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Old 09-25-2018, 10:06 AM   #22401
stlows
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

We are together for 4 years now, and she understands concept of poker (variance, ev, etc...) she has a bacchelor in maths and master in computer science (AI).

But yeah, I guess I cannot know until we try it...

It wouldnt be so hard finding another job in my domain if it clearly fails after some months and my couple would be in problems, I would quit poker for sure...
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:21 AM   #22402
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Maybe its not the good thread for this question, but are you guys in a relationship or have a family? I would want to try poker full time but we are not sure how it will affect our couple...

We thought the best would be if I work night time (8pm - 4 am) so we can still eat dinner together.

What are your toughts/opinions?

We are 24 yo. And I'm really sick of my 9 to 5 corporate job... I cant do it anymore... i asked to do 4 days a week ! Maybe as a transition if I go poker full time. I feel like if I dont try it, I will regret it when I'm older... my girlfriend supports me so that's good but I would love to hear how you handle your family time/poker schedule?

Redirect me to another thread if its not the place
I can totally understand you - I am married, no kids yet, cooperate job. I treat poker as my hobby and side job, my wife understands me, so i normally would play two weekday nights and Saturdays. I can put in roughly 60 hours monthly.

When you already have a good job, I don't think playing poker full time especially grinding 5-T or lower game is a good idea. You don't get paid much more but with way higher risk of you and your family (Assumed full time 5/T pro, annually income for $120K? with no benefits). I told my wife - I wouldn't consider to play poker full time unless I have a roll and approved to be a winning player for at least 25/50 game. (My conservative assumption - this game would give me roughly $250K annual income if I am good, but I don't see myself could make $250K from a regular job)
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:34 AM   #22403
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlows View Post
We are together for 4 years now, and she understands concept of poker (variance, ev, etc...) she has a bacchelor in maths and master in computer science (AI).

But yeah, I guess I cannot know until we try it...

It wouldnt be so hard finding another job in my domain if it clearly fails after some months and my couple would be in problems, I would quit poker for sure...
If your wife totally understands the variance/degen life and can support you then you could try it out for a while. My wife has a similar background and knows how to read a graph so I don't get any grief but she would be concerned about long term career prospects following a several month poker bender. Assuming you're good at poker the main concern is being out of the workforce for a long time, having a gap in your resume or CV that would require an explanation. Going sideways career-wise in your early to mid twenties can cost you long term.

If your job sucks and you do quit I highly recommend finding a well paying career you don't hate and have some interest in while you grind. Have multiple options.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:06 PM   #22404
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

RE: DT's playing time.

Here's my PokerJournal stats on my 1/3 NL session lengths. I've ignored all session lengths < 5 hours because I have < 10 sessions per time period at those.

session length in hours (number of sessions) $/hr

5-6 (71) $20.38
6-7 (172) $23.06
7-8 (30) $7.81
8-9 (24) $18.56
9-10 (77) $17.66
10-11 (68) $18.40
11-12 (40) $25.24
12+ (18) $32.21

Overall winrate $20.98/hr.

I'm pretty sure it's all just meaningless noise, noting that I almost always simply play to a set time (it's not as if I stick around in good games / leave bad games). And I certainly think I suck at deepstack (which one will typically be later in a session). And yet interestingly enough my winrates on my longest session lengths are the best. Still, I do notice I start getting a headache as my session length increases to the longest ones and I'm not feeling my best (and yet for some reason this isn't reflected in the winrate).

My longest session length is like 14 hours and I really felt it. Can't imagine how anyone can be doing anything remotely competently at 22 hours.

GcluelesssessionlengthnoobG
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:57 PM   #22405
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

There's a lot of noise in those numbers. For a horribly formatted table (because I just want to copy/paste):

Session Table Hours Win/Loss Table Hours BB / hr $ / hr stdv
0 - 0.9 hrs $ 1,074.00 14.8 49.4 $ 72.81 ±414.18
1 - 1.9 hrs $ -5,046.00 202.3 -12.3 $ -24.94 ±148.31
2 - 2.9 hrs $ -579.00 605.2 0.4 $ -0.96 ±115.10
3 - 3.9 hrs $ 9,975.37 893.6 6.0 $ 11.16 ±93.33
4 - 4.9 hrs $ 19,429.09 942.2 9.8 $ 20.62 ±75.64
5 - 5.9 hrs $ 8,250.00 949.8 4.3 $ 8.69 ±71.52
6 - 6.9 hrs $ 4,415.50 823.6 2.8 $ 5.36 ±56.94
7 - 7.9 hrs $ 5,733.00 645.9 4.5 $ 8.88 ±51.80
8 - 8.9 hrs $ -3,328.00 363.4 -4.7 $ -9.16 ±45.43
9 - 9.9 hrs $ 1,582.00 130.3 6.1 $ 12.14 ±30.16
10 - 10.9 hrs $ 1,282.00 112.3 5.7 $ 11.42 ±29.17
11 - 11.9 hrs $ -184.00 11.2 -8.2 $ -16.48
12 - 12.9 hrs $ -665.00 48.8 -6.8 $ -13.64 ±18.72
13 - 13.9 hrs $ -740.00 38.1 -5.0 $ -19.41 ±22.80
14 - 14.9 hrs $ 300.00 14.5 10.3 $ 20.69
16 - 16.9 hrs $ -285.00 16.0 -8.9 $ -17.81
17 - 17.9 hrs $ 410.00 34.0 6.0 $ 12.06 ±3.74
18 - 18.9 hrs $ -40.00 18.6 -1.1 $ -2.15


Not too many sessions above 11 hours, but they go negative there. Interestingly, really short sessions are negative, bad game and I leave maybe? While mid-length sessions have no determinable pattern. Really weird gap at 8-9 hours that's negative.

I usually jut play to a set time (give or take an orbit) and don't stick around super late chasing.

Most people have an extremely hard time concentrating for more than a couple of hours at a time, and even with breaks it's hard to push past 8 or so.
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Old 09-25-2018, 01:08 PM   #22406
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
Really weird gap at 8-9 hours that's negative.
I find my 7-8 hour results really weird too as they are so out of sorts with everything else, but still only 30 sample sizes so whatever I guess.

Gnewpokerstrat:neverplayexactly8hours,ldoG
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:33 PM   #22407
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

DT - seriously screw your game the PHUC down. As I have stated in your hh threads your hands all have serious issues. Do not try and be a hero and play marginal hands oop. Tighten up. Say to your self in close decisions pre "what would gg do here? would he fold"?
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:49 PM   #22408
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
DT - seriously screw your game the PHUC down. As I have stated in your hh threads your hands all have serious issues. Do not try and be a hero and play marginal hands oop. Tighten up. Say to your self in close decisions pre "what would gg do here? would he fold"?
Good point. When I'm on my A game, I often think of 2p2ers before each hand and how they'd react if I played a hand. That normally means I fold, of course.

If you read the PG&C post about the session, you'll see it was runbad combined with play bad. I'd say about 50/50. I lost a couple flips for stacks (e.g., AK/QQ, nfd+pair versus overpair), which hurt too.

I put in a short session last night to get back into the right mindset and true to form folded all but one hand in 3 hours. Ended losing $65 being blinded out but at least I got back to my routine.
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Old 09-25-2018, 05:46 PM   #22409
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by mdelore View Post
If your wife totally understands the variance/degen life and can support you then you could try it out for a while. My wife has a similar background and knows how to read a graph so I don't get any grief but she would be concerned about long term career prospects following a several month poker bender. Assuming you're good at poker the main concern is being out of the workforce for a long time, having a gap in your resume or CV that would require an explanation. Going sideways career-wise in your early to mid twenties can cost you long term.

If your job sucks and you do quit I highly recommend finding a well paying career you don't hate and have some interest in while you grind. Have multiple options.
Stlows, the bolded would be of huge concern coming off a stable job to play poker. Say you try for a year or two and decide to go back to work. Depending on your field your skills may have depreciated in value (e.g. computer science). Corporations are also going to be wondering about that gap. Whether you tell them or not about poker you're kind of screwed. If you don't tell them, you look like a flake who randomly quit his last job for no reason and they're going to think you'll do that too. And if you do tell them, there is a very high chance they think you have a gambling problem and are irresponsible. Even if they're impressed (say you managed to win 10BB/hr over the period but just decided full time poker wasn't for you) by your results, they're still going to be wondering "when is this kid going to get bored with this job and go back to poker?"

I had a "resume gap" of over a year playing online poker. I suspect this was a primary factor in my hundreds of rejections for corporate jobs, despite otherwise having a fantastic CV and letters of recommendation.

I'm not saying don't do it but think long and hard about the potential negative consequences if poker doesn't work out. And you need to be sure you're good enough to win sufficient money before quitting. I wouldn't quit without 1k+ hrs of 8BB/hr+ wins at whatever stake is your financial equivalent.

And as far as financial equivalency, because of the complete lack of benefits playing poker, higher taxes, and general uncertainty, you're going to need about 50% more income from poker to be equivalent to what you make at your job.

Good luck and hope you make the right decision for you and your wife's happiness.

And BTW I'm single. It's easier to play poker from 6PM to 4 AM when you don't have a family. If your wife works during the day you could end up having to play during the day which depending where you live could be mildly bad to very bad. Some places the games don't really get going until the evening.
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:26 PM   #22410
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm getting surgery in a week that is going to make it real hard to play poker for the next three months, so I guess my year is over. Enjoy a real early 2018 results graph of rungood:


Mostly 2/5 with some 2/5/10 and 5/10. 2/5 accounts for 138 of the hours and $15,150 of the winnings
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:31 PM   #22411
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
I'm getting surgery in a week that is going to make it real hard to play poker for the next three months, so I guess my year is over. Enjoy a real early 2018 results graph of rungood:


Mostly 2/5 with some 2/5/10 and 5/10. 2/5 accounts for 138 of the hours and $15,150 of the winnings
Nice job! Not bad for only 32 sessions/hope your surgery goes well...
Where do you play?
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:14 AM   #22412
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I play at Sugarhouse
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Old 09-26-2018, 11:22 AM   #22413
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
Stlows, the bolded would be of huge concern coming off a stable job to play poker. Say you try for a year or two and decide to go back to work. Depending on your field your skills may have depreciated in value (e.g. computer science). Corporations are also going to be wondering about that gap. Whether you tell them or not about poker you're kind of screwed. If you don't tell them, you look like a flake who randomly quit his last job for no reason and they're going to think you'll do that too. And if you do tell them, there is a very high chance they think you have a gambling problem and are irresponsible. Even if they're impressed (say you managed to win 10BB/hr over the period but just decided full time poker wasn't for you) by your results, they're still going to be wondering "when is this kid going to get bored with this job and go back to poker?"

I had a "resume gap" of over a year playing online poker. I suspect this was a primary factor in my hundreds of rejections for corporate jobs, despite otherwise having a fantastic CV and letters of recommendation.

I'm not saying don't do it but think long and hard about the potential negative consequences if poker doesn't work out. And you need to be sure you're good enough to win sufficient money before quitting. I wouldn't quit without 1k+ hrs of 8BB/hr+ wins at whatever stake is your financial equivalent.

And as far as financial equivalency, because of the complete lack of benefits playing poker, higher taxes, and general uncertainty, you're going to need about 50% more income from poker to be equivalent to what you make at your job.

Good luck and hope you make the right decision for you and your wife's happiness.

And BTW I'm single. It's easier to play poker from 6PM to 4 AM when you don't have a family. If your wife works during the day you could end up having to play during the day which depending where you live could be mildly bad to very bad. Some places the games don't really get going until the evening.


A gap in your resume being a problem is just not true. I've taken several sabbaticals and anytime I get back into the work force my stories only help in the interview process.

It may put off a small percentage of employers but those are typically the types of companies you don't want to work for anyways.

EDIT: Technically not a sabbatical as I never had the intention of going back to the same job.
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Old 09-26-2018, 11:22 AM   #22414
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
I play at Sugarhouse
Very nice, sounds like that game just got easier. Weekend warrior? We've probably played together before. Good luck with the surgery.
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Old 09-26-2018, 02:31 PM   #22415
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Very nice, sounds like that game just got easier. Weekend warrior? We've probably played together before. Good luck with the surgery.
I'm typically there on Friday nights, sometimes Saturday. I used to have Fridays off and would play Thursday night but I quit that job.
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Old 09-26-2018, 02:42 PM   #22416
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Thanks guys for your answers ! It's actually giving me more questions...

I guess it's normal to have questions.

What I'm sure about is that I'm bored at my job and I don't fit in the team (corporates type of people)...

So for sure I need a change, maybe I'll do poker beetween my 2 jobs to see how it works.
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:18 PM   #22417
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by thin_slicing View Post
A gap in your resume being a problem is just not true. I've taken several sabbaticals and anytime I get back into the work force my stories only help in the interview process.

It may put off a small percentage of employers but those are typically the types of companies you don't want to work for anyways.

EDIT: Technically not a sabbatical as I never had the intention of going back to the same job.
Guess it depends how long the "sabbatical" is and what you do with it. "I quit for two years to play low stakes poker" I really don't think most employers are going to find an impressive story, but I'm not an expert on hiring practices and could be wrong.
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Old 09-26-2018, 11:50 PM   #22418
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*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I can testify to the resume gap being a Problem. During my heavy poker days I made a decent living, better than any option available to me at the time.

Now I’m here with a 5 year gap on my resume I’m going to have to figure out how to massage that.

I’ve done done a few businesses and side hustle type of things but I’m not sure that’s enough.

By the time I graduate I’ll have been out of the workforce for almost a decade and it’s really tough to cover up 10 years.

I’ve thought of getting some ****ty part time job and heavily embellishing my work history to cover my tracks.


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Old 09-26-2018, 11:55 PM   #22419
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As thin slicing says, if your going to step out for awhile it’s best to keep one foot in the real world so you don’t have to just shrug and say “I played poker for x years”.

Doing some volunteer work or working on some project related to a career you like can all be helpful to get some references and fill in some of the gaps.

This is the one thing that I’d change if I had to do it all over again. I would tried to get involved in something a little more interesting and noble for the future


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Old 09-27-2018, 12:08 AM   #22420
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

why couldn't you tell them you've been a professional poker player?
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Old 09-27-2018, 12:14 AM   #22421
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why couldn't you tell them you've been a professional poker player?


I suppose you could.

I don’t know if this is different in upside down underland but I’ve often found that there is a bit of a stigma for playing poker for a living.

People tend to lump it into general gambling and unless you are dealing with an informed and sensible person they seem to want to peg you as a degenerate or somebody who is unstable.

At least this has been my experience


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Old 09-27-2018, 08:31 AM   #22422
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why couldn't you tell them you've been a professional poker player?
there is an unfortunate stigma there...people associate poker with gambling and gambling with dishonesty for some reason, tho i did get hired by an extremely well known company BECAUSE I played poker, but the job was very mathematical and technically oriented, so they had a hard time finding qualified candidates to begin with...turned into one of the hardest and most stressful jobs i ever had so I quit after 2 years to, uh, play poker
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Old 09-27-2018, 10:44 AM   #22423
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
Guess it depends how long the "sabbatical" is and what you do with it. "I quit for two years to play low stakes poker" I really don't think most employers are going to find an impressive story, but I'm not an expert on hiring practices and could be wrong.
I've been lucky enough to involve travel in my breaks.

Also how you sell the story makes a difference.


"I quit for two years to play low stakes poker" would be horrible to say in a job interview.

Employer: I see you haven't had a job in two years.

Me:My Dad had recently retired and I took a year off to travel the United States with him player poker at some of our stops to supplement my income.

Employer: Wow, that sounds interesting. So you consider yourself a professional poker player.

Me: I use the term "semi-professional" and I use that term pretty loosely. I did take it seriously though, I tracked all my sessions, I have a warm up and cool down I do in between each time I play. There is also some studying off the table that is involved, usually just one or two hands from the previous session or time that I played.

The travel wasn't all about poker though. My Dad's a big bike rider so we went on bike rides, went hiking, and spent a lot of time in nature.

It was just the break I needed to come back and fire on all cylinders.

Employer: Wow, you might be the most interesting person we have ever interviewed. You are hired right on the spot and we are going to double your salary and give you bonuses. You can also marry one of my daughters.

Me: Your daughters are not property dude, I don't want this job anymore you sexist pig!

Employer: AWWWW MAN

This is a true story
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Old 09-27-2018, 10:47 AM   #22424
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by de4df1sh View Post
As thin slicing says, if your going to step out for awhile it’s best to keep one foot in the real world so you don’t have to just shrug and say “I played poker for x years”.

Doing some volunteer work or working on some project related to a career you like can all be helpful to get some references and fill in some of the gaps.

This is the one thing that I’d change if I had to do it all over again. I would tried to get involved in something a little more interesting and noble for the future


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I'm actually in the middle of some time off from the work force but during that time I have become a part time analyst for Pro Football Focus. It doesn't pay much and is very part time (6-12 hours a week) but when I do decide to jump back into the workforce it is something I can put on my resume and is a new skill that I have learned.
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Old 09-27-2018, 10:52 AM   #22425
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If I quit my job to play poker, I'll still be programming as a hobby/side money cause I love that.

Video games in Unity 3D, apps, commercial websites, learn new languages/technologies etc.
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