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Old 10-10-2018, 02:44 PM   #22501
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Exactly. 5+ handed to a flop is really a question of "who has the nuts, who has a good draw to the nuts, and who's the idiot piling it in dead"? In those situations, preflop hand selection and position become super important.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:56 PM   #22502
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It seems so easy to just nit it up and be a big favorite in live PLO. I'm a rec who does not count on poker money, but does find many useful uses for it. I don't care about moving up stakes as 2/5 NLHE is the highest game that goes and it rarely offers a better hourly than the best 1/3 game in my room. I don't foresee myself ever having a 50 buy-in PLO roll unless I bink a tourney someday.

However, I have thought about playing 1/2 PLO with a $5 bring in 10-20% of my hours. Thoughts? Seems like a decent compromise between chasing a higher hourly without increasing my risk all too much. I'd probably buy-in short, in the 200-300 range.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:21 PM   #22503
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannabusto View Post
It seems so easy to just nit it up and be a big favorite in live PLO. I'm a rec who does not count on poker money, but does find many useful uses for it. I don't care about moving up stakes as 2/5 NLHE is the highest game that goes and it rarely offers a better hourly than the best 1/3 game in my room. I don't foresee myself ever having a 50 buy-in PLO roll unless I bink a tourney someday.

However, I have thought about playing 1/2 PLO with a $5 bring in 10-20% of my hours. Thoughts? Seems like a decent compromise between chasing a higher hourly without increasing my risk all too much. I'd probably buy-in short, in the 200-300 range.
Seems fine since you don't count on poker money. If you hit a brutal downswing in PLO that makes you feel uncomfortable re total poker bankroll, just take a break from PLO until you replenish.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:55 PM   #22504
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you wanted to move close to the best 1/2 or 1/3 games (would need some bigger buy ins, at least 500) in the US for a year... regardless of life outside poker where would it be? vegas for game selection? okla? maryland? texas? louisana? mississippi? also heard good things about Saudia casino in NM... they have match a stack 1/2 and 1/3 i believe
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:08 PM   #22505
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

There are a million threads on that subject in Casino and Cardroom Poker forum. If you DGAF about life outside poker, consider WinStar Casino in Thakerville, OK, but if you'd like to discuss more I suggest the "best city for a poker pro" thread in C&CP.
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:27 PM   #22506
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There are a million threads on that subject in Casino and Cardroom Poker forum. If you DGAF about life outside poker, consider WinStar Casino in Thakerville, OK, but if you'd like to discuss more I suggest the "best city for a poker pro" thread in C&CP.
Didnt find any in regards to deeper games... winstar is 100bb
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:08 PM   #22507
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You didn't mention anything about deeper games. Regardless, you can't ignore the "non-poker" aspect of picking a place to play. There's a big difference between paying to stay and eat in SF vs say Detroit or Tampa. So the same winrate goes farther in some places and has a huge impact on your overall profitability.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:10 PM   #22508
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You didn't mention anything about deeper games. Regardless, you can't ignore the "non-poker" aspect of picking a place to play. There's a big difference between paying to stay and eat in SF vs say Detroit or Tampa. So the same winrate goes farther in some places and has a huge impact on your overall profitability.
read my first sentence and part in parenthesis. i plan on strictly focusing on poker for a year and not much social life
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:56 PM   #22509
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by BayAreaLegend View Post
read my first sentence and part in parenthesis. i plan on strictly focusing on poker for a year and not much social life
Winstar has a very soft player pool and low cost of living. The 1/2 is 200 cap but I think you'd still make more than most places especially factoring in COL. You'll have a hard time finding soft deep stacked 1/2 games.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:16 PM   #22510
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You still need to put a roof over your head and buy food.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:28 PM   #22511
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You still need to put a roof over your head and buy food.
ill van dwell if i have to. i eat meat and veggies!
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:36 PM   #22512
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Not being a hater but winstar was super depressing for me and I was there for fun one weekend with my wife and a friend. I was insulted a lot patrons; one of them wanted to start a fight because he thought I bluffed him, another called me anorexic because I'm skinny. Keep in mind I don't talk **** at the table. Other random snide comments too in PLO8. A few of the guys were very fun though and getting **** faced having a great time. I've never been insulted so directly than at winstar though. It smells like cigarettes and there isn't anything else for miles. It's an enormous mecca of slot machines with the poker room tucked way in the back. The games are stupid soft though.
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Old 10-16-2018, 12:35 AM   #22513
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by mdelore View Post
Not being a hater but winstar was super depressing for me and I was there for fun one weekend with my wife and a friend. I was insulted a lot patrons; one of them wanted to start a fight because he thought I bluffed him, another called me anorexic because I'm skinny. Keep in mind I don't talk **** at the table. Other random snide comments too in PLO8. A few of the guys were very fun though and getting **** faced having a great time. I've never been insulted so directly than at winstar though. It smells like cigarettes and there isn't anything else for miles. It's an enormous mecca of slot machines with the poker room tucked way in the back. The games are stupid soft though.
I agree. Lot of rude players and not that nice a room. My first game there was this Asian man on my left playing like 70/70 and bluffing like crazy, having a blast. An older white man with a cowboy hat to the left of the Asian man was constantly insulting him to his face. Calling him an idiot, must be on drugs, etc. Maniac left after an hour. I wanted to punch the old man but stayed calm. Saw a lot of stuff like that. Terrible old men insulting younger players for no particular reason. Also a large amount of young donks dressed like they're playing the WSOP bitching and moaning when they lose their 50 dollar stack. Typical 1/2 behavior just uncomfortably frequent.

Still the games were really soft. Players so bad you feel embarrassed for them. Had a guy raise me OTF then call off a large shove with a naked BDFD (which he binked vs my set). I ran horribly my two trips to Winstar. I kept getting my money in as like a 97% favorite and losing. Since then I've realized just how insanely hard it is to GII as a 97% favorite since most players aren't so ******ed they call a shove on the flop with a backdoor draw, or hero a 150BB triple barrel with K high.

Wish my games had a little more rudeness and idiocy if that's the price of people giving away their stacks left and right.
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Old 10-16-2018, 12:47 AM   #22514
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
Winstar has a very soft player pool and low cost of living. The 1/2 is 200 cap but I think you'd still make more than most places especially factoring in COL. You'll have a hard time finding soft deep stacked 1/2 games.
Harrah's in New Orleans has 1/3 that allows you to match the biggest stack. Id rank that game in my top 3 softest in the Country.

Cost of living there is low also.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:05 AM   #22515
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Results for the last 3.5 months:

520 hours played up $19,300 for a winrate of just over 37/hr. About 100 of those hours were at 2/5 and the rest were at 1/3 $500 cap with optional straddle from anywhere.

Results were a lot sexier before my current 60 hour $1800 downswing (I was at around $46/hr) but I suppose some run bad/regression to the mean was inevitable.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:26 AM   #22516
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Badreg2017 View Post
Results for the last 3.5 months:

520 hours played up $19,300 for a winrate of just over 37/hr. About 100 of those hours were at 2/5 and the rest were at 1/3 $500 cap with optional straddle from anywhere.

Results were a lot sexier before my current 60 hour $1800 downswing (I was at around $46/hr) but I suppose some run bad/regression to the mean was inevitable.
Still pretty sexy though. You're crushing it.
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:27 PM   #22517
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelore View Post
Not being a hater but winstar was super depressing for me and I was there for fun one weekend with my wife and a friend. I was insulted a lot patrons; one of them wanted to start a fight because he thought I bluffed him, another called me anorexic because I'm skinny. Keep in mind I don't talk **** at the table. Other random snide comments too in PLO8. A few of the guys were very fun though and getting **** faced having a great time. I've never been insulted so directly than at winstar though. It smells like cigarettes and there isn't anything else for miles. It's an enormous mecca of slot machines with the poker room tucked way in the back. The games are stupid soft though.
I've gotten into it with Winstar patrons before but I don't think it's overly confrontational. You probably just got unlucky in that regard. I've found players in Vegas (from Cali) to be far more confrontational. The casino itself is very smoky and depressing but personally I rarely walk through the casino...you don't have to in order to get to the poker room but you do to go to the restaurants. The new poker room isn't smoky at all because it's next to a smoke free gaming plaza. That sucks for smokers because they have to walk really far to go smoke but it's good for everyone else.
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Old 10-27-2018, 07:52 PM   #22518
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Been planning to post my 2017/18 combined results as soon as I hit my 1000 table hrs goal, which happened last night. This isn't the end of poker in 2018 for me, but since I hit my goal early, I figured what the hell.

I play in a 1/3 300 cap buy in game at a local casino (Only steak that runs other than an occasional PLO). 95% + of these hours are from that game. I have made a few trips to Winstar/Vegas/LA over the past 2 years, and try to play a 500 cap NL game when on the road. (Wynn 1/3, Bellagio 2/5, Winstar 2/5, etc.) Those hrs are included in the sample, but minimal.

For background, I've been playing poker semi seriously since 2006, usually 300-1000 hrs/year of volume depending on my other obligations/job. I didn't do much study other than reading some of the popular books (Super System, Poker Mindset, etc.) before a few years ago, and just relied on intuition/natural ability for the most part. If I were to compare my style of play to regular posters, it's kind of like a weird combo of MikeStarr (unorthodox at times due to a primarily live background) and GG (as my player field has evolved, I've found myself adopting a nittier and nittier preflop range as I feel my postflop edge has decreased over the field). For almost a decade, my winrate hovered around $35-45/hr at this steak, but my player pool has gotten noticeably tougher over the past few years, so I'm not surprised that my winrate has decreased. I don't consider myself a crusher and am rarely the best player in any given room. I just try to pick my spots, feed on the fish weaker than me, and avoid the sharks. Also putting in more study time these days to try to stay ahead of the curve.


TL/DR: Fish still on a heater since 2006, but cooling down a bit.

Total 2017/18 Hours (so far): 1000.25

Total Profit: $26,873

Winrate: $26.87

https://i.imgur.com/RlqO9KO.jpg
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:00 PM   #22519
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by StacknLikeCordWood View Post
Been planning to post my 2017/18 combined results as soon as I hit my 1000 table hrs goal, which happened last night. This isn't the end of poker in 2018 for me, but since I hit my goal early, I figured what the hell.

I play in a 1/3 300 cap buy in game at a local casino (Only steak that runs other than an occasional PLO). 95% + of these hours are from that game. I have made a few trips to Winstar/Vegas/LA over the past 2 years, and try to play a 500 cap NL game when on the road. (Wynn 1/3, Bellagio 2/5, Winstar 2/5, etc.) Those hrs are included in the sample, but minimal.

For background, I've been playing poker semi seriously since 2006, usually 300-1000 hrs/year of volume depending on my other obligations/job. I didn't do much study other than reading some of the popular books (Super System, Poker Mindset, etc.) before a few years ago, and just relied on intuition/natural ability for the most part. If I were to compare my style of play to regular posters, it's kind of like a weird combo of MikeStarr (unorthodox at times due to a primarily live background) and GG (as my player field has evolved, I've found myself adopting a nittier and nittier preflop range as I feel my postflop edge has decreased over the field). For almost a decade, my winrate hovered around $35-45/hr at this steak, but my player pool has gotten noticeably tougher over the past few years, so I'm not surprised that my winrate has decreased. I don't consider myself a crusher and am rarely the best player in any given room. I just try to pick my spots, feed on the fish weaker than me, and avoid the sharks. Also putting in more study time these days to try to stay ahead of the curve.


TL/DR: Fish still on a heater since 2006, but cooling down a bit.

Total 2017/18 Hours (so far): 1000.25

Total Profit: $26,873

Winrate: $26.87

https://i.imgur.com/RlqO9KO.jpg
Great results! What do you use to track winnings?

For LLSNL community, on a side note, I have been thinking of building a mobile app which allows players to enter live hands and record sessions more accurately and for later analysis possibly integrating with Pio, Flopzilla etc. What do you guys think of this idea?
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:02 PM   #22520
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by StacknLikeCordWood View Post
Been planning to post my 2017/18 combined results as soon as I hit my 1000 table hrs goal, which happened last night. This isn't the end of poker in 2018 for me, but since I hit my goal early, I figured what the hell.



I play in a 1/3 300 cap buy in game at a local casino (Only steak that runs other than an occasional PLO). 95% + of these hours are from that game. I have made a few trips to Winstar/Vegas/LA over the past 2 years, and try to play a 500 cap NL game when on the road. (Wynn 1/3, Bellagio 2/5, Winstar 2/5, etc.) Those hrs are included in the sample, but minimal.



For background, I've been playing poker semi seriously since 2006, usually 300-1000 hrs/year of volume depending on my other obligations/job. I didn't do much study other than reading some of the popular books (Super System, Poker Mindset, etc.) before a few years ago, and just relied on intuition/natural ability for the most part. If I were to compare my style of play to regular posters, it's kind of like a weird combo of MikeStarr (unorthodox at times due to a primarily live background) and GG (as my player field has evolved, I've found myself adopting a nittier and nittier preflop range as I feel my postflop edge has decreased over the field). For almost a decade, my winrate hovered around $35-45/hr at this steak, but my player pool has gotten noticeably tougher over the past few years, so I'm not surprised that my winrate has decreased. I don't consider myself a crusher and am rarely the best player in any given room. I just try to pick my spots, feed on the fish weaker than me, and avoid the sharks. Also putting in more study time these days to try to stay ahead of the curve.





TL/DR: Fish still on a heater since 2006, but cooling down a bit.



Total 2017/18 Hours (so far): 1000.25



Total Profit: $26,873



Winrate: $26.87



https://i.imgur.com/RlqO9KO.jpg


Very impressive, nice hustle!

I’m curious as to what the rake in your game is?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:03 PM   #22521
StacknLikeCordWood
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by devnull2 View Post
Great results! What do you use to track winnings?

For LLSNL community, on a side note, I have been thinking of building a mobile app which allows players to enter live hands and record sessions more accurately and for later analysis possibly integrating with Pio, Flopzilla etc. What do you guys think of this idea?
I just use the notepad on my phone and then transfer the data to Excel on a weekly basis. I tried a couple tracker apps, but my familiarity with Excel (finance background) won out.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:05 PM   #22522
StacknLikeCordWood
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
Very impressive, nice hustle!

I’m curious as to what the rake in your game is?


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10% up to $5 + $1 for promos/BBJ
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Old 10-28-2018, 04:01 PM   #22523
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by devnull2 View Post
Great results! What do you use to track winnings?

For LLSNL community, on a side note, I have been thinking of building a mobile app which allows players to enter live hands and record sessions more accurately and for later analysis possibly integrating with Pio, Flopzilla etc. What do you guys think of this idea?
Please don't make the games harder for us...
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:00 AM   #22524
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Nice results over the first 1000 hours Stacky!

Ggogogo!G
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:27 AM   #22525
moondog
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OK, I know my data might be LOL not enough hours... but I've spent a year tracking my limited play and just want to put it out there.

History: struggled early, but learned to beat heads-up SNGs 2007-2008ish (solid sharkscope scores ) eventually regularly beating the $100 level (we all bumhunted though). Then switched to HU Cash on pokerstars.. some wild variance, but consistently made money up to 200NL. Started playing live cash around 2010, then exclusively live cash after Black Friday 2011.

Live cash history (some 1/2, mostly 2/5): single parent w kids 50/50, have always worked 9-5 FT job...from 2012-2016 played a LOT live but *never* tracked winnings/winrate. Probably at least 40 hours/month, sometimes 50-60. Often used poker cash for groceries, etc, to support my work/life roll.

2016-present: achieved some balance in my social life... started to date, have a girlfriend past 18 months, so my 50% of time without kids is not nearly as available for poker. Noticed that my financial life suffered... credit card bill going up, can't use poker cash to pay for things as not playing nearly as much. This sucks, but it made me realize that my 'win rate' was probably pretty damn good when I played regularly.

Nov 17-Oct 18: I love poker, and hope to use it as semi-retirement someday, or let it give me some flexibility if I decide to switch jobs, etc. Decided to diligently track my sessions (use Poker Ledger, very basic but easy to use, reliable so far).

This data includes all live cash play. So, only averaging about 10 hours/month, sadly. Of the 120 hours
- 77 at local casino throughout the year
- 34 in Vegas Nov 2017
- 4 hour home game ( + $400 1/2 session lol)
- 5 hours local card club

1/2 - 30 hours at $38/hour
2/5 - 82 hours at $35/hour
5/10 - 8 hours at $317/hour (lol some nice variance but should be noted that this is almost exclusively 2/5 tables that converted to 5/10, when I ran pretty well)

Mostly weekends days/evenings, but a few days of 9-5 at the casino 1/2. Note my Bellagio 2/5 win rate... my last night in Vegas was a Monday I'll never forget - won pot after pot for 6 hours.

Of course, this will be much more relevant when I get to 500 hours, 1000 hours... but just wanted to share. Thanks for reading..



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