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Old 12-19-2018, 11:45 PM   #22751
7weeks2days
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Would be interesting to hear your friends objections to this reasoning, cuz I can't think of a single positive long term upward trend, let alone one that would offset all the negative reasons you state as to why games can only get worse (which I agree with).

GcluelessdelusionalnoobG
lol, tbh, his reasoning didn't seem to make much sense to me and I think he was just trying to say something to make himself feel better because he planned on playing poker indefinitely and I don't really blame him. I am paraphrasing, but it was something along the lines of IF wages were to go up then people would have more money to play with? Maybe that would mean that even though games wouldn't get bigger from a blind perspective smaller games may play deeper in the future with weaker player pools? I didn't really agree at the time. All the reasons I listed before seemed very valid and very real and what he said didn't seem to change that. Interesting part is now he makes it very clear that he is over poker and actively looking for something else. But similar to many poker players I talk to, they tend to be looking for these unicorn opportunities that are difficult to find without non poker hard skills so they just continue to play poker.
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Old 12-20-2018, 03:00 AM   #22752
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hmm building up my bankroll so for for 1/3. Currently have 12 BIs lost about $1600 last 2 sessions.

You guys think I should stick with 100bb buy in or drop down to 50bb buy in?
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:29 AM   #22753
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Hmm building up my bankroll so for for 1/3. Currently have 12 BIs lost about $1600 last 2 sessions.

You guys think I should stick with 100bb buy in or drop down to 50bb buy in?
do you depend on poker for living expenses?

if not, i would stick with buying in max if you think you have an edge in the game.
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:21 AM   #22754
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

As i’m Sitting here for ~20 minutes waiting for a table it has me thinking - do you guys factor in waiting for table time in your hourly win rate calc?
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:33 AM   #22755
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Nah, my winrate is purely my winrate at the table. I don't play anywhere with regular hh's or bonuses etc but that'd be the only thing I'd incorporate into it, and I'd use a separate results tab to see my hourly with and without bonuses.
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Old 12-21-2018, 02:04 AM   #22756
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by twitcherroo View Post
As i’m Sitting here for ~20 minutes waiting for a table it has me thinking - do you guys factor in waiting for table time in your hourly win rate calc?
Depends on what you're using the info for. For bankroll calculations, no, for evaluating different options (playing in the game across the street with quicker lists, getting a job, etc), yes, for example. Same with things like traffic conditions, comped food, etc.
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:27 PM   #22757
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I think it's flawed to count commute time toward hourly. You have to commute to any job. Also for that reason shouldn't deduct food costs from net winnings cause you need to eat for any job. Unless you mean ADDING comped food to your hourly but I would also disagree cause comped food is basically your "benefits" as a poker player.
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:27 PM   #22758
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by twitcherroo View Post
As i’m Sitting here for ~20 minutes waiting for a table it has me thinking - do you guys factor in waiting for table time in your hourly win rate calc?
Ive pondered this also but just like your hourly at work, commute time isnt included.

Still an important consideration. I used to have an 1 drive to work, and worked 45 hours a week. Then I moved and had a 15 minute drive. Life ev improves. Hourly does not.
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:30 PM   #22759
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I typically try to play any game that’s profitable.

I’ve sat in 5/10 and 10/25 games for a spell while waiting for my normal stakes even though that’s typically way higher than I’d normally play.

I’d probably even sit in a limit or plo game
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Old 12-21-2018, 05:10 PM   #22760
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You shouldn't count it in your hourly. But you should count it when comparing two different game or location options.
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:11 PM   #22761
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I’m very fortunate to have 2 rooms with 15 minutes of my house and they’re generally enough tables running there’s no wait. Just got me thinking. Thanks for the input. This day game is crushable and has broken me out of a 150 hr play bad / run bad funk. Thank you loose passive table.
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Old 12-22-2018, 02:25 AM   #22762
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Sigh, one of my biggest flaws at the poker tables is my ego. This month I've played so far 45 hours and up 174$ the last 4 sessions I've had I've lost 2100$ and 1 session was from bad beats/coolers. But the other 3? I can't honestly say I played well.

When I sit at the poker tables I believe Im the best player there and I let my ego control that. In turn i start making bad opens, bad raises etc. My overall game changes. I've just realized this after reflecting on my last 4 sessions.

Does anyone have any advice or a link for controlling my ego ?
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:20 AM   #22763
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
I think it's flawed to count commute time toward hourly. You have to commute to any job. Also for that reason shouldn't deduct food costs from net winnings cause you need to eat for any job. Unless you mean ADDING comped food to your hourly but I would also disagree cause comped food is basically your "benefits" as a poker player.
It depends on what you're using the info for. If you want to calculate your standard deviation you shouldn't use it. If you want to compare the opportunity cost of sitting in the game vs driving Knish's truck you should. Those factors certainly do both exist and vary so it's strange to say considering them is simply flawed.
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Old 12-22-2018, 09:11 AM   #22764
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by adrianpk View Post
Sigh, one of my biggest flaws at the poker tables is my ego. This month I've played so far 45 hours and up 174$ the last 4 sessions I've had I've lost 2100$ and 1 session was from bad beats/coolers. But the other 3? I can't honestly say I played well.

When I sit at the poker tables I believe Im the best player there and I let my ego control that. In turn i start making bad opens, bad raises etc. My overall game changes. I've just realized this after reflecting on my last 4 sessions.

Does anyone have any advice or a link for controlling my ego ?


Entitlement tilt.

Read the mental game of poker books
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Old 12-22-2018, 06:12 PM   #22765
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

played my last session of poker for the year last night so time for my annual results post.

Live in home poker room

2/3 (500) 120 hours +$7309 $60.90ph
2/5/10 (1000) 291 hours +$17,701 $60.75ph

Live while travelling

1/2 Lon (400) 19 hours +100 GBP GBP 5.26ph
2/5 Melb (500) 25 hours - $260 $-10.40 ph

Live cash total

+$24,930 in 456 hours

Online hold em

3/6 (600) 7470 hands +$6164

PLO

Live 1/3 (300) 4 hours +$300
Online 1/2 (400) 1850 hands -$700


Stupid ****ing live MTTs (inc swaps)

1/17 cashes - $10,470


Total Profit $20,224
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:54 PM   #22766
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Obviously play more tournaments cause your due.

Nice work!!!!
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Old 12-22-2018, 08:08 PM   #22767
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that's the plan - I've been hoping that was true for the past 3 years. (a buddy of mine in my strat group won 6 figures last week so the dream is still there.)

Started mtt life with something like 6/10 cashes from my first 10 $1k+ buy in mtts and I'm something like 2/25 since.

mtts still showing a slight profit overall lifetime, but pickings have been very slim. I lost a 500bb pot in level 8 or 9 of a $3k in July when an 80% favourite when the money went in on the flop but other than that I haven't got close to a dominant position all year.
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Old 12-23-2018, 12:02 AM   #22768
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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that's the plan - I've been hoping that was true for the past 3 years. (a buddy of mine in my strat group won 6 figures last week so the dream is still there.)

Started mtt life with something like 6/10 cashes from my first 10 $1k+ buy in mtts and I'm something like 2/25 since.

mtts still showing a slight profit overall lifetime, but pickings have been very slim. I lost a 500bb pot in level 8 or 9 of a $3k in July when an 80% favourite when the money went in on the flop but other than that I haven't got close to a dominant position all year.

The biggest true cost of mtt's is opportunity cost of your cash hourly. Being slightly profitable def not good enough to justify continuing imo. I only play tournies if it's very good value, I'm not going too much out of my way to play them, and there isn't a good cash game I'm forgoing in order to play the mtt.
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Old 12-23-2018, 01:11 AM   #22769
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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The biggest true cost of mtt's is opportunity cost of your cash hourly. Being slightly profitable def not good enough to justify continuing imo. I only play tournies if it's very good value, I'm not going too much out of my way to play them, and there isn't a good cash game I'm forgoing in order to play the mtt.
I get the POV but it's entirely inaccurate for me and my motivations for playing poker. While the money I make playing poker is cool, the amount of hours I can play per year at...say $40 or 50 an hour just isn't enough to make a marked improvement to my life, whereas a big tourney bink could/would.

I actually enjoy and look forward to big mtts and the prospect of binking one (while of course a form of gambling) is something I think about a lot.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:20 AM   #22770
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You're right. I apologize, my comments were more-so directed at full-time professionals.

I just know waaaaayyy too many low stakes grinders who ask me for advice, and that's normally what I tell them -- stop playing mtt's.

For the part-time player/serious hobbyist, there's much more merit to playing tournaments (particularly if you enjoy them).
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:21 AM   #22771
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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You're right. I apologize, my comments were more-so directed at full-time professionals.


MTTs are ******ed though
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Old 12-23-2018, 07:50 AM   #22772
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by YGOchamp View Post
You're right. I apologize, my comments were more-so directed at full-time professionals.

I just know waaaaayyy too many low stakes grinders who ask me for advice, and that's normally what I tell them -- stop playing mtt's.

For the part-time player/serious hobbyist, there's much more merit to playing tournaments (particularly if you enjoy them).
This so much. I only play big field value MTTs. Even then, I'm looking at it as basically a lottery ticket. I'm not playing it for my expected hourly (I'd be playing cash if that was my main concern at that moment in time); I'm playing it hoping to be on the positive side of variance. The fact is that a winning cash player is going to have a higher hourly then a winning tournament player for the same required bankroll. I've noticed that most people who catch the tourny bug don't seem to be big cash winners anyhow, so this point might be a bit moot.

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Old 12-23-2018, 09:52 AM   #22773
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

nice werk FW

very strong cash results

keepin it real and showin that middle age (no offense) rec dudes can stomp! Most impressive sir

MTT's suck - phuc em
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Old 12-23-2018, 12:37 PM   #22774
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'll weigh in, too, for the middle aged crowd (EAD skwid), since I've likely played my last session for the year.

1087 hours of 2/3 NLHE ($400 max)
+$26,165
(I also get $2/hr comps, so add that to my hourly for something more accurate)

I'm not displeased, especially considering that I play morning/afternoon games which are rock-infested with the retirees.

My hourly for MTTs on the year is double that, so eff you guys. ;-)

I haven't tallied online results (I'm USA). I'm up somewhere around $1.5 or $2k for the year online.
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Old 12-23-2018, 12:41 PM   #22775
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Originally Posted by AllJackedUp View Post
I'll weigh in, too, for the middle aged crowd (EAD skwid), since I've likely played my last session for the year.

1087 hours of 2/3 NLHE ($400 max)
+$26,165
(I also get $2/hr comps, so add that to my hourly for something more accurate)

I'm not displeased, especially considering that I play morning/afternoon games which are rock-infested with the retirees.

My hourly for MTTs on the year is double that, so eff you guys. ;-)

I haven't tallied online results (I'm USA). I'm up somewhere around $1.5 or $2k for the year online.
Well done. 9bb is impressive. Even if it's "only" 1100 hours like someone in this forum is bound to say.
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