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Old 12-11-2019, 12:07 PM   #24626
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I've played 607 sessions of 1/3 NL for 4791 hours, which means my average session is 7.9 hours. However, some of those sessions were non-normal quick holiday/work sessions (4.6% of my sessions have been < 5 hours), so if you threw those out my typical average session would be longer. Basically, if I put in an after work weekday session, I'll get ~6 hours, but if I put in a weekend session I'll put in ~10 to ~12 hours. I only get ~one session a week, so I maximize my time at the table.

@ Koss: A ~2 hour round trip for 3 hours of pokring? Gross!

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Old 12-11-2019, 01:04 PM   #24627
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I've played 607 sessions of 1/3 NL for 4791 hours, which means my average session is 7.9 hours. However, some of those sessions were non-normal quick holiday/work sessions (4.6% of my sessions have been < 5 hours), so if you threw those out my typical average session would be longer. Basically, if I put in an after work weekday session, I'll get ~6 hours, but if I put in a weekend session I'll put in ~10 to ~12 hours. I only get ~one session a week, so I maximize my time at the table.
But how much did you lose?

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@ Koss: A ~2 hour round trip for 3 hours of pokring? Gross!
My thoughts as well, but he seems to have his life under control and I'm 37, most my possessions are in storage and I'm currently living in an Airbnb... So maybe 2 hour commutes are the price to pay to get your life in order
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:14 PM   #24628
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I won't even bother heading toward the casino if I don't think I'll be able to get a good 4+ hour session in. It's 35-45 minutes driving + waiting for a seat if it's busy. But I could see playing shorter sessions if the logistics were easier.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:21 PM   #24629
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah makes sense. I do play longer sessions if I have to travel significantly.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:44 PM   #24630
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It takes me a bit less than 45 minutes to walk to and from my local cardroom. If it's raining or late at night, or I am feeling lazy, then I take the bus and it is more like 20-25 minutes.

I aim for six-hour sessions.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:17 PM   #24631
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

40 minutes away without traffic (which I avoid as best as I can), 1 hour+ with traffic. I try to play 6-10 hours a day, 7 days a week, depending on how my volume for the month is going. Right now I am ahead of schedule for the month volume-wise (86 hours) but my winrate sucks majorly (runbad...lol $3.50/hr.), so I'll probably keep the gas pedal on until I start upswinging again.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:28 PM   #24632
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
@ Koss: A ~2 hour round trip for 3 hours of pokring?
Its not ideal. Its probably closer to 45 minutes than an hour. I also get a free car and gas through work, so that helps a lot.

Its either that, or I dont play. Michigan just passed a bill allowing online poker yesterday. Live is more fun, but I may be tempted by the convenience and earnings potential of online.
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Old 12-11-2019, 04:19 PM   #24633
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Its not ideal. Its probably closer to 45 minutes than an hour. I also get a free car and gas through work, so that helps a lot.

Its either that, or I dont play. Michigan just passed a bill allowing online poker yesterday. Live is more fun, but I may be tempted by the convenience and earnings potential of online.
Are there none of the Charity rooms around you? They're juicy as all hell. If you're within an hour of Detroit there's a *lot* of them, not so sure about the other side of the State.

There's a really interesting dynamic when they run out of chips for re-buys and people are dunk and spewy. We used to call that last hour "magic hour" because of how insane the play could get.
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Old 12-11-2019, 04:40 PM   #24634
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I am west of Ann Arbor. The closest casino is Firekeepers. There used to be some charity rooms in Jackson that were good. Even the charity rooms are a longer hike for me.
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:01 PM   #24635
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Oh. There are Charity rooms in Ypsi that are pretty good that should be roughly equivalent distance if you're near 94 and not N/S of it. There's been talk of opening one in the Chelsea area too. Never materialized of course.

Either way, it's interesting the impact that logistics has on when and where we play, along with the overall benefit of playing at all. At one point I had run adjusted numbers for WR taking into account the average travel time to each room I played in. Even ignoring gas it was over a BB/hr.
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:20 PM   #24636
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah, if you factor in gas, time waiting for tables, and even money spent on meals (a portion of which wouldn't have been spent had we stayed at home), typical LLSNL winrates become even grosser.

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Old 12-11-2019, 07:02 PM   #24637
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

How are you valuing time? Just taking your opportunity cost of time as your wage rate is greatly overestimating the first hour or so of travel. It's not like you can actually choose to work that extra hour so the opportunity cost is the next best thing you would've done which is probably watch TV. Loading up a good podcast or two is probably only a few bucks an hour worse than that.

I think that's definitely increasing in time though.

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Old 12-11-2019, 07:55 PM   #24638
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If you're looking at poker as a job and primary source of income it makes sense to consider those extra costs. Just like you would for any other job. I've never heard anyone personally talk about gas costs for commuting, but often enough about the time and distance.

But when it comes down to comparing your actual *play* I think it should be fairly obvious that we only want to look at time spent at the table.

For most players they should be comparing LLSNL to another *hobby*. I spend a few hundred dollars a year on equipment and ~$20/hr to play hockey. Plus gas and time. A rec player that breaks even is doing a good bit better than that.
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:13 PM   #24639
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
40 minutes away without traffic (which I avoid as best as I can), 1 hour+ with traffic. I try to play 6-10 hours a day, 7 days a week
Why not move closer to where you play? If you're single I don't see any reason to not live within 20 minutes of your work unless it's something like Manhattan vs Jersey cost of living differential and I'd still pick broke in Manhattan.

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How are you valuing time? Just taking your opportunity cost of time as your wage rate is greatly overestimating the first hour or so of travel. It's not like you can actually choose to work that extra hour so the opportunity cost is the next best thing you would've done which is probably watch TV. Loading up a good podcast or two is probably only a few bucks an hour worse than that.

I think that's definitely increasing in time though.

GameconomistG
I think that cost of time is a silly exercise. There are costs of convenience, but you can't work 24 hours anyway and cost of your time is variable

If we realistically did this then we'd always be hopped up on meth and/or sleeping upon the finest mattresses and linen in the world because if we're utilizing hundreds of thousands each year in time equity to sleep then you better sleep a little less and buy world class bedding

There also wouldn't exist so much stuff such as sitcoms and internet forums if our time was always valuable

Last edited by rickroll; 12-11-2019 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:20 PM   #24640
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

when i was in detroit i was always afraid all the dealers who knew how to deal off the bottom got jobs in the charity rooms without any supervision. in the casinos they would get caught, in the charity rooms they made bank. so i was afraid to play in the charity rooms. im a little more paranoid than most people however, but if i knew how to cheat when dealing, thats where id try to get hired.
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:55 PM   #24641
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when i was in detroit i was always afraid all the dealers who knew how to deal off the bottom got jobs in the charity rooms without any supervision. in the casinos they would get caught, in the charity rooms they made bank. so i was afraid to play in the charity rooms. im a little more paranoid than most people however, but if i knew how to cheat when dealing, thats where id try to get hired.
Had a roommate who's brother was a magician so growing up he'd spend time learning card tricks.

He showed me what just an amateur like him was capable of doing right in front of my eyes while I was looking for it and I still couldn't see it happen despite knowing it was happening.

Super scary and from them on swore off playing home games if they had high stakes. It's also the first thing I think about regarding guys like Esfandiari. Not calling him a cheater, but I'd never sit down against a former clown or magician unless at a casino because they are fully capable of doing as they please if they could touch the cards.
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:52 AM   #24642
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by XtraScratch8 View Post
Any tips on getting through breakeven stretches?
I’m grinding through one the last few hundred hours and it’s getting to me.
Amazing results btw Quantum. I’m very impressed.
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Quantum and Lord - well played!

Quantum - @ Hollywood, Commerce, Bike, or Gardens?
TY both for the kind words. It's probably more variance than me though.

I did a few things to keep the sanity while breaking even/losing:

1) Note down every single hand played in a session and review before playing again. It helps cut the **** between bad luck and bad play. If I was on my A game in say the 200th hour of losing, I wouldn't have lost as much.

2) Breaks

3) Study. Paid advice is usually better than free, though I have a solid group of friends for strat shares. Most have played much longer than I have & have experienced worse than me. I mean, this is a slow ass game. 500hrs is maybe 15k hands. There's a lot of uncertainty baked into that morsel. From a personal study perspective, Flopzilla and a calculator have done wonders for me.

__

@samo, you left out Hustler
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:48 PM   #24643
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by samo View Post
Quantum and Lord - well played!

Quantum - @ Hollywood, Commerce, Bike, or Gardens?
Ty. I'm gonna shot take 2/5 again soon. I'm such a br nit.

Sent from my MAR-LX3A using Tapatalk
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:13 PM   #24644
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Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer View Post
__

@samo, you left out Hustler
Congrats on your win rate!

I find Hustler to be better even if it has fewer games compares to Bike. What has been your experience? How does Hustler compare to other places?
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:35 PM   #24645
Askesis
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Congrats on your win rate!



I find Hustler to be better even if it has fewer games compares to Bike. What has been your experience? How does Hustler compare to other places?
During my LA trip, the one session (huge sample) I played at Hustler had the worst games of any I saw in LA. They also harassed me about my bag, claiming I would have to check it in (not going to happen) until I actually showed them the cash I had inside. Both of those factors combined with the good games I found elsewhere left me with no reason to return for a second session. Just my experience.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:23 PM   #24646
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by reaper6788 View Post
How are you valuing time? Just taking your opportunity cost of time as your wage rate is greatly overestimating the first hour or so of travel. It's not like you can actually choose to work that extra hour so the opportunity cost is the next best thing you would've done which is probably watch TV. Loading up a good podcast or two is probably only a few bucks an hour worse than that.

I think that's definitely increasing in time though.

GameconomistG
This is dead on. I would just be sitting at home, probably playing video games or some crap. I moved closer to work but further from the room about a year ago. Now that my commute to work is 10 minutes i have trouble keeping up on my podcasts. There are some good poker ones I can queue up on my drive. My drive from work to home to poker to back home is the same. I just used to live dead centered between them. Now its 10 minutes home and 50 to poker.
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:08 AM   #24647
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People seem to forget that it takes time to commute to a "regular" job.
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:34 PM   #24648
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But nobody commute 2 hours to work part-time job that may or may not even actually pay you.
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:49 PM   #24649
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But nobody commute 2 hours to work part-time job that may or may not even actually pay you.
I actually had a job like that, though the commute was more like 90 minutes. B2B telemarketing selling **** tools and power equipment. It was 2011, and only the managers had computers. The rest of us used an outdated physical catalog of 500 laminated 3 ring binder inserts crammed into a binder that could only hold 300. Our leads came from physical printouts of customer's past orders. One dude who worked there for years told an auto shop that a porta power is like a long extension chord. The dudes who made the cold calls worked in another location and were mostly ex cons as our owner used them for tax breaks. All of us however, worked as independent contractors despite having to be at a place of business on a routine schedule. Although we were promised minimum wage should our commission (which was decent, especially if you highballed) not exceed it, many people were often stiffed. One time some sap got a $6 paycheck. I worked there five months. A few years later, I was notified about a successful class action settlement.

Fun fact: supposedly Vin Diesel worked there while trying to make his acting break and some of his lines in "Boiler Room" were taken from his experience in our call center.
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:52 PM   #24650
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by sabloid View Post
Congrats on your win rate!

I find Hustler to be better even if it has fewer games compares to Bike. What has been your experience? How does Hustler compare to other places?
It can be good. Honestly though, I don't book many hours there because it's gotta be like a planned thing. I refuse to show up there any time past 3pm because it takes ages to get into a game. Other places, you can kinda just stroll in knowing it shouldn't take more than ~15min average to play.
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