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Old 05-02-2019, 01:49 PM   #23701
XtraScratch8
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah, I just tallied up my 53 sessions that I have logged since I started tracking and my average session is a touch over 11 hours long.
It’s not completely by choice though, I have a long drive, so when I play, I try to make sure I have a good 10+ hours to play. Pretty sure my results would be a bit better if I could do more 5-8 hour sessions.
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:58 PM   #23702
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

OK. Damnit, I already have it in the output.

6060 hours, up to Feb of this year, mixed NLHE and PLO.

1405 sessions total

0 - 1 hour: 25
1 - 2 hours: 138
2 - 3 hours: 251
3 - 4 hours: 273
4 - 5 hours: 224
5 - 6 hours: 184
6 - 7 hours: 135
7 - 8 hours: 92
8 - 9 hours: 45
9 -10 hours: 14
> 10 hours: 24

Longest session 18.6 hours (at hour 92 in 2008, for a $40 loss).
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:01 PM   #23703
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You putting in more hours lately Angrist? Lol, I thought I was beginning to catch you but you're toasting me.

GcluelesshoursnoobG
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:23 PM   #23704
ZippyThePinhead
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

45 - 50 minute drive to each of the casino's near me.

Since I started using current tracking app,3,983 hours across 471 sessions for average length of 8.46 hours be per.

Driving for a short session is a waste of my time.

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Old 05-02-2019, 02:53 PM   #23705
BennyAdeline
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I’ve been driving 25ish minutes both ways to play 90-120 minutes sessions. My life is too busy
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:20 PM   #23706
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
You putting in more hours lately Angrist? Lol, I thought I was beginning to catch you but you're toasting me.

GcluelesshoursnoobG
My overall (lifetime) average is 48 hours/month, or 576hrs/year.

April was my third lightest month ever, and the first time in 21 months I've been under 30 hours.

I blame a combination of work busyness (that week I mentioned hurt a lot) and a hypothetical problem with my local home game.
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:00 PM   #23707
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
My overall (lifetime) average is 48 hours/month, or 576hrs/year.

April was my third lightest month ever, and the first time in 21 months I've been under 30 hours.

I blame a combination of work busyness (that week I mentioned hurt a lot) and a hypothetical problem with my local home game.
You're putting in slightly more volume than me on average. I just hope I can keep up my current volume over the next few years+.

Last night I actually began worrying about the long term state of our game even more. Basically, we've had a capped-at-$500K BBJ going since before Christmas, and that's really kept our 5 tables packed a decent amount of the time (and even made it difficult to get on at certain days / times). A couple of weeks ago it was hit, but the backup reached the capped-at-$500K within a couple of days so business as usual. But the crowds (which are completely reg infested) have waned. Played all day Saturday where I can't recall exactly if they got the 5th table going (but if they did it took them a long time to do so). Last night it took a long time to get the 4th table going and they didn't even get a 5th table going. My guess between the regs going broke chasing the BBJ and the game becoming tougher overall that it might slow down again. The tables last night certainly had their spots, and the regular action players, but they also had a lotta solid (or at the very least non-horrendous) grinders too. It's made me realize how tenuous the state of the game may really be, and just currently briefly disguised by BBJ hysteria. Most of my 2015 was spent playing at the only table running in the room. There's a chance it still may return to that, in spite of fewer rooms running.

Basically, I'm trying to have a better appreciation for what I currently have, because it may not always be here.

GbutI'vealwaysbeena"skyisfalling"kindaguyG
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:27 PM   #23708
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Probably had a drop in volume from the BBJ chasers thinking "it just hit, it's not going to hit again for a while now" and taking a break.

I think you're consistently over estimating how bad your game/market is. And underestimating how much people have adapted to you.

Action moves around from room to room, and ebbs and flows throughout the year. This is a time where (at least in MI) the rooms thin out a little bit because it's finally nice outside. It picks back up in a month. It thins out right after Christmas too. The FL games have a big swing "in-season" too.
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:52 PM   #23709
DumbosTrunk
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

In my case, I can’t imagine driving 40 minutes both ways to the casino and back to play only a 2-hour session. I average around 5-6 hours now; end of April ended up playing more like 7-9 to get my hours up at the end of the month. Gotta put in that volume! 179 hours in April, 163 in March, 151 in February. And yes I made more the more I played. Interestingly, November was my worst month ever and I played over 210 hours.

Last edited by DumbosTrunk; 05-02-2019 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:29 PM   #23710
branch0095
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
In my case, I can’t imagine driving 40 minutes both ways to the casino and back to play only a 2-hour session. I average around 5-6 hours now; end of April ended up playing more like 7-9 to get my hours up at the end of the month. Gotta put in that volume! 179 hours in April, 163 in March, 151 in February. And yes I made more the more I played. Interestingly, November was my worst month ever and I played over 210 hours.
Yeah, that's way too far too drive to play short sessions consistently. I literally live 5min away from my local casino, so i can play for a few hours and go home for lunch or whatever without it taking much time. It works out well for me , as I realize my play often deteriorates after 4-5hrs. So just being able to get away for a couple hours and take a break helps me considerably if I plan on playing a 7-8hr day.
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:45 PM   #23711
typesick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You guys sure put impressive amounts of volume at the tables, especially considering your drives.
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:43 PM   #23712
XXX555666
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

https://imgur.com/a/4au3GEG

Hi all!

I have finally gotten to over 1000 hours of live play!

The results are in the link let me know what you guys think please and feel free to comment anything and on my graph!

Overall making 15.80/hr of combined 1/2 and 1/3 play

Winning 16.55/hr in 940 hours of 1/3 play.

Over my last 852 hours of 1/3 (when I stared buying in for 300 max) I am winning 19.91/hr

Standard deviation of $105.52/hr

Winning 30/hr in roughly 200 hours in Las Vegas

Played about 650 hours the last year and win 20.72/hr

Thank you all!

Last edited by XXX555666; 05-04-2019 at 01:49 PM. Reason: More info added
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:54 PM   #23713
BennyAdeline
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
https://imgur.com/a/4au3GEG

Hi all!

I have finally gotten to over 1000 hours of live play!

The results are in the link let me know what you guys think please and feel free to comment anything and on my graph!

Overall making 15.80/hr of combined 1/2 and 1/3 play

Winning 16.55/hr in 940 hours of 1/3 play.

Over my last 852 hours of 1/3 (when I stared buying in for 300 max) I am winning 19.91/hr

Standard deviation of $105.52/hr

Winning 30/hr in roughly 200 hours in Las Vegas

Played about 650 hours the last year and win 20.72/hr

Thank you all!
Looking good man. Keep it up, identify/plug any leaks, and continue studying.
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Old 05-04-2019, 07:42 PM   #23714
XXX555666
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyAdeline View Post
Looking good man. Keep it up, identify/plug any leaks, and continue studying.
Thanks a lot! Definitely have to work on a lot! I probably should study more as well! I don’t put a lot of time into studying at all maybe like an hour a week reading the forums
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:54 AM   #23715
rydeordie99
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

After tracking 533 hours at 1/2 over many years (don't play too much), here are my stats. These were played in 3 different rooms. Rake was $5 for the majority of sessions, but recently it was increased to $7 cap.

Overall
Total Profit: $16,835
Profit / Hr: $31.56
Winning Sessions: 64.6 %
Average Session Length: 4.72 hours



Just for fun, I split the stats into sessions that were less than 5 hours and those that were 5 or more as I always felt that I play optimally with shorter sessions.

Less than 5 hours
Total Profit: $15,227
Profit / Hr: $76.90
Winning Sessions: 74.2 %

Greater than or equal to 5 hours
Total Profit: $1,608
Profit / Hr: $4.79
Winning Sessions: 51.0 %
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:38 PM   #23716
XXX555666
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
https://imgur.com/a/4au3GEG

Hi all!

I have finally gotten to over 1000 hours of live play!

The results are in the link let me know what you guys think please and feel free to comment anything and on my graph!

Overall making 15.80/hr of combined 1/2 and 1/3 play

Winning 16.55/hr in 940 hours of 1/3 play.

Over my last 852 hours of 1/3 (when I stared buying in for 300 max) I am winning 19.91/hr

Standard deviation of $105.52/hr

Winning 30/hr in roughly 200 hours in Las Vegas

Played about 650 hours the last year and win 20.72/hr

Thank you all!
Any comments on thengraph?
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Old 05-06-2019, 02:56 AM   #23717
KID777777
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

wp Richard, keep on grinding
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Old 05-06-2019, 11:31 AM   #23718
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Nice results Richard!

Ggogogo!,imoG
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Old 05-06-2019, 12:12 PM   #23719
DumbosTrunk
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by rydeordie99 View Post
After tracking 533 hours at 1/2 over many years (don't play too much), here are my stats. These were played in 3 different rooms. Rake was $5 for the majority of sessions, but recently it was increased to $7 cap.

Overall
Total Profit: $16,835
Profit / Hr: $31.56
Winning Sessions: 64.6 %
Average Session Length: 4.72 hours



Just for fun, I split the stats into sessions that were less than 5 hours and those that were 5 or more as I always felt that I play optimally with shorter sessions.

Less than 5 hours
Total Profit: $15,227
Profit / Hr: $76.90
Winning Sessions: 74.2 %

Greater than or equal to 5 hours
Total Profit: $1,608
Profit / Hr: $4.79
Winning Sessions: 51.0 %
Good job. One possible reason for the difference in session length results is you occasionally got stuck early on in the longer sessions and played longer to get unstuck. Happens to all of us.
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Old 05-06-2019, 02:03 PM   #23720
c0rnBr34d
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
Good job. One possible reason for the difference in session length results is you occasionally got stuck early on in the longer sessions and played longer to get unstuck. Happens to all of us.
Agreed, and on the other side of this which compounds the disparity my shortest two sessions where I wasn't just waiting for another stake were 1:04, and 1:05. Both times I posted insane hourly rates of 661 and 1504 respectively. While it's only one hour, it still pulls the average up for us low volume rec players.
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Old 05-06-2019, 03:15 PM   #23721
Arsenalbet
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What chance would you give my poker ambition?

In the last three months or so I've been testing my abilities at 1/1 and some 1/2 live poker in London, putting myself in the mind frame as if it was my job, trying to figure out if I could do it profitably as a job. I'm doing it mainly out of curiosity. (I realise 1/1 won't be enough, would like to move up if I'd actually go for it).

I have documented 20 sessions (not a whole lot but let's have a discussion) accumulating to 160-170 hours, which would be close to a month's worth of work if it was my job.

My overall profit is 1720 bbs - my hourly rate 10,4. 13 winning sessions and 7 losing ones, however I usually keep my losses small.

I'm not playing unusually well or bad, haven't run especially great either.

What do you think?
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Old 05-06-2019, 03:49 PM   #23722
Fred_1_15301
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Re: What chance would you give my poker ambition?

Let's say you average 1720 bbs a month. That would equate to an annual gross salary of ~ $41,000 (do you plan to pay taxes?). What is your plan for the months where you happen to run cold? Will you be able to cover the cost of health insurance? I can tell you that I certainly would not be comfortable with this as my only source of income.
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:11 PM   #23723
de4df1sh
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Re: What chance would you give my poker ambition?

Bout 3.5
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:16 PM   #23724
de4df1sh
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What chance would you give my poker ambition?

Poker is a crazy game and I wouldn’t recommend anyone play it.

You’re going to get a ton of people coming in here with “lol sample size” and they have a point.

My guess is that converting one single winning session into a modest losing session of about -150bb will likely lead to a double digit % drop in your win rate.

Playing poker profitably is a totally attainable reality.

I’m curious, what is the rake in your room? Also, what is the highest game that is running regularly?

What I would advise is to keep playing and studying, build up a massive bankroll, something overkill. Then I would build up some more bankroll. This is all assuming we have about 6-12 months worth of living expenses saved up OR some alternative form of income.

In short, I would not plan to play full time for a few more years
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:21 PM   #23725
jdr0317
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Re: What chance would you give my poker ambition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_1_15301 View Post
Let's say you average 1720 bbs a month. That would equate to an annual gross salary of ~ $41,000 (do you plan to pay taxes?). What is your plan for the months where you happen to run cold? Will you be able to cover the cost of health insurance? I can tell you that I certainly would not be comfortable with this as my only source of income.
This is also assuming a lot of things:

1) OP would be playing primarily 1/2 (Right now that's $1.31/$2.62 in USD, so half of what a $2/$5 game is).

2) OP has run around average, making his WR sustainable

3) OP will sustain the same win rate at exclusively 1/2 as he would 1/1 (seems unlikely as worse players gravitate to lower games when available).

But let's assume these are mostly true and OP can beat 1/2 for 15 an hour. Really with taxes, that'll be around 11 an hour in the UK. Then you'd have to subtract from that WR (monthly expenses + monthly rainy day saving) / (# of hours played). This will indicate how much per hour you'd be putting towards things that aren't bankroll building.

Let's say OP is dirt cheap and can live off 1280 pounds a month of spending. At 160 hours, that's another $8 an hour to take out.

So OP's actual net worth is moving up at 3 pounds/hour or 1.5 bb. We can call that a 5 bb / 100 win rate. If we use this variance calculator, and call a year 60000 hands, and his standard dev at 80 bb / 100 hands, some conclusions we draw:

- 6.29% chance of being down actual money at the end of year even living dirt cheap
- a 3.77% chance of experienced a 3000 bb downswing or more (30 buy ins), and it's not out of the realm of possibility to experience a 50 BI downer.

So really, OP would need to have like 60 buy ins minimum to facilitate playing full time. And I don't think 160 hours is enough to truly determine if this is a "good idea".
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