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Old 02-01-2020, 01:45 AM   #24851
iraisetoomuch
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
Holy cow! I played over 2,200 hours last year so I can only imagine how much I tipped. Were you a stingy tipper, generous, or in between? I usually just tip $1 or a little more in very big pots.
I tipped $1 on every hand I won where there was a raise and a call.
I tipped an extra $1 on hands that were "large". I tipped a different (sometimes additional) $1 on hands where the dealer actively encouraged a "better game". $5k is my best estimate. I didnt track it specifically.
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Old 02-01-2020, 02:01 AM   #24852
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
I tipped $1 on every hand I won where there was a raise and a call.
I tipped an extra $1 on hands that were "large". I tipped a different (sometimes additional) $1 on hands where the dealer actively encouraged a "better game". $5k is my best estimate. I didnt track it specifically.
Thanks. Sounds like I’m underestimating how much goes to tips each year.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:06 AM   #24853
LordRiverRat
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I tip at least $2 for huge pots depending on how much I like the dealer, $1 for normal sized pots and $0 for taking down the blinds, a tiny cbet flop heads up or taking down a tiny limped pot. Although if I like the dealer or especially if I've tipped $0 several tiny pots in a row, I'll tip $1.

I generally tip 15-20% for food runners (closer to 20% or more if it's a small order so they get at least $3). Very occasionally tip the floor and I try to buy chips myself (mostly so people don't see me put reload chips in my pocket and assume I'm there for blood). I generally never tip the cage or chip runners.

That's not being a good tipper. I'm definitely in the bottom 1/3 of tippers. But even that still probably takes off 1bb/hr from my win rate at least. Probably closer to 2bb/hr at 1/2.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:29 AM   #24854
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

ended up the month +$6390, played 16 sessions total over the month, all at 5/5 and 3/5. decent start to the year. could have gotten more volume in, I also played like total crap for a week straight and lost every session I sat down for, was getting over a cold and should have just stayed home. results look like:
+$35
-$362
+$2810
+$579
+$500
+$1510
+$2080
-$222
-$1100
-$1042
-$288
-$500
-$750
+$2040
+$1000
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:03 PM   #24855
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by ProRailbird View Post
ended up the month +$6390, played 16 sessions total over the month, all at 5/5 and 3/5. decent start to the year. could have gotten more volume in, I also played like total crap for a week straight and lost every session I sat down for, was getting over a cold and should have just stayed home. results look like:
+$35
-$362
+$2810
+$579
+$500
+$1510
+$2080
-$222
-$1100
-$1042
-$288
-$500
-$750
+$2040
+$1000
Nice job/congrats! How many hrs?
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:09 PM   #24856
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Nice job/congrats! How many hrs?
80
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:23 AM   #24857
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Equal chance of winning, 30 hands per hour, $1 per hand, 9 handed game, $3.33/hr in tip.

If you somehow win more hands and bigger pots, in which you do tip more, then expect to pay probably close to $4 - $5 per hour.

1000 hours = $3,000 to $5,000 easily.

Not so surprisingly, rake works the same way, and in some ways, jackpot does, too, especially depends on promotions and time of the week/day that you play.

That's why it is hard to consistently beat a low stake game, even harder when your house rakes $4 or more. It is probably somewhere around $17 to $19 hourly in rake + tip in a $4 rake game. Beating it for 10bb/hr in a 1/3 game is actually more like beating it for 16bb/hr.
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Old 02-02-2020, 07:39 PM   #24858
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Tanqueray View Post
when your house rakes $4 or more
2003 called; they want their rake back.
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Old 02-02-2020, 08:03 PM   #24859
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They still rake only 4 in AC, assuming it hasn't gone up since November, but then you have to go to horrible AC.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:26 PM   #24860
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Originally Posted by Tanqueray View Post
Equal chance of winning, 30 hands per hour, $1 per hand, 9 handed game, $3.33/hr in tip.

If you somehow win more hands and bigger pots, in which you do tip more, then expect to pay probably close to $4 - $5 per hour.

1000 hours = $3,000 to $5,000 easily.

Not so surprisingly, rake works the same way, and in some ways, jackpot does, too, especially depends on promotions and time of the week/day that you play.

That's why it is hard to consistently beat a low stake game, even harder when your house rakes $4 or more. It is probably somewhere around $17 to $19 hourly in rake + tip in a $4 rake game. Beating it for 10bb/hr in a 1/3 game is actually more like beating it for 16bb/hr.
Its hard to consistently beat a low stakes game?
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Old 02-03-2020, 12:05 AM   #24861
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Not for you sir, you are above math and all that non-sense they called conventional poker.
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Old 02-03-2020, 12:27 AM   #24862
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Its hard to consistently beat a low stakes game?
Considering that the majority of poker players dont win, yes.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:35 AM   #24863
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If the majority of poker players weren't losers, it wouldn't be easy to beat low stakes games.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:58 AM   #24864
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Considering that the majority of poker players dont win, yes.
a majority of poker players not being winners is not a result of low stakes being hard to beat. it's actually the opposite: low stakes is easy to beat because a majority of poker players don't actively try to become winners
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Old 02-03-2020, 12:08 PM   #24865
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Fair.
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Old 02-03-2020, 06:04 PM   #24866
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Too much talk about rake affecting winrates IMO.

Rake IS there. It will ALWAYS be there. Accept it. Talk about theoretical winrate without rake is nonsense.

It's like a competitive hot dog eating professional saying "My eating rate would be way higher if I didn't have to chew and swallow". "I could make it as a pro except for that"

Last edited by crsseyed; 02-03-2020 at 06:10 PM. Reason: add last sentence
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Old 02-03-2020, 06:12 PM   #24867
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

In the competitive hot dog eating competition that is life, women are the bun.
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Old 02-03-2020, 07:05 PM   #24868
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Why do you think they start dipping the hotdog in liquid and do the shake?

Considering that not all of us play in the same rake structure, it makes sense to add rake structure when sharing WR. Nothing theoretical about it.

$1 rake difference is literally 1 to 2bb in WR depending on whether you play 1/2 or 1/3.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:37 PM   #24869
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Why do you think they start dipping the hotdog in liquid and do the shake?

Considering that not all of us play in the same rake structure, it makes sense to add rake structure when sharing WR. Nothing theoretical about it.

$1 rake difference is literally 1 to 2bb in WR depending on whether you play 1/2 or 1/3.
An interesting side note: Dipping food in liquid for competitive advantage originated long ago in the south in an attempt to gain advantage and improve swallow rate. It was nicknamed "Mississippi Strudel" in dessert eating competition and soon caught on with all foods and competitors.....

Seriously, in evaluating BB win rate to compare results with other players, 1BB/hr stats difference isn't significant IMO. I wouldn't consider Player A at 7.5BB/hr a better player than Player B at 6.5BB/hr. There's just too much variance in results/next years results could easily be reversed between the 2 players. Neither players is "better", they're both good players.

In deciding "should I go pro" no one is going to change their decision either way over ~1BB winrate....

Rake differences are important in choosing what casinos to frequent, but aren't that significant in comparing players results with other players.
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Old 02-04-2020, 03:09 AM   #24870
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. . . until you figure out what your share of the rake is in bb/100.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:11 AM   #24871
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I would disagree and say that 1 bb/hr is very important. For a 7 bb/hr winner, a 1 bb/hr drop in win rate due to rake increase is a 15% cut in their expected hourly. At 1/3 this is 4-5k in a year. After expenses and depending on how this player runs it could potentially be the difference between going broke, hanging on or having a big enough bankroll to take a shot at exiting the basement stakes.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:26 AM   #24872
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Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
I would disagree and say that 1 bb/hr is very important. For a 7 bb/hr winner, a 1 bb/hr drop in win rate due to rake increase is a 15% cut in their expected hourly. At 1/3 this is 4-5k in a year. After expenses and depending on how this player runs it could potentially be the difference between going broke, hanging on or having a big enough bankroll to take a shot at exiting the basement stakes.
ok but no one playing LLSNL has a large enough sample size to tell a 6.5bb/hr winner from a 7.5bb/hr winner, so in that sense it is meaningless

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In the competitive hot dog eating competition that is life, women are the bun.
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:49 PM   #24873
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Originally Posted by crsseyed View Post
An interesting side note: Dipping food in liquid for competitive advantage originated long ago in the south in an attempt to gain advantage and improve swallow rate. It was nicknamed "Mississippi Strudel" in dessert eating competition and soon caught on with all foods and competitors.....

Seriously, in evaluating BB win rate to compare results with other players, 1BB/hr stats difference isn't significant IMO. I wouldn't consider Player A at 7.5BB/hr a better player than Player B at 6.5BB/hr. There's just too much variance in results/next years results could easily be reversed between the 2 players. Neither players is "better", they're both good players.

In deciding "should I go pro" no one is going to change their decision either way over ~1BB winrate....

Rake differences are important in choosing what casinos to frequent, but aren't that significant in comparing players results with other players.
There seems to be a notion that if you don't care, no one else should.

On a more serious note, if someone is deciding whether to go pro, 1bb difference could have a huge impact.

1bb for a pro could easily be 1200 to 1500bb a year. Depending on the stake, that could be a significant amount of money in both absolute and relative sense.

1bb would matter a lot less to a rec player for obvious reasons.
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:53 PM   #24874
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ok but no one playing LLSNL has a large enough sample size to tell a 6.5bb/hr winner from a 7.5bb/hr winner, so in that sense it is meaningless
Which makes it even more important that the evaluation should be on numbers that we can ACTUALLY estimate, such as rake and tip.

Serious pro would find other variables such as average BI, max BI, traffic in different time of day and week, and many others to be very important as well.
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:57 PM   #24875
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There seems to be a notion that if you don't care, no one else should.

On a more serious note, if someone is deciding whether to go pro, 1bb difference could have a huge impact.

1bb for a pro could easily be 1200 to 1500bb a year. Depending on the stake, that could be a significant amount of money in both absolute and relative sense.

1bb would matter a lot less to a rec player for obvious reasons.
In addition, if you don't think rake matters, you are less likely to notice when it changes.

$1 in additional rake is somewhere between $2 to $4 in hourly cost. For a pro with volume of 1300 to 1800 hours, that would be in the range of $3,000 to $7,000 a year possibly even more.

It is a significant amount of money for those who are grinding 3/5 or below. It could actually determine whether someone should relocate or reconsider his current arrangement, and therefore rake should be very important to consider, perhaps more so than anything else on a poker table.
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