised in ep with an uncapped range

maybe table dynamics made it more plausible but in that spot i'm more worried about getting dominated by EP than salivating over the whales, if whales bust they'll reload and be back next hand

also, if I were EP I'm likely flatting AA/AK (see how i advocated flatting with AA in that prior hand hoping one of the whales repopped it) so I'd be a bit worried about that myself

but to be clear, I don't think there's any doubt your poker skills/knowledge >>>>>>>> my own so this isn't intended as a lesson or reprimand and i fully subscribe to the fact i'm very likely wrong and the lowest EV poster itt - just like commenting and feel i'm also one of the few here with experience playing deep vs whales even though it was during a time when the game was signifcantly easier

It won't show up in my replies, but I'm way more happy and willing to engage with people who

A) have supported me since before/the start of the thread

B) want to see me do well

C) exhibit reciprocity

It is super annoying how a lot of people criticized me early on and had I flamed out would take immense pleasure in piling on and talking about how they knew it- but are never in a rush to applaud.

It's partly why I think boomers are whack. Easy to be wise when you're never wrong lol

I've always found that quite frustrating and it drives me nuts.

I like that you give me credit.



I wouldn't disagree at all if his EP opening range was tight. But it's not for reasons you should be fully aware of and pointed out yourself quite well.

This isn't a public game. "EP" is largely irrelevant in the same way the blinds are mostly meaningless.

I pointed this out in the first reply.

everything you said here is spot on and at the very least is how EP in the AQ hand thinks.

Another thing is that I'm on a short list of people who is affected by the swings in this said game.

This guy isn't going to be folding 8 6 EP, let alone A T. He plays very well but you seem to fully understand why opening these hands in a private game are profitable, even in EP, so I won't break it down.

The whales love him and god knows how much these gentleman makes in the live game.

HJ v LJ 3-bet pot 100bb effective

T T 9 7 J





































Brief Analysis:

LJ opens, HJ 3-bets, HJ calls. LJ x/c 50p otf. LJ x/c 67p ott. LJ x otr. HJ jam 50p.

Don't think LJ clicking call with 7 6 or the equivalent or even QQs as often as they should.

Would run it pure with any A4s, A5s we arrive to the river with, in addition to a healthy amount of other stuff. Like some AQo

thanks for reading!

Hikaru on Doug's podcast full video

Main V is a loose/aggressive recreational player. Aware, but too wide everywhere.

Main V has $785~ and is the effective stack.

OTTH

Pre-flop: Main V $25 MP. Whale calls btn. Hero 3b $110 SB w K Q. Both V’s call.

Flop ($334): K 6 5. Hero c-bets $167. MP calls. BTN folds

Turn ($668): K 6 5 8. Hero jams $510.

Thoughts? Seems thin but <.75 turn SPR.