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Old 08-05-2019, 03:48 PM   #23976
Petrucci
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
Corn - really depends on the individual. If you are reasonably self aware it can be a high number. I generally do not have a stop loss. I quit when I can tell that it is getting to me. It does not happen often but it happens. I generally dont start getting pissy until after i lose at least 5 bi. However, I have felt myself get heated up after 3. When that happens I dont wait for my blind i rack up and call it a day.

For what its worth I have never said to myself after racking up, "gosh that was a mistake I really should have stayed"
Huge +1. For an experienced player i think its a solid strategy to not have a static stoploss of x amount of buyins, but be self aware enough to be able to quit when you can feel it is getting to you and you arent able to play a solid game anymore. Just get yourself up from the table whenever you reach that state of mind, regardless if its 1 or 5 buyins.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:29 PM   #23977
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I prefer a 'soft' stop loss myself. On the third or fourth bullet, lock your seat and stand up to take a walk. 5 mins away from the table to clear your head and assess the situation. Take a leak, grab a drink, stretch. Make sure you're still playing and feeling well.

My hard stop loss is when I'm out of cash in my pocket. No casino ATM for me.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:13 PM   #23978
AAJTo
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you are self aware you can spot tells on yourself. When I start looking at my cards before action is on me preflop I know I am getting bored and I either go home or refocus. Going outside for a walk does help quite a bit. Bringing your credit card to the casino also gives you incentive to play worse.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:57 PM   #23979
c0rnBr34d
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
Corn - really depends on the individual. If you are reasonably self aware it can be a high number. I generally do not have a stop loss. I quit when I can tell that it is getting to me. It does not happen often but it happens. I generally dont start getting pissy until after i lose at least 5 bi. However, I have felt myself get heated up after 3. When that happens I dont wait for my blind i rack up and call it a day.

For what its worth I have never said to myself after racking up, "gosh that was a mistake I really should have stayed"
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Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
Huge +1. For an experienced player i think its a solid strategy to not have a static stoploss of x amount of buyins, but be self aware enough to be able to quit when you can feel it is getting to you and you arent able to play a solid game anymore. Just get yourself up from the table whenever you reach that state of mind, regardless if its 1 or 5 buyins.
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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
I prefer a 'soft' stop loss myself. On the third or fourth bullet, lock your seat and stand up to take a walk. 5 mins away from the table to clear your head and assess the situation. Take a leak, grab a drink, stretch. Make sure you're still playing and feeling well.

My hard stop loss is when I'm out of cash in my pocket. No casino ATM for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJTo View Post
If you are self aware you can spot tells on yourself. When I start looking at my cards before action is on me preflop I know I am getting bored and I either go home or refocus. Going outside for a walk does help quite a bit. Bringing your credit card to the casino also gives you incentive to play worse.
Thanks for this. Makes sense. It's really good to have a frame of reference that even pros can be in for "at least 5 buy ins" on occasion. I tend to think that if the third buy in is no good I should pack it in but extended to 4 this time since the game seemed worth it. Since this particular session was 1/2 and I've done 3 buy ins for $600 ish at 2/5 following the same 3 buy in rule that the 4 buy ins of $300 at 1/2 was less about the money and more about the mental aspect and trend line.

Follow up question would be, how often should I expect to need more than 2 buy ins in a single session? Is there a "normal-ish" range here? How often is too often? I started tracking in 2014 and have 582 sessions logged. This was my first 4 buy in session but the stop loss is mostly artificial especially at 1/2.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:05 PM   #23980
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Originally Posted by AAJTo View Post
Bringing your credit card to the casino also gives you incentive to play worse.

There are multiple things at a casino that are reasons people play poorly yet I’ve never even heard anyone saying access to $ in a bank account as one.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:11 PM   #23981
AAJTo
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Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d View Post
Follow up question would be, how often should I expect to need more than 2 buy ins in a single session? Is there a "normal-ish" range here? How often is too often? I started tracking in 2014 and have 582 sessions logged. This was my first 4 buy in session but the stop loss is mostly artificial especially at 1/2.
Everyone tilts. Even if the game is good you could be playing bad and unless you have several mental checks on yourself Id avoid buying in even 3 tbh but everyone is different. In the last half year Ive bought in 4 times once and I can remember every single major hand in that session and I 100% know that I wasn't tilting and just getting unlucky. One of the best players at my game writes down every hand hes in past the flop. Unless you're doing this and going over every hand after the session its easy to play terrible and chalk it up to bad luck and just forget the play you made and why. You often need a clear head to go through everything afterwards.

Its not like you play 10/20 where there is one whale that comes back from the rigs 2 weeks a year and you gotta play every second that you can. There will always be good games at these stakes and IMO strategizing how to bomb through a huge amount of buyins isn't the best way to go about things.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:35 PM   #23982
c0rnBr34d
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Originally Posted by AAJTo View Post
Everyone tilts. Even if the game is good you could be playing bad and unless you have several mental checks on yourself Id avoid buying in even 3 tbh but everyone is different. In the last half year Ive bought in 4 times once and I can remember every single major hand in that session and I 100% know that I wasn't tilting and just getting unlucky. One of the best players at my game writes down every hand hes in past the flop. Unless you're doing this and going over every hand after the session its easy to play terrible and chalk it up to bad luck and just forget the play you made and why. You often need a clear head to go through everything afterwards.

Its not like you play 10/20 where there is one whale that comes back from the rigs 2 weeks a year and you gotta play every second that you can. There will always be good games at these stakes and IMO strategizing how to bomb through a huge amount of buyins isn't the best way to go about things.
So you're saying twice a year is normal-ish but only if you're really making sure you aren't tilting. I need to further normalize this though. How many sessions do you log in half a year?
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:54 PM   #23983
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So you're saying twice a year is normal-ish but only if you're really making sure you aren't tilting. I need to further normalize this though. How many sessions do you log in half a year?
It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with you. If you are going to play a high variance style where you are playing a lot of hands really fast I would make sure you can remember everything that you did in that session and why. I brought up the point about the best player in my local game writing his hands down because I can guarantee you he goes over everything he did sometime in the near future and he writes long enough that hes probably also explaining the "meta" situation around the hand and not just the specific HH. You do this so you don't lose control of yourself and start playing badly without realizing it and go back to the hand afterwards with a clear head.

Ive thought about hands the next day and believed there was nothing else I could do and then a week later go over it again and realize there was a better approach. This is why you write things down. Thinking about what your max buy in number should be is the wrong approach. You should be making reads on yourself and having certain mental checks to really tell if you are tilting or not and until you do things like this, setting a random number for how often you should rebuy is not the right way to look at things.

I go on tilt when I think I made a bad play. If someone sucks out on me to a 2 outer it has zero impact on my mental and I usually just laugh it off. Yesterday I was card dead and I play super tight pre so those days are always a challenge. I made a really terrible bluff attempt early on in the session for my entire stack and had to fight tilt for the next hour just to stop myself from bombing off the 2nd buyin. If I didn't know myself and that I am prone to mega tilt after a bad play I would have dumped off more money and left but instead I sat there fuming and eventually got unstuck. I made a really good triple barrel later on with a clear head and was rewarded soon after by getting paid off in another hand - none of which would have happened if I didn't realize how tilted I was.

Finding out what specific things makes you tilt is a much more important question than max rebuys so you can easier gauge yourself if you need to step away or not.

Last edited by AAJTo; 08-05-2019 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:00 PM   #23984
MikeStarr
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by AAJTo View Post
If you are self aware you can spot tells on yourself. When I start looking at my cards before action is on me preflop I know I am getting bored and I either go home or refocus. Going outside for a walk does help quite a bit. Bringing your credit card to the casino also gives you incentive to play worse.
Why do you feel its important to not look at your cards before action is on you? The game is slowed down a significant amount when people do that.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:07 PM   #23985
AAJTo
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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Why do you feel its important to not look at your cards before action is on you? The game is slowed down a significant amount when people do that.
I try to time it where the guy on my right is looking at his cards when I look at mine but sometimes Im a little late. I take less then 3 seconds on 95% of my actions post flop so no one is ever going to accuse me for holding up a game.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:19 PM   #23986
browni3141
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Why do you feel its important to not look at your cards before action is on you? The game is slowed down a significant amount when people do that.
The people that slow the game down aren’t doing it right. Does it take more than a second to look at K4o and muck it?
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:53 PM   #23987
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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
The people that slow the game down aren’t doing it right. Does it take more than a second to look at K4o and muck it?
If you cant look at your cards in advance without giving away info, you aren't "doing it right". Nobody is watching you to see your reaction when you look at your cards.

If everyone waits til the action is on them to look at their cards, you're going to lose at least 5 hands per hour. Probably more. The game is already slow enough. Just look at your friggin cards and be ready to go when it comes to you.
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:33 AM   #23988
StacknLikeCordWood
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
If everyone waits til the action is on them to look at their cards, you're going to lose at least 5 hands per hour. Probably more. The game is already slow enough. Just look at your friggin cards and be ready to go when it comes to you.
+1

It starts with the one "pro" at the table. Then the try hard recs notice and think they're at a disadvantage...so they start doing it. Then the fun players notice everyone else but them is doing it...and decide the game is no longer fun and go to craps.
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:51 PM   #23989
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Pipedreamer101 View Post
Hi guys! After almost a three year hiatus from poker I returned this past March & have put in nearly 550 hours in since then. I posted my graph/stats in this same thread back in 2015 when I was on the cusp of going pro but unfortunately for all the wrong reasons. The only reason that I’m posting this now, is to answer those who have asked what’s it’s like or if it’s possible to beat high rake games, To which the answer is definitely yes. These results are all at 9 handed $2/$3 with a 10% Cap up to $149 & $15 for $150+. Buyin structure is $100-$500 GL!




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Awesome results!

The only thing I would be cautious of is that overall you still have a very small sample size. It's also not impossible that you're just on an insane heater the last ~250 hours (especially considering your first ~300 hours you looked to be at about ~$15/hr, which is still very good in a high raked game).

Ggoodluck!G
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:59 PM   #23990
3xMassGainer
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

^^What app is that

And what are some apps you guys use? I’m currently just taking notes
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Old 08-06-2019, 02:03 PM   #23991
gobbledygeek
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Just put a filter on my PokerJournal for listing all my 1/3 NL sessions where I did 4+ BIs.

To be honest, I'm not sure if it tells me much. 13 wins versus 65 losses over 78 sessions, for a winrate of -$38.33/hr (-12.78 bb/hr) over ~707 hours. Big surprise, I lost money overall whenever I was on my 4th+ BI.

The real question would be how much money I made back (or kept losing) in those games, of which I would have a difficult time telling without investigating each one of the sessions individually (which I'm too lazy to do).

I'm also not sure how applicable those stats are since I've moved to my Super Nit strategy almost ~1300 hours ago (where I simply no longer book large losses, with only 2 losses those 169 sessions being over 200bbs, and only 4 over 166bbs).

GcluelessmultipleBInoobG
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Old 08-06-2019, 02:30 PM   #23992
c0rnBr34d
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Originally Posted by 3xMassGainer View Post
^^What app is that

And what are some apps you guys use? I’m currently just taking notes
I'm using two apps at the moment because the first app doesn't have an export feature and I'm too lazy to manually enter 5 years of data into the new app. Pokermate (old) and Poker Bankroll Tracker (new). I like features of both too. The Pokermate developer said a new version was coming but it's way past due. The built in reports are better in Pokermate but the graphs, export, and expanded filters in PBT along with tons of other bells and whistles are overall better IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Just put a filter on my PokerJournal for listing all my 1/3 NL sessions where I did 4+ BIs.

To be honest, I'm not sure if it tells me much. 13 wins versus 65 losses over 78 sessions, for a winrate of -$38.33/hr (-12.78 bb/hr) over ~707 hours. Big surprise, I lost money overall whenever I was on my 4th+ BI.

The real question would be how much money I made back (or kept losing) in those games, of which I would have a difficult time telling without investigating each one of the sessions individually (which I'm too lazy to do).

I'm also not sure how applicable those stats are since I've moved to my Super Nit strategy almost ~1300 hours ago (where I simply no longer book large losses, with only 2 losses those 169 sessions being over 200bbs, and only 4 over 166bbs).

GcluelessmultipleBInoobG
True, this is what I was getting at. Just getting feedback that solid winners have 5 BI sessions is encouraging though. Side note, there was a guy on the list in my local room with initials GG. Are you on vacation? LOL
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Old 08-06-2019, 02:44 PM   #23993
gobbledygeek
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Side note, there was a guy on the list in my local room with initials GG. Are you on vacation? LOL
Lol, and I always thought it was weird that random people would give a shout out to me in random threads, before I realized GG = Good Game.

GlolG
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:26 AM   #23994
Pipedreamer101
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by 3xMassGainer View Post
^^What app is that

And what are some apps you guys use? I’m currently just taking notes


RunGood


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Old 08-07-2019, 08:29 AM   #23995
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by 3xMassGainer View Post
^^What app is that

And what are some apps you guys use? I’m currently just taking notes
that app Pipedreamer is using is RunGood. I use that too for tracking everything as it happens and keep an excel spreadsheet which serves as a primary backup and has much more functionality.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:46 PM   #23996
Davinho
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

hey Im having really good results this year for very low time. Im playin partime because im doing a paid internship.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:14 PM   #23997
manolocasob13
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Bankroll management advice

I play a REALLY SOFT cash game in my local casino, and win constantly, however my poker bankroll is very short (10 buy ins). I know it's a high risk strategy but the game is so juicy I don't wanna move down.

Is my approach too wreckless or should I take the risk since the table is so soft?

Anyway... what's the textbook optimal bankroll strategy for live cash games?
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:03 PM   #23998
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Re: Bankroll management advice

Don't be a bankroll nit and just play the game and full buy into it. Don't use a high variance strategy. Play pot control, trap hands, use delayed c-bets instead of a very high c-bet frequency, and bluff at a frequency appropriate for your table. If you are a table full of calling stations then bluff at a low frequency.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:56 PM   #23999
mycorrhizae
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Re: Bankroll management advice

Just play, if it's as soft as you say then you shouldn't be at much risk of going bust, just keep your winnings in your roll.
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Old 08-08-2019, 05:37 PM   #24000
bailashtoreth
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Re: Bankroll management advice

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Just play, if it's as soft as you say then you shouldn't be at much risk of going bust, just keep your winnings in your roll.
Definitely this. If you have to withdraw your winnings fron your bankroll, you should move down because you only have downside, bankroll- wise.
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