This to me belongs in a strat forum, since i personally believe it to be a BIG LEAK for most players.

How much do you toke? Do you toke a buck everytime you win and give the cards to the dealer? (even if just the blinds)

Forgive my bluntness, but players who do this i think are basically blind sheep just following each other to the slaughterhouse.

A TIP specifically is "to insure prompt service", or "something extra" that should be rewarded. When a dealer just sits in the box and slumbers thru their shift, there is nothing worth a toke there whatsoever. And if you dont want to be socially looked down upon at the table, then go ahead and give that 600 to 900 a month away that i stick in my pocket. (and im guessing that most of the monthly averages here would be significantly affected by this number)


and by the way, we do have two dealers that are lightning fast and keep the games moving even when some players insist on slowing game down by talking etc. I toke these dealers, as they have done something worthy of it.

I toke my 2 favorite dealers on every hand I win because they keep the games lively, quick, and are friendly towards the tourists. I toke most others one toke for a big pot out of courtesy. I have a list of dealers I refuse to toke, along the same lines for constantly doing things to slow down the game.

Depends. depends on the dealer, the pot, etc. If I pick up the blinds, I don't toke. medium pots are a buck. Monster pots are a little more, based on the amount i won. I don't think I've ever toked more than $5 though.

I toke the better dealers more. In a small room with lots of regs, it makes a difference, too. like when drunk, non-tipping ******* doesn't turn over both cards of the winning hand, throws both cards toward the muck and the best dealer in the room (whom I tip well) insta-mucks the face down card (dude, this guy is FAST...shoulda been at the OK Corral), giving my Q high the win...yeah, I toke

But I see a lot of people tipping 5-10 bucks a hand, that's amazing to me. I guess they hate money.

Kurt, please lock this thread. No offense ANL, but there are about 123,457,250 other threads about this and all of them devolve into people bitching about dealers being leaches and players being cheap bastards.

You make a valid point, and if it was you, me and several other regulars discussing it, we could have a good discussion on the subject. But it won't work out that way.

Ur not a dealer are ya?

Sadly, I agree. I mean, in a service-oriented business where the game speed is directly-related to the people handling the deck, we should be able to have a good conversation in a perfect world.

But this is the internet .

I don't think its a leak to toke with dealers when they ship you the pot. The preferred method is via blunts. Other ways (ie joints) are surely acceptable. My buddy just got a $300 herbal aire vaporizer which is fantastic and my current preferred method to toke.

I just never tip dealers, ever. And then if they get annoyed enough to snidely comment on this fact I say "YOU WANT A TIP! FINE! HERE'S A TIP!" And start pelting them with redbirds in their face repeatedly until security throws me out.

this is absurd IMO. THIS is where the main posters can straighten any wrong info. about dealers out, rather than avoid a subject because some idiot is going to talk bad about dealers in general. If that is the case, then we should also lock threads where players are giving pitiful advice.

Dealers are ordinary people just like anywhere else. Most of them are just pacing themselves thru their job (like most other people). Nothing fantastic, nothing terrible. Toking is a valid subject which comes right down to affecting your monthly bottom line. Woooo, taboo to talk about it? Hmmmm, Im sorry but most anyone EVER resisting these conversations work in service industry and from what ive seen, most expect that toke as if it is an entitlement 100%.

Toking affects monthly win numbers in a big way. Its a valid subject. But Kurt can do whatever he feels like here, so i just go with that flow.

is that more +EV than actually tipping on a regular basis?

sorry, i kind of find hat amusing. Reason? Do they toke you when they burn you with a rivercard?

(keep in mind im not complaining about some rivercard that outdraws me, but only making the point that toking the dealer just because they ship you the pot "only" makes no sense since they dont compensate you if you dont win the pot.)

When a restaurant puts a mandatory 15% tip on my bill, i wouldnt eat there. Reason, the friggin restaurant is getting me to pay their employees, rather than the R owner, who should be paying them. AND, they dont have to do a damn thing to earn it. In fact, this creates an atmosphere of i dont care, since they get the tip no matter what.

WHY THIS THREAD MAY BE USEFUL?

Because if toking were PROPERLY DONE, then more dealers would strive harder to deal more than 20 hands an hour if they knew their tokes depended on it. But if players just throw that money attem when they do a slow or ordinary job, then why should they ever strive to do better????

He was making a weed joke.

I think this thread is fine, personally, the board seems like it has fewer idiots than it used to and we'll probably only discuss it for a few pages anyway.

Toking WITH dealers is accepted.

I like the thread topic, myself, but venice does have a point that this topic has erupted into a flame war among some of the more *ahem* "passionate" users in the past in the B+M forum.

But this is also a valid point--the people who frequent this forum seem to appreciate the live game more, anyway.

yeah... toking =/= tipping here. not as clever as I hoped.


I do think you make a valid point though. I don't actually keep track of how much money I have given in tips, but I'm sure in the past few months it has probably been at least 1 Buy In ($200 @ 1/2). If one were to play full time, then ANL does make a valid point that you're leaking away cash by tipping EVERY hand you win.

I agree that the restaurants with mandatory tip are crazy and it kind of goes against the original reason for tipping, but I guess its just how the industry works these days. We actually had a situation come up a couple years ago here in montreal - Stopped at a bar for a couple drinks with some friends. Don't remember how much it (it must have been cheap though since it was like 1st year in college) was but I remember we paid for it and left around $5 tip for the waitress. Well we leave and as we're walking out waitress runs after us and says that we didn't tip her the minimum of 10%.... wtf. My friend gave her another 5 but like WTF tipping minimum.

It WAS clever, im just tired finishing a 12 hour play.

And yea, it is just the industry, but if getting screwed by your auto mechanic is across the board in the industry, then should we still try and clean it up? I mean, service industry has slowly but surely changed from a "do a great job get a tip" situation to a "do any job and you better give me a tip" situation. And i just dont go for that myself.

There is one dealer named Sky at Bellagio. Not only do i toke him but i give him $5 fairly routinely when he leaves the box simply because he gets out about 35 hands an hour at NL. He does a great job. He gets great tips for doing it. THATS THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK.

This.

ANL, do a search in the B&M forum to see where these end up.

The thread isn't even 15 posts long and we have this.

The real question is: Would you rather the rake be fixed at $1 more per hand than it is now or toke? Because, that's what it comes down to.

I play in CT (and will be playing this weekend) and I play exclusively at Mohegan Sun now. The reason is that Foxwoods pools tips while MS dealers keep their tips. The result is that the faster dealers tend to work at MS.

FWIW, I tend to not tip if I only win the blinds or there is a bet/fold on the flop. However, good dealers I toke on a regular basis and will toke at the end of their down. One dealer at MS started his down with saying, "I want to deal 30 hands this down," and got 22 in (because a couple players just couldn't keep up). I toked him when he left the table. That's worth extra.

As an aside, I use a $1 chip as a card protector. If I win, the chip goes with the cards. It is a nice reminder to the dealer not to mess with my cards until I push them in.

At the same time, as a pro, it is a significant amount of money to toke. Mike Caro wrote a while back that dealers find that 1/2 is often more profitable for them than a high stakes game. Philosophically, I'd rather go back to what tipping was supposed to be, something you do when there is exceptional work, but dealer can make a living wage without it.

[QUOTE=venice10;20881404]This.

ANL, do a search in the B&M forum to see where these end up.

The thread isn't even 15 posts long and we have this.



The real question is: Would you rather the rake be fixed at $1 more per hand than it is now or toke? Because, that's what it comes down to.




sorry, but wrong. The station casinos decided to move to $5 rake instead of $4 and THANK GOD the players said piss on you and left. GREAT JOB PLAYERS!! Station moved the rake back down.

What you have to understand is that WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER. We can follow like little trolls and pay the wizard whatever he wants OR we can demand good service for a fair price and fair tip directly related to the service received.

I did some math...

Lets say a dealer can average 25 hands/hr. Then each hand, someone wins and tips $1 - standard for most at 1/2, then dealer is making $25/hr. Plus there are the big pots so it might even be more - maybe averages to like $30/hr. This is well over minimum wage, so it may be reasonable for some casinos to not even pay the dealers or just pay them min wage since tips will add up to a pretty good hourly.

That sounds like pretty good rake. Here in Montreal its:
10%, $7max at 1/2
5%, $10max at 2/5

which is brutal.

They should put the same rule here as in B&M about no tipping threads.

If you think you improved your hourly but not tipping dealers, that's great, but I don't see the need to make a thread encouraging other people to tip less.

sorry man, The french are just brutal. (pardon if u are french, but its just true.) I have friends in France who tell me how teh french operate and basically they look at poker like lotto or megabuck or whatever, Just another snatch and grab gimmick.

Toking for me is a really hard spot. Today I was shipped a huge pot. I gave the guy $1, and a guy at the table made a comment about how I should tip more, so I did.

I mean, it sucks. There is social pressure to tip the dealers more than $1, but, frequently they are not dealing well, and it cuts into my profit.

But, if I'm shipped a $1000 pot, and I only give $1, other players always say something, and it sucks, because they are losing rec-players, and I'm not.

I'm not saying don't tip. I do tip. I prefer to tip $1. But all the social pressure at the table f's that plan up.

I believe thats the case in Macau where rakes are higher than in Europe or US since players generally don't tip. The only few times I've seen someone tip was when they won a big pot cause of a bad beat.

Its tough, to avoid over and under tipping there is no right answer, But if you go to a brick and mortar, there is an unwritten agreement to tip the dealers like a server at a restaurant. If toking was not part of the game then wages of dealers would be higher and rakes would be larger. Agree, dealers should earn their tips like any other person in a tipping service industy. I tip most dealers, unless I do not win a pot during their down. I tip consistently, and never over tip in a large pot, I reason this by not asking for my tokes back when I take a beating on the river.

My formula. (1-2 or 1-3 No Limit)

Pots of $1-20. No toke
Pots of $21- $200. Toke $1.
Pots of $200-$500. Toke $2-3. ($2 for slow dealers, $3 for fast and efficient ones)
Pots of over $500. $3-5 ($3 slow, $5 fne)

I toke dealers $1 Fast and efficient service at the end of their down.

If you don't agree on toking, toke at a minimum what ever that is for you, if you believe in not toking a minimum, play online only.

-Good Grief, Charlie Brown.