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Old 01-31-2019, 06:12 PM   #23076
MikeStarr
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I keep track of a ton of stuff on a spreadsheet. I can tell you that my "set mining" profit is 11.1% of my total profit.

That includes all money made set mining minus all money lost calling raises with pps and then folding the flop.

Another 5% of my total profit comes from pps when I call a raise telling myself Im set mining but then have a reason to continue post flop without a set.

So folding these small to mid pps would cost me 16% of my total profit. That's no small amount. Not playing them is insane.
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:20 PM   #23077
XtraScratch8
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I agree with Mike here. The other factor that he isn’t even counting here is how many more calls he gets in general on all streets by including these hands in his preflop range.
Without them as part of your potential range I feel like your range becomes too narrow and predictable to be paid off in all kinds of situations.
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:22 PM   #23078
MikeStarr
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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I keep track of a ton of stuff on a spreadsheet. I can tell you that my "set mining" profit is 11.1% of my total profit.

That includes all money made set mining minus all money lost calling raises with pps and then folding the flop.

Another 5% of my total profit comes from pps when I call a raise telling myself Im set mining but then have a reason to continue post flop without a set.

So folding these small to mid pps would cost me 16% of my total profit. That's no small amount. Not playing them is insane.
Notice how I kept my post in relation to win rates...and not strategy?
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:15 PM   #23079
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

But Mike, along the rock star vs loser sliding scale, where would you place yourself? For most non rock stars, they're likely losing with them if they're not playing extremely well postflop (especially OOP). ETA: I mean, decreasing their winrate, decreasing their winrate!

Would be super interesting to see your spreadsheets. I would think it would be very taxing to track every hand / record results / analyze results periodically (I actually attempted myself for a small subset of hands over just an 8 session stretch and found it draining), but kudus to you for doing it.

GcluelessstattrackingnoobG
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:21 PM   #23080
MikeStarr
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
But Mike, along the rock star vs loser sliding scale, where would you place yourself? For most non rock stars, they're likely losing with them if they're not playing extremely well postflop (especially OOP). ETA: I mean, decreasing their winrate, decreasing their winrate!

Would be super interesting to see your spreadsheets. I would think it would be very taxing to track every hand / record results / analyze results periodically (I actually attempted myself for a small subset of hands over just an 8 session stretch and found it draining), but kudus to you for doing it.

GcluelessstattrackingnoobG
Lots of people say that but I find it very easy and it helps a lot in figuring out which certain categories of hands Im being profitable with and which Im not.
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:44 PM   #23081
XtraScratch8
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Notice how I kept my post in relation to win rates...and not strategy?
Aha! Noted.
Very sly.
Apologies for slight derail.
Also very curious about these stats.
Do you track the position that you play them all in as well?
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:06 PM   #23082
Hamlet
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I keep track of a ton of stuff on a spreadsheet. I can tell you that my "set mining" profit is 11.1% of my total profit.

That includes all money made set mining minus all money lost calling raises with pps and then folding the flop.

Another 5% of my total profit comes from pps when I call a raise telling myself Im set mining but then have a reason to continue post flop without a set.

So folding these small to mid pps would cost me 16% of my total profit. That's no small amount. Not playing them is insane.
I would expect that more of that 16% profit comes from those hands in late position than from early position though, right? How much can folding 22 UTG really cost anyone, even a crusher, winrate-wise? How much do more marginal players lose with it UTG?
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Old 01-31-2019, 09:10 PM   #23083
MikeStarr
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Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
I would expect that more of that 16% profit comes from those hands in late position than from early position though, right? How much can folding 22 UTG really cost anyone, even a crusher, winrate-wise? How much do more marginal players lose with it UTG?
We are getting into strategy now so Im not going to go into that other than to say, I limp pps from EP all day every day at most 2/5 tables. 5/10 is different.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:38 PM   #23084
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I keep track of a ton of stuff on a spreadsheet. I can tell you that my "set mining" profit is 11.1% of my total profit.

That includes all money made set mining minus all money lost calling raises with pps and then folding the flop.

Another 5% of my total profit comes from pps when I call a raise telling myself Im set mining but then have a reason to continue post flop without a set.

So folding these small to mid pps would cost me 16% of my total profit. That's no small amount. Not playing them is insane.
Would you be willing to present a more complete report on your statistics?
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:27 AM   #23085
johnnyBuz
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The lag was better than the mythical passive unicorn you encountered that limped tons of **** and never went above 3x?
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:36 PM   #23086
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It’s really close, but yes I think so. The mythical unicorn only used this strat at 2/5. He played much more standard tag (albeit still good) at 10/20, the few times we played together.

That is what always perplexed me about him. His weird passivity was clearly an adaptation, not a trait. If that makes sense. I would guess our winrates were similar at 10/20, I’d possibly even have an edge on him. At 2/5 however, I would believe an $80 hourly from him....which is far more impressive than mine and $20ish more than what I think is possible

The lag, he still played extremely crazy at 5/10. (I’ve never played higher with him). If anything, the depth of 5/10 made him more insane. Sounds really corny, but I swear his style reminded me of durrrr on HSP. Just would take really weird lines that made total sense in hindsight, and always seems like he knew what villain had exactly.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:11 AM   #23087
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Garick View Post
browni, please just do some searching, rather than just posting about the way you think it should be. It has been conclusively shown (including the graphs) on this forum that variance is higher the more your winrate is based on SDV, especially AIEV. If you are a an aggressive nit or a short-stacker, you are often at the mercy of the deck with cards yet to come. If you chose those situations well, you will be ++EV, but you still will be playing for stacks with vulnerable hands often. Thus your graph will look like a richter scale.

This is hard to see live, as we don't track stack depth changes hand-by-hand like online trackers do. We track by session, where it is much less clear that the nit's profit came from one AA AIPF that held for a double up, and the LAG's came from a series of small-medium stabs.
Interesting side note I remember way back in the day pre black Friday...mpethy had told me that although theoretically a lag could achieve a higher win rate than a tag nobody was pulling it off...this was online obv....would be interesting if we could see the everyone's live stats to see if it is much more possible vs the weaker competition which I'm sure it is especially in loose passive games..... definitely some nuggets to be gleened there tho.
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Old 02-03-2019, 12:27 PM   #23088
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hi guys,

I will post a full report once i reach 1k hours in live total

Can I please have some honest feedback and opinions?

I have a full time job and play poker usually two days a week on the side and take it serious with a few trips to Las Vegas a a year to grind.

Over the course of 840 hours I have a $12.13 total winrate and winning 12.65/hr at 1/3 with 751 hours and 7.74 an hour at 1/2 over 88 hours.

Over the last 750 hours I am winning a total of 15.22/hr with 16.43/hr at 1/3 over 664 hours.

Thoughts on this overall? My first 100 hours were pretty bad and over my last 750 hours I started to buy in for the max (300). I was definitely scared money overall.

thank you guys so much.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:55 PM   #23089
cannabusto
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Richard, you're winning about 5 bbs an hour over your first several hundred tracked hours, yeah? That's great.
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:13 PM   #23090
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Richard, you're winning about 5 bbs an hour over your first several hundred tracked hours, yeah? That's great.
Hey Cannabusto!

Appreciate the input!

I think I put so much thought into winrate and even though I understand individual results shouldn’t matter/ I should just focus on making the correct decision. Sometimes it’s hard not to be results oriented.

It’s nice to just take a step back sometimes and look at my results over the long term (my first 100 hours were pretty bad/ I bought in short)

I lost a pretty big pot yesterday as a huge favorite and just feel kinda down from it even though I shouldn’t be.

But yeah since I got my full time job I’m winning a little over $15/hr over 750 hours at 1/3 and 1/2 combined.. not sure I’ll ever be able to obtain the 10bb/hr level over a significant sample size
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:52 PM   #23091
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Most players lose. 10bb/hr is crushing the game. You are at least squeezing it.
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Old 02-04-2019, 12:49 PM   #23092
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi guys,

I will post a full report once i reach 1k hours in live total

Can I please have some honest feedback and opinions?

I have a full time job and play poker usually two days a week on the side and take it serious with a few trips to Las Vegas a a year to grind.

Over the course of 840 hours I have a $12.13 total winrate and winning 12.65/hr at 1/3 with 751 hours and 7.74 an hour at 1/2 over 88 hours.

Over the last 750 hours I am winning a total of 15.22/hr with 16.43/hr at 1/3 over 664 hours.

Thoughts on this overall? My first 100 hours were pretty bad and over my last 750 hours I started to buy in for the max (300). I was definitely scared money overall.

thank you guys so much.
You're winning at more than a non-breakevenish clip, which is likely much better than the vast majority of your opponents (most of which are losers, especially in a raked game).

Gyou'redoingfine,imoG
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:20 PM   #23093
typesick
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Well MikeStarr, the mod deleted our texts in that other thread and told us to post here. But anyway, yeah, it’s very possible for really good regs to make $75+/hr long term in today’s 2/5 games...and not only in Los Angeles. I always find it interesting that many regs feel that it’s only possible to make something like $40-45/hr, which is conveniently right at or just barely above what they’re currently making. Funny how that works.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:23 PM   #23094
gobbledygeek
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Originally Posted by typesick View Post
Well MikeStarr, the mod deleted our texts in that other thread and told us to post here. But anyway, yeah, it’s very possible for really good regs to make $75+/hr long term in today’s 2/5 games...not just in Los Angeles. I always find it interesting that many regs feel that it’s only possible to make something like $40-45/hr, which is conveniently right at or just barely above what they’re currently making. Funny how that works.
Now doubt flood of giraffes over reasonable sample sizes incoming to help provide at least some sort of proof to this claim?

GnotholdingmybreathG
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:34 PM   #23095
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by typesick View Post
Well MikeStarr, the mod deleted our texts in that other thread and told us to post here. But anyway, yeah, it’s very possible for really good regs to make $75+/hr long term in today’s 2/5 games...and not only in Los Angeles. I always find it interesting that many regs feel that it’s only possible to make something like $40-45/hr, which is conveniently right at or just barely above what they’re currently making. Funny how that works.
You are most certainly running well above expectation. It's live poker, it's super slow, you can run above expectation your whole life and never know it.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:34 PM   #23096
typesick
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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Now doubt flood of giraffes over reasonable sample sizes incoming to help provide at least some sort of proof to this claim?

GnotholdingmybreathG
I know several regs who have such winrates but they don’t post here. Not sure about the regs who are posting here. The vast majority of “good” regs around here may just be the standard average unimaginative and unimpressive regs that generally play in the 2/5 games across the country and make like $30/hour.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:37 PM   #23097
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Oh, well then I stand corrected.

GasyouwereeveryoneG
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:50 PM   #23098
typesick
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You are most certainly running well above expectation. It's live poker, it's super slow, you can run above expectation your whole life and never know it.
How many consecutive years can my friends and I run above expectation?
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:59 PM   #23099
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How many consecutive years can my friends and I run above expectation?
Excellent question that fits well with the thread IMO. How many hours per year are you guys logging? What are your results?
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:16 PM   #23100
MikeStarr
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How many consecutive years can my friends and I run above expectation?
I travel a lot. Where do you and your friends play? Id love to play at your table and see the greatness in action.
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