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Old 01-13-2020, 06:19 PM   #24826
AlanBostick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You mean, at the table???
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:46 PM   #24827
LordRiverRat
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
You mean, at the table???
Definitely not at the table. I never watch any videos at the table I mostly just browse facebook or read stuff. And if it's ever 2+2 or poker strategy articles I try to keep my phone low Mike Postle style cause I don't want my neighbours catching that out of the corner or their eye.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:59 PM   #24828
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I mean it makes sense. Most people don't question their play much when they're winning. And doubt it a lot when they're losing.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:41 AM   #24829
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I watch videos for study during the appropriate segment of my study time and entertainment videos during my spare time.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:20 AM   #24830
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Apologies, I'm sure this has been discussed earlier itt.

I am curious how others track promotions like high hands, aces cracked, etc. I usually just add them to my stack and just enter my cash out number into the app after the session. I assume this has skewed my hourly the past couple of years and want to be a little more accurate this year. I've heard arguments that since they take a promo drop, this is ok. However, I don't really track the rake of different games so this doesn't seem relevant to me.

My second question is regarding the tracking of tips. For the people who track tips, are they doing this for each hand won or for drinks/food etc? Again, I usually just track my cash out and just consider the tips for dealers and waitresses as part of the session. Is there a reason to get specific in this area? I know I over tip at times. Specifically when I find that a dealer/waitress makes a game more enjoyable or when they are snubbed by others at the table.

Appreciate y'alls consideration and answers...
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:26 AM   #24831
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Dont track tips. Be happier.

As far as HH, Promos, etc. Include them in your hourly rate, but just mark them separate in your tracking so you can filter them out later to understand true win rate.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:53 AM   #24832
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

For "expectable" promos, I just consider it a form of rakeback and don't track it separately. For big rarely hit ones, like a BBJ, I would track it separately, as it's only theoretically expected and if I ever hit it it would really skew my results. Most of us never will hit it in order to finance the lucky few.

I consider dealer tips part of the cost of doing business and don't track. Drinks and waitress tips are optional expenses, so I don't track them as part of my BR. Instead I consider it non-poker spending.
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:15 AM   #24833
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm lazy and consider my poker sessions as a whole, so I know what I buy in with and what I cash out with is my winnings -- and that is what I track. I don't take out for tips, drinks, food, promos, bomb pots, etc. I would take out a huge BBJ or similar, but I don't expect that any time soon -- especially since I usually play PLO in rooms that have them, and PLO players aren't offered many big promos
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Old 01-31-2020, 12:08 PM   #24834
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Promotions get included in my overall results, but not in the results for that particular game. Since I am generally maxed out for my buy-in, promotional money can't be added to the table anyway.

I don't track dealer tokes; they are effectively part of the rake.

I don't buy food or tip waiters/waitresses with chips; I keep a stash of $1 bills in my pocket for tipping for coffee, etc. Payment for food and drinks comes out of my life expenses budget, not my poker bankroll.

I do track tokes to floorpeople, chiprunners, cashiers, etc. These are expenses related to playing, but they don't get included in session results. They get accounted similarly to travel expenses, training site subscriptions, books, etc.
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Old 01-31-2020, 12:18 PM   #24835
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I agree that tracking your tips would make you miserable

It's the cost of playing so looking at how much you donated through tips won't change anything about how much you pay but will cause undue emotional duress
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Old 01-31-2020, 12:45 PM   #24836
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I don't track tips, either for the dealer or the waitress. But I don't drink a lot at the table. It's a complete hassle too.

For small promos I'll just include it in my session results, along with a note (that I'll never read). The $50 splash pot or $100 hot seat stuff comes around often enough that it's just offsetting the jackpot drop.

BBJ or any other big/rare promotion gets logged separately as it's own game. So it'll show in my career or overall results, but not skew my $1/2 NLHE or $1/2 PLO or whatever I hit.
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Old 01-31-2020, 01:07 PM   #24837
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm like most others:

- any tips to the dealer are just considered part of my cash in / cash out profit or loss; I don't track them individually (sounds like a nightmare)
- any promotional wins / BBJs / etc. I track in a separate column in my Excel sheet so as not to screw up my actual winrate computation
- any food / etc. is payed out of my pocket separate from my stack and isn't included in my poker profit/loss

GcluelessstattrackingnoobG
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Old 01-31-2020, 01:28 PM   #24838
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

On a related subject -- how well do folks track their food/hotel/mileage expenses for tax purposes? Do you do per diem somehow for the food, and if so, how does that work?
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Old 01-31-2020, 01:35 PM   #24839
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hotel and mileage are obvious travel expenses. I eat whether I am at home or in Reno or Los Angeles or Las Vegas, so food expenses are not so obvious travel expenses.

In the end it is going to depend on IRS rules, at least for US professional players.
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Old 01-31-2020, 04:07 PM   #24840
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
Since I am generally maxed out for my buy-in, promotional money can't be added to the table anyway.
Is this a rule in most casinos or only in specific ones? My experience is that you can add promo money to the table regardless of your stack size/buyin cap, but I could just be wrong on that.
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Old 01-31-2020, 06:02 PM   #24841
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
It's the cost of playing so looking at how much you donated through tips won't change anything about how much you pay but will cause undue emotional duress
Why wouldn’t it change how much you pay?

It’s not the cost of playing. Tipping is entirely voluntary. If the amount you’re tipping causes you emotional distress TIP LESS. Don’t just blindly chuck the dealer $2 a hand.

I would recommend to everybody that they track tips just for a day and decide if they’re comfortable giving that much money away.
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Old 01-31-2020, 06:16 PM   #24842
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'd direct the tipping discussion to the containment thread: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1045503/ There's page after page about it.
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Old 01-31-2020, 06:25 PM   #24843
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I definitely don't track promos separately (unless it's something stupid like the 5k mega high hand in Tampa). It's not like it's bonus money you were forced to opt in and pay for it. Tips, food and gas is cost of doing business as someone pointed out.
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Old 01-31-2020, 08:58 PM   #24844
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I don't track tips, tokes, or the (occasional) $7 I pullout of my stack for a beer maybe 6-12 times a year. I'd estimate I miss about $300 a year in my stats as a result. I won't lose any sleep over this.

I try not to me too anal. Which is saying a lot for me.
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:12 AM   #24845
AlanBostick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
Hotel and mileage are obvious travel expenses. I eat whether I am at home or in Reno or Los Angeles or Las Vegas, so food expenses are not so obvious travel expenses.

In the end it is going to depend on IRS rules, at least for US professional players.
It turns out that the IRS agrees, sort of. Business travelers have the choice of (a) keeping track throughout the year of their precise meal expenses, including tips, while traveling on business and deduct 50% of the total; or (b) use the per diem allowances for Federal employees for all of your travel throughout the year.

When I travel to (say) Las Vegas for poker, it turns out that lots of my meals are comped, or at least covered by player points. This might make it seem a no-brainer to use the Federal per diem rather than expensing half of the tips and odd meal expenses. But bear in mind that the comps should be included in your taxable income.
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:14 AM   #24846
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Get a CPA to help with your end of year filing if you're on the fence or unsure about what is the "best" approach.

It's literally their job to help you pay as little taxes as legally possible.
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:58 AM   #24847
rickroll
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

A big mistake I see new players do is fudge their win rates

Yeah you lost to that one outer or the donkey cracked your AA with AJ aipf but once you begin to justify losses and calculate "what your win rate should be" rather than what it actually is you're setting yourself up for failure.

Seen a number of people do that, none of them lasted very long and are officially the type to sell their car and pawn their speakers before having it up because their excel spreadsheet tells them they are crushers.
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:07 AM   #24848
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
I don't track tips, tokes, or the (occasional) $7 I pullout of my stack for a beer maybe 6-12 times a year. I'd estimate I miss about $300 a year in my stats as a result. I won't lose any sleep over this.

I try not to me too anal. Which is saying a lot for me.
This doesn’t include dealer tips each pot I win. I probably lose a couple thousand a year this way. Anyone else know how much they lose in tips yearly?
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:14 AM   #24849
iraisetoomuch
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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This doesn’t include dealer tips each pot I win. I probably lose a couple thousand a year this way. Anyone else know how much they lose in tips yearly?
When I played full time I "lost" ~5k/year in tips.
Coincidentally I also got a great deal in that I only paid 5k to reasonably ensure game integrtitt.

7 hours a day or in my case, 30 hours a week, 40 weeks a year.
1200 hours a year, @3 hands per hour at $1.5/hand. Yeah, it adds up, but it's likely better than the alternative.
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:35 AM   #24850
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Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
When I played full time I "lost" ~5k/year in tips.
Coincidentally I also got a great deal in that I only paid 5k to reasonably ensure game integrtitt.

7 hours a day or in my case, 30 hours a week, 40 weeks a year.
1200 hours a year, @3 hands per hour at $1.5/hand. Yeah, it adds up, but it's likely better than the alternative.
Holy cow! I played over 2,200 hours last year so I can only imagine how much I tipped. Were you a stingy tipper, generous, or in between? I usually just tip $1 or a little more in very big pots.
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