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Old 09-11-2012, 03:09 AM   #2301
Sol Reader
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm mostly with you on that one. I suspect that a) lots of regs aren't that great b) games in America are a lot tougher. Not sure.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:34 AM   #2302
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MaxRhino View Post
Maybe im spoiled due to my situation and overestimating how easy the games are across the country (sick brag?)

I play in ac, borgata primarily. Perhaps the factors of many tourists and general high wealth in the tristate area soften up the games. Also borgata runs 6 to10 2-5s on weekdays which allows game selection.

I also live about 5-8 mins from borgata which i think helps my game a lot because i dont feel presure to 'win right now because i made the trip to the casino damnit'.

It seems shocking to me for a lot of posters here to claim how difficult solid 2-5 winrates are when i only experience games that are very beatable.

This is the lamest brag post ever
Simple explanations is that players do not live in major casino hubs such as AC and Vegas.

Where I live, we don't even get 5 2/5 tables on the weekend.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:35 AM   #2303
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I started keeping track of my live play in June. I used to work but recently quit (not specifically to play poker full time, I just didn't like my job) so I've had more time to play poker lately and have just passed 100 hours this month.

My recordkeeping isn't that detailed, I've only tracked date, length and winnings (I only play 1/2 at one room).

Winnings: $2,599
Hours: 112.82
Hourly: $23.04
# of winning sessions: 16
# of losing sessions: 5
# of breakeven sessions (+/-$25): 6

Brief sessions (<2:30)
Winnings: $379
Hours: 13.87
Hourly: $27.33
# of winning sessions: 3
# of losing sessions: 1
# of breakeven sessions (+/-$25): 3

Normal sessions (2:30-5:00)
Winnings: $1,795
Hours: 64.12
Hourly: $28.00
# of winning sessions: 10
# of losing sessions: 3
# of breakeven sessions (+/-$25): 3

Long sessions (>5:00)
Winnings: $406
Hours: 36.83
Hourly: $11.02
# of winning sessions: 3
# of losing sessions: 1
# of breakeven sessions (+/-$25): 0

I'm aware that 110 hours is a very small sample size and I don't think I can sustain >$20/hour, at least not now. Maybe in the future.

I do think the ratio of winning:losing sessions is relevant though, even for this small sample. At the table it seems like I'm always trickling money waiting for a hand or waiting to hit and I expected to have a lot more small losing sessions. Apparently not.

I also probably shouldn't play more than 5 hours, too bad I didn't record splits in those sessions because the first 5 is probably where all the profit is and the rest is just coasting.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:44 AM   #2304
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
I started keeping track of my live play in June. I used to work but recently quit (not specifically to play poker full time, I just didn't like my job) so I've had more time to play poker lately and have just passed 100 hours this month.

My recordkeeping isn't that detailed, I've only tracked date, length and winnings (I only play 1/2 at one room).

Winnings: $2,599
Hours: 112.82
Hourly: $23.04
# of winning sessions: 16
# of losing sessions: 5
# of breakeven sessions (+/-$25): 6

Brief sessions (<2:30)
Winnings: $379
Hours: 13.87
Hourly: $27.33
# of winning sessions: 3
# of losing sessions: 1
# of breakeven sessions (+/-$25): 3

Normal sessions (2:30-5:00)
Winnings: $1,795
Hours: 64.12
Hourly: $28.00
# of winning sessions: 10
# of losing sessions: 3
# of breakeven sessions (+/-$25): 3

Long sessions (>5:00)
Winnings: $406
Hours: 36.83
Hourly: $11.02
# of winning sessions: 3
# of losing sessions: 1
# of breakeven sessions (+/-$25): 0

I'm aware that 110 hours is a very small sample size and I don't think I can sustain >$20/hour, at least not now. Maybe in the future.

I do think the ratio of winning:losing sessions is relevant though, even for this small sample. At the table it seems like I'm always trickling money waiting for a hand or waiting to hit and I expected to have a lot more small losing sessions. Apparently not.

I also probably shouldn't play more than 5 hours, too bad I didn't record splits in those sessions because the first 5 is probably where all the profit is and the rest is just coasting.
when you play more than 5 hours are you playing because you are stuck or because the game is good?
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:24 AM   #2305
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm from CT and primarily play at Foxwoods (during the week), my winrate is 45-50$hr over 700 hrs.

I have played at the Borgata probably 6 or 7 days and can certainly say the games there are much easier and it would be way more profitable. The game selection is ridiculous, like you said.

I have been in Vegas for almost 2 weeks now and can say that I think the Borgata has the best selection for 2/5-5/10 that I've seen. Only place I think might be better is Florida (with new structure).

Borgata 2/5 is also time rake which helps winrate too.

If you live close your certainly spoiled.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:06 AM   #2306
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb View Post
when you play more than 5 hours are you playing because you are stuck or because the game is good?
Because the game is better than average. Probably not good enough to justify putting in a marathon session. I don't think playing that long is optimal, even if it seems like the game is good.

Usually when I quit it's like a light going off. "Hey, I'm getting kind of tired sitting at this table. I should [rack up soon|drink coffee & reevaluate]"
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:29 PM   #2307
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxRhino View Post

50/hr is very attainable at 2/5. You can run basic tag with sprinkles of creativity and get those numbers easy. 50/hr is even on the low side imo if you consider yourself top 10% of players in your regular 2/5 games.
not sure where u figgered this one out - but its not true for vegas. I know many top winnars in 2/5 (myself included) not a barg but a fact. And to get 50$/hr takes a lot more than basic tag. Dudes that win oer 50/hr in vegas for large sample sizes have a very nice bag of tricks and have worked VERY hard on their game...no simpe tag with some sprinkles of creativity
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:27 PM   #2308
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not sure where u figgered this one out - but its not true for vegas. I know many top winnars in 2/5 (myself included) not a barg but a fact. And to get 50$/hr takes a lot more than basic tag. Dudes that win oer 50/hr in vegas for large sample sizes have a very nice bag of tricks and have worked VERY hard on their game...no simpe tag with some sprinkles of creativity
Read my follow up. I play ac, borgata primarily. Im speculating that a lot of factors lead to really soft games here as compared to other places.
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:34 PM   #2309
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I've found the games in AC to be pretty much identical to the games at Delaware Park and Harrah's Philly. This is 1/2 NL, don't know about 2/5. Typically 1 or 2 huge fish, 5-6 loose pre/tight post nits/bad regs, and maybe 1 or 2 decent TAG regs including yourself.
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:44 PM   #2310
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Sol Reader View Post
I'm mostly with you on that one. I suspect that a) lots of regs aren't that great b) games in America are a lot tougher. Not sure.
My regular room has 4 guys that play 2/5 for a living. I would class 3 of them as bad and only 1 of them as a good player. But they are all less bad than the tourists, so they make enough to live on.

Bad players can be winners by sitting with terrible players.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:47 PM   #2311
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Originally Posted by mpethybridge View Post
Bad players can be winners by sitting with terrible players.
+1

Sorta like the old joke: you don't have to be able to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun at least one other person in your group that the bear is chasing.

GslightlylessterriblethanthoseIplaywithG
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:28 PM   #2312
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Playing 1/2, at 50hrs, I avg $52/hr and now at 150hrs, I avg $47/hr. I play 80% of my sessions on Friday night or Saturday at all times, increasing my fish:shark ratio. Sounds dumb, but it really increases my likelihood of success.

Style is LAG but I can tighten up when I need to. My VPIP is upwards of 40%, but I mix cbets against selective players (nits I'll just do it ~100%). Also, I seldom ever limp.

1. I always buyin for the max ($300) and I reload to full if I ever drop below $200. Is this strategy still viable at 2/5, when the stakes take a big jump?

2. Do I stay at 1/2 or do I make the jump to 2/5? BR is comfy, but not completely expendable.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:41 PM   #2313
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by theMANzalone View Post
Playing 1/2, at 50hrs, I avg $52/hr and now at 150hrs, I avg $47/hr. I play 80% of my sessions on Friday night or Saturday at all times, increasing my fish:shark ratio. Sounds dumb, but it really increases my likelihood of success.
Friday and Saturday are the best days to play because people get paid on Friday. By Sunday all the fish have lost their money.

That winrate is insane by the way.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:28 PM   #2314
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150 hours is really a small sample.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:42 PM   #2315
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

150 hours is a heater, not a sample size. I'm currently on one at 2/5. I've made $12k in just over 100 hours since August 1st. I'm waiting on getting kicked in the face, but it hasn't happened yet . The part about the weekend is true though. I work a 9-5, so all of my hours are from Friday ~7pm to Sunday morning.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:45 PM   #2316
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

inb4 I brag about my winrate.

40% vpip seems way too high, and I used to be a pathological lag.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:54 PM   #2317
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I think I might beginning to get winrate envy with all these big winrates being tossed around in here. Mine's currently just over 8 BBs/hr at the 730 hr mark of live 1/3 NL. I was sorta proud of it, but now it seems, kinda, pedestrian.

GI'veheardyourwinratelooksbiggerifyoulookatitfromi nfrontinsteadofaboveG
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:27 PM   #2318
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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I think I might beginning to get winrate envy with all these big winrates being tossed around in here. Mine's currently just over 8 BBs/hr at the 730 hr mark of live 1/3 NL. I was sorta proud of it, but now it seems, kinda, pedestrian.

GI'veheardyourwinratelooksbiggerifyoulookatitfromi nfrontinsteadofaboveG
How much do you tip? I'm pretty conservative with tipping and it still amounts to around a 1.5bb/hr ($3) winrate reduction at 1/2 NL.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:29 PM   #2319
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People inflate everything on these boards. Notice how noone is eer a losing player?

Anything above 7bb is crushing IMO
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:58 PM   #2320
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How much do you tip? I'm pretty conservative with tipping and it still amounts to around a 1.5bb/hr ($3) winrate reduction at 1/2 NL.
I typically don't tip if the hand doesn't see a flop, if I take down a limped pot with only one bet, or if I take down a raised 3-way/HU pot with only one bet. Otherwise I'll typically tip $1 (I've never tipped more), unless the dealer is really bad at their job (which in some ways is kinda pointless since the dealer tips here are pooled, but whatever, maybe the point might get across).

GcheapoG
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:00 PM   #2321
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People inflate everything on these boards. Notice how noone is eer a losing player?

Anything above 7bb is crushing IMO
Maybe I'm too gullible. I'm assuming this board attracts / keeps long term winners, so I typically take all claims of winrates at face value.
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:13 PM   #2322
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

when i read these absurd win rates, i kind of feel like they aren't including the losing sessions in calculating them.
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:17 PM   #2323
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Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb View Post
when i read these absurd win rates, i kind of feel like they aren't including the losing sessions in calculating them.
I dunno, sometimes you can get a sense when someone seems to be drawing their rates from an accurate spreadsheet ("I'm 6.4 BBs/hr over 632 hrs", where I would think it's safe to assume they're entering all data) versus not ("I like usually win between $200 and $300 every time I go and play poker").
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:09 PM   #2324
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People inflate everything on these boards. Notice how noone is eer a losing player?

Anything above 7bb is crushing IMO
This. Every single person on this site claims to be an enormous winner at 1/2 or 2/5 NL, but interestingly enough, in my experience when I end up at actual tables with 2p2ers they're horrifyingly bad about half the time.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:10 PM   #2325
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when i read these absurd win rates, i kind of feel like they aren't including the losing sessions in calculating them.
Bingo.
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