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Would you fold pocket 10s to an All-in bet? Would you fold pocket 10s to an All-in bet?

07-27-2014 , 09:50 AM
1/2NL Cash live.
Stacks vary from 50bb to 150bb.

Hero has 10 10 in SB position.

V1 is LAG and raises to $7. V1 stack is 50bb.
Hero calls.
V2 is TAG but on tilt. He goes all in. $150.

Hero folds his 10s b/c he's OOP.

Outcome doesn't matter but if curious, V2 showed pocket 3's.

Big mistake?
07-27-2014 , 10:38 AM
LAG on tilt....call all day.

A true TAG on tilt....if he's been waiting for an hour to play a hand...then fold.

This is also assuming that V2 is in the BB...and V1 has already folded.
07-27-2014 , 10:50 AM
Tilting players do tilty things.

AQs+, AKo, 99+ with a 5% spaz factor. Looks close to me.
I'd prolly fold.
07-27-2014 , 10:57 AM
Depends on how tilted I think villain is. If villain is decent TAG, then I probably fold to his first shove. I would expect his range to more bigger pairs and over cards then not.

Once V2 shoves you should fold or shove over top. No post flop play means position doesn't matter.
07-27-2014 , 11:36 AM
Being OOP has no bearing when you're all-in. I would raise the LAG's small open with TT. As played, I fold to the shove, unless V is on super monkey tilt.
07-27-2014 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAversion
1/2NL Cash live.
Stacks vary from 50bb to 150bb.

Hero has 10 10 in SB position.

V1 is LAG and raises to $7. V1 stack is 50bb.
Hero calls.
V2 is TAG but on tilt. He goes all in. $150.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAversion
Hero folds his 10s b/c he's OOP.
Umm...seriously?
07-27-2014 , 04:21 PM
Rick, if your goal of participating in this forum is to use it to somehow justify your own logic and approach to the game, you're doing it very wrong.
07-27-2014 , 06:02 PM
Calling $150 bet would not have put me all in.

V was not on super monkey tilt, but when he had a hand, he was shoving.
So, it was super monkey TAG.

As played with limp, it looks like fold was the right play.
Thanks, Garick.
07-27-2014 , 06:17 PM
I ran PokerStove with 10s against Any B'way and any pair.
That is a reasonable range for the tilt shover.

Pocket 10s had 58% equity.
So, I guess I should have called.
07-27-2014 , 06:29 PM
You should never call. Either fold or shove. Which depends
On my assessment of both v's at the table.
07-27-2014 , 07:06 PM
Lol hero folds because he's OoP.
07-27-2014 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAversion
I ran PokerStove with 10s against Any B'way and any pair.
That is a reasonable range for the tilt shover.

Pocket 10s had 58% equity.
So, I guess I should have called.
Range is way to wide.
07-27-2014 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAversion
Calling $150 bet would not have put me all in.
LOL, seriously?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAversion
V1 is LAG and raises to $7. V1 stack is 50bb.
So V1 has $100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAversion
V2 is TAG but on tilt. He goes all in. $150.
So V2 has $150.

Do you know what does "effective" stack mean?
07-27-2014 , 07:52 PM
How can one not 3! from the SB with TT when the raise is from a short-stack LAG?
07-27-2014 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAversion
Calling $150 bet would not have put me all in.

V was not on super monkey tilt, but when he had a hand, he was shoving.
So, it was super monkey TAG.

As played with limp, it looks like fold was the right play.
Thanks, Garick.
You are the SB. V1 raised. You called. V2 shoved. That means V1 had to act before it got back to you. He presumably folded. But even if he didn't (in which case you left out super important info), he has less than V2.

That means if you call that there is no more betting. Therefore no more information to be garnered. Therefore no position disadvantage.

TBQH, I'm starting to think that you are making up these HH's to ask your overly general questions as a HH in disguise. Therefore, I will immediately lock any HH's from you that do not include positions and actual estimated (not "ranging from 50bb to 150bb") stack sizes for each relevant V and yourself.
07-28-2014 , 03:45 AM
What is the point of having all our awesome poker skills if we don't use them.

Poker Stove ranging... give your villain a range of hands...

Observation: Villain is tilting which means his range should be wider...

How does TT fair against a wide range??? Quite well actually,

I'm rarely if ever going to be scared of calling a tilting player's shove when I have TT for under 100bb...

The only players I wouldn't call would be tilting OMC's and Nits. Because when they tilt their range is still exclusively JJ+, AK and if anything weights more towards QQ+ with the more tilted they get It's so weird to see a nit take a bad beat, then pick up AA and they tilt shove, everyone folds, and then they slam the AA on the table for all to see in their righteous rage... smh...
07-28-2014 , 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
How can one not 3! from the SB with TT when the raise is from a short-stack LAG?
This. Preflop should have been a 3 bet, all day, every day. The only exception is if you knew BB is going to be shoving light, in which case you are obviously calling.
07-28-2014 , 10:11 AM
Effective stack? Is that something like the lowest stack size of the players involved in a hand ?

I don't remember if the V1 folded on the shove. Good point. This stuff is impossible to remember as soon as the hand is over. 3 days later, it's ancient history. I barely remember the V1 and V2 faces. I do think V1 folded and yes, it would have been head's up and position wouldn't have mattered b/c of no more betting. Things were way the **** too fast, and I'm not at a level where I can think that lightning fast yet.

All I knew at the time was "Do I call a shove with TT?" I didn't want to end my night on a coin flip, b/c I'm not a gambler.
07-28-2014 , 10:14 AM
DGI, it's hard to tell if this tilting guy was a nit. Now that I think about it, he wasn't playing many hands that night.
07-28-2014 , 10:16 AM
Need more info. Hand history?
07-28-2014 , 10:17 AM
I think this this hand serves as a good lesson about ranges vs. assuming specific cards.

Normally, when someone shoves, or does a huge PF bet, it's KK+. This is what I was assuming, and obviously TT loses in PokerStove against that range.

But, maybe I need to think about TT vs. B'way/PP, and in that case, there is a slight edge for TT in head's up.

It is very easy to just assume all PF strength is QQ, KK, AK, AA. At my table, it usually is, but sometimes there are exceptions, like if the guy starts doing it more than once.
07-28-2014 , 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
How can one not 3! from the SB with TT when the raise is from a short-stack LAG?
I don't know. Can you explain why this is such an obvious 3-bet? It is not intuitive to 3-bet with TT, when you are possibly against JJ+.
07-28-2014 , 10:48 AM
I dont like the risk:reward, folding.
07-28-2014 , 11:54 AM
Effective stacks with any given villain are the smaller of your two stack sizes. If vilain bets a million dollars, but you only have $50 on the table, you only have $50 at risk and he only stands to win/lose $50 too. That means that effectively you both have $50.
07-28-2014 , 12:12 PM
We dont know what's Hero's stack.

Last edited by sheled007; 07-28-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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