Would like your advice on what you would do on the turn in this hand I played a few hours ago...

Very loose visitor limps EP, followed by an Asian reg limp in MP (I see him all over town and he was playing over 50% of hands tonight. I also see him sitting in $5/10 games at times), followed by a tight reg limp in LP.

I make it $30 otb w/87o. The limpers call, call, call, which I expected.

We are all over 200BB deep.

Flop ($120) Ac7c7x. Check. Check. Check. I bet $50. Tourist calls $50. Loose Asian makes it $220. Tight reg folds. I call. Tourist calls.

Turn ($780) was offsuit 5. Tourist checks. Asian bets $600. I ship ~$1100. Tourist folds. Asian says "I'm probably beat but I call"

River was offsuit T.

Asian wins w/75o, full house.

My bet / call on flop looks pretty strong but the Asian and the tourist seemed to have been making a lot of plays on one another. On the flop, I think Asian sees me showing up with a stubborn AK, AA, and nut flush draws...he had just got done giving speech on how nobody plays anything but Aces and Kings...which makes the turn bet so mysterious.

I don't know...guess my question is: how do you play the turn? Just fold? Does he ever play a flush draw this way after the flop action? I'm pretty sure he checks flush draw on turn, so do you just tell yourself the only hand you can beat is 76 and muck when facing $600?

At the time I was pretty confident w/my hand because I thought every hand that he raises with on the flop tends to shut down on that turn card, right? Unless he's holding like K7 - J7...then it's a maybe?

Just give your roll to charity. Sheesh.

Alright, sorry.

1, please post stacks, at least yours and let us know if relevant villain has you covered.

2nd, do not raise preflop with 87o if the limpers are going to call you "as expected". You should be raising to isolate or for value...yours did neither.

3rd, 3bet the flop, enough to setup a turn shove.

4th, a villain catching 1 of his 3 outs against you is not a reason to consider folding at any point postflop in this hand.

We all had over $1300 to start the hand except the tight player, he had ~$1100 perhaps. Villan had me covered.

I was really excited to see tourist flat my $50 with a flush draw, pocket pair, or perhaps an ace, and I wanted him to come along. You're right though, if I 3-bet on the flop, things get easier, but less potential dead money?

I'm a lot more interested in villain popping the flop than I am on whether somebody else might come along with a junky flush draw....so I have my sights set on him...doesn't seem like he wants to go anywhere. If you 3 bet to $500 and he calls with an ace or flush draw, you've got a pot-sized bet left on the turn and he won't fold much of his flop range.

"Easier" was not in my equation for 3-betting at all.

Sorry bro
Che,

Villan doesn't c/r then call 3b w/any ace, but he'd stick around w/a flush draw and 7x of course.

So do you think, as I played it, villan ever bets turn with a worse hand than 87?

raising pre in your shoes with 87o is probably a mistake, even on the button. Consider the range that calls, and your postflop strategy.

Bet more for value on the flop. The donk won't fold any Ax or any draw for probably two streets, underbetting serves little to no purpose.

3b flop to 500 or just ship all in if you're going to continue. Villain is almost never pure bluffing on Axx multiway.

As played eh. River is pretty crap. Villain isn't sticking in 120bb here on a pure bluff very often.

Ok thanks for help.

If you have to ask how to play a hand when you play like a lag PF, perhaps you shouldn't be playing like a lag. I like a flat or fold on the flop. Doubt villain 4 bet jams Ax or FD on flop so a 3bet by you only folds better IMO. As played villain makes it pretty obvious on the flop that he has a 7. You beat one realistic combo of a 7 (57). Unless you think villain is capable of playing Ax or flush draw this way, I think continuing on with the hand, this deep, is spewy.

As played fold flop (call me a nit, but we are way behind villains range even if we add AK and KQs to his range to make this play. Range is 57, 67, 78, 79, T7s, J7s, Q7s, K7s, A7, AK, KQ suited, and I honestly doubt this guy is check raising KQ suited here with a FD, trying to rep a 7.

No pp's in his range?

87o..."as expected"?

Yeah, guess it sounds bad, but tourist had time bomb ticker on top of his head (200BB+)...pretty standard for me when player of his caliber is involved. For example, he calls $220 with, at best, a flush draw on paired board after one if not two of us have trips.

If that's his range isn't it a ship? Not the greatest at counting combos but...
Doesn't matter though cause AK isn't in his range.

Raise pre flop was terrible. I can understand a call in position since you can get away easy if you miss and you have fish who will call if you hit, but why bloat the pot here if you know these guys hate to fold?

I would proabably call the check / raise but fold the turn. Villain may be loose but he's not stupid. He can see the board has a pair of 7s and that both of you have called a check/raise. Your calls indicate at least one of you has a 7 and he is still betting. If he had a flush draw, I would expect him to take the free card on the turn (often a check/raise on a draw is an attempt to get 2 free cards), so the big turn bet to me is more often a 7. There's not many 7s you beat.

It's hard putting him on a hand where he needs exactly 1 card in the deck, and I already have the results so I am biased. If you post the hand without the results and ask for help on the turn decision, I think you still get a lot of "folds"

Sounds like a cooler to me.

Although, when villain check/raises and donk bet, how can you not put him on 7x? With kicker as weak as yours, hero lay-down should be considered.

7 combos of hands we beat if we exclude half of the AK's since they don't appear to be in his range PF. (12 combos of AK, 1 combo of KQcc). 8 combos of 7x that beat us, and one that we beat.

I have to say again though, that I just don't see anybody check raise bluffing here when there is a rando fish in the hand that is not folding. If he has a random Ax (AQ-A2), he's flatting your bet, if he has a flushdraw, I also see him flatting. I just don't think that 95% of villains are capable of check raising an A77cc board as a bluff/semi-bluff, or for thin value/protection with a hand like 88-JJ.

Based on pre-flop over limp, I'd really want to remove 75% of combo's of AK from his range (this can be AK sometimes, although I still think 7x more likely, hence removing combos of AK) this leaves 4 combo's of AK, 8 combo's of 7x that beat us, 1 combo of 7x that we beat.

Hence out of 13 possible hands, we are crushed by 8 of them, and on the turn, we are now crushed by 9 of them and ahead of 4. I also don't think AK comes out and bombs this turn as it's likely to be worried about our call OTF and will try to get to SD for cheap now. If villain wasn't such a limp tard, you could remove the J7s, Q7s, K7s combo's from his range, as is though...I think you're up **** creek.

Call it a cooler if you want, I just don't think you should be opening unsuited connectors even in position, when you know you aren't getting folds. It's nice to have initiative going to the flop, but then you also must understand that when you get played back at, it's time to get away. I'm really ok with the pre-flop line if all opponents check fold to cbets all day long like they do in a lot of games. But once villain check-raises flop, alarm bells should be going off like you're in the middle of a war zone.