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Old 08-08-2018, 12:12 PM   #22176
setintostraight
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by mdelore View Post
It's good money and no boss but it's for sure drudgery spending so many hours around degens. A legitimate career is 100x lower stress than life as a live pro. I love poker and do well but there's no way I could be a live pro.
90%+ of all people are degens, you spend time with them outside of the casino just as well, the only difference is that in a gambling environment you see all of their worst sides, while in the real world they mask it fairly well.
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Old 08-08-2018, 02:45 PM   #22177
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by setintostraight View Post
90%+ of all people are degens, you spend time with them outside of the casino just as well, the only difference is that in a gambling environment you see all of their worst sides, while in the real world they mask it fairly well.
Unless the dealer's hot or there's a hot girl at the table. Then they mask it instantly. But even then the whining about bad beats doesn't end. Nothing can stop that.

I remember during the WSOP I was playing at the Rio. One of the dealers sat down and played after his shift ended. He was drinking nonstop. Last hand he got sucked out on and he stood up and swore like fifteen times before storming out. I don't get how you can work there and be that unprofessional in the place you work but I guess since it's just a temporary job no one gives a ****.
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Old 08-08-2018, 02:59 PM   #22178
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by setintostraight View Post
90%+ of all people are degens, you spend time with them outside of the casino just as well, the only difference is that in a gambling environment you see all of their worst sides, while in the real world they mask it fairly well.
Bolded is a stretch but I do agree people can behave their worst in a poker room.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:44 PM   #22179
whatnow88
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Moving up in steaks

When is a good time to move up in stakes?

I started playing 1/2 for 20 hours a week a few weeks back. I currently have 89 hours logged and around 2.3k profit.

I'm probably just going to move up because it's not enough money for my effort.

I have a good job so bankroll isn't an issue at 2/5

What are your thoughts?

Last edited by whatnow88; 08-08-2018 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:57 PM   #22180
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Re: Moving up in steaks

Usually once I bag a $500+ profit, I move up to a nicer steak joint. Let us know the vicinity you live in and we can scope out some nice steak restaurants for you.

Oh you mean stakes?
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:58 PM   #22181
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Re: Moving up in steaks

Stakes: You can move up whenever you want, just don't be afraid to move down if you start losing.
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:17 PM   #22182
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Re: Moving up in steaks

if bankroll isn't an issue that's great , but be prepared to make adjustments if the situation calls for it which it most likely will
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:41 PM   #22183
bovadafiend
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Re: Moving up in steaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
When is a good time to move up in steaks?

I started playing 1/2 for 20 hours a week a few weeks back. I currently have 89 hours logged and around 2.3k profit.

I'm probably just going to move up because it's not enough money for my effort.

I have a good job so bankroll isn't an issue at 2/5

What are your thoughts?
If you have a good job and can replenish your bank/life roll easily just do it.

Somethings to think about: the quality of 2/5 games I've played (midwest especially) vary greatly depending on the hours you play where as 1/2 games are pretty much always soft. Can you play late night? weekends?

Get ready to swing 10-15 buyins (at least) either way. Seems like you have limited live poker experience so be aware of how these swings (both directions but esp downswings) effect your play, attitude and overall mindset/health. Live downswings are soul crushing, its a slow game so when your buried for the week/month/quarter it can seem like its never going to turn.


If 2-5 is the biggest game at the place you play be prepared for a wider range of skill levels. Even if its not the biggest game the regs will be better and more aggressive but if its the biggest game spread in your area you will have "the best" live poker players in your area which is basically never true at 1/2.

This is hopefully partially mitigated by the fact the the fish/whales have much deeper pockets.

If its a small player pool develop/apply opponent specific strategies quickly. Don't deviate to far from your "standard game" at first but adjust/exploit to people's tendencies as much as possible. This is obviously harder to accomplish quickly in larger player pools but still important.

Other than that, play well and run hot.

GL
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:58 PM   #22184
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Re: Moving up in steaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
When is a good time to move up in stakes?

I started playing 1/2 for 20 hours a week a few weeks back. I currently have 89 hours logged and around 2.3k profit.

I'm probably just going to move up because it's not enough money for my effort.

I have a good job so bankroll isn't an issue at 2/5

What are your thoughts?
~$26/h isn't worth your time? Just quit poker then, IMO, because you're likely running hot and won't sustain that.

If money is not an issue then try both games and play whichever one is more fun. If you're hoping to make more than $26/h then good luck because not a lot of people can do that long term.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:03 PM   #22185
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by SABR42 View Post
I have no idea how some of you play that many hours at $2/5. Even $5/10 is way too small for me and completely bores me. I'm far from rich but I moved my way up.

That said, I can see how crazy winrates are possible at $2/5. I played 1 session of $2/5 2 weeks ago when I passed by a relatively new casino and $2/5 was the biggest game.

There was a spot where I turned the nuts as the PFR on a board of K548 and two people got all in with me. A $500 stack who claimed to have 2 pair and an $800 stack who was drawing completely dead (he showed an ace so best he could have was AK or AA, he did not have a flush draw). You never see that at higher stakes.

I once saw somebody call a river shove and a call on 10 9 9 6 10 with 22

pot was already 1800 and the shove was only 400 more but still...
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:12 PM   #22186
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Cool Re: Moving up in steaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
When is a good time to move up in stakes?

I started playing 1/2 for 20 hours a week a few weeks back. I currently have 89 hours logged and around 2.3k profit.

I'm probably just going to move up because it's not enough money for my effort.

I have a good job so bankroll isn't an issue at 2/5

What are your thoughts?

play whatever stakes you feel comfortable playing, enjoy playing and can afford to play at, just don't make any decisions or assumptions about your future expectation based around playing profitably for 89 hours at 1/2

it's too short of a sample size to have proven anything about your ability to win at either 1/2 or higher

I personally find it most helpful not to think of my self as a player of a certain stake...it's not like one day I moved up to 2/5 or 5/10 and stayed there. I play where the game looks best

This year, I have played every stake from 1/2 to 5/10/20 and just yesterday I moved from a boring 2/5/10 to a noisy, gambly 2/3 because it looked more profitable

Spoiler:
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:57 PM   #22187
Chumbardo
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by feel wrath View Post
I once saw somebody call a river shove and a call on 10 9 9 6 10 with 22

pot was already 1800 and the shove was only 400 more but still...
Was this a drunk black dude at Maryland Live? Pretty sure I saw this hand lol
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:13 PM   #22188
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Chumbardo View Post
Was this a drunk black dude at Maryland Live? Pretty sure I saw this hand lol
it was pretty much 180 degrees around the world from MDL
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Old 08-09-2018, 01:44 AM   #22189
Badreg2017
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by stackz07 View Post
Is using a solver to increase your win rate relying on complicated maths at the table during the hand or more or less memorizing the hands you put through it?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I use a solver to get a general idea of what lines to take with different types of hands as opposed to say memorizing how to play AK on every conceivable texture. I don’t try to play GTO, but it has helped me identify certain things I could be doing differently as well as ways my opponents can be exploited. Pio has definitely led to me changing my cbet strategy for the better but I think it’s really difficult to apply my pio study in general, particularly since so many pots in my games are 3-4 ways.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:56 PM   #22190
whatnow88
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Re: Moving up in steaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by bovadafiend View Post
If you have a good job and can replenish your bank/life roll easily just do it.

Somethings to think about: the quality of 2/5 games I've played (midwest especially) vary greatly depending on the hours you play where as 1/2 games are pretty much always soft. Can you play late night? weekends?

Get ready to swing 10-15 buyins (at least) either way. Seems like you have limited live poker experience so be aware of how these swings (both directions but esp downswings) effect your play, attitude and overall mindset/health. Live downswings are soul crushing, its a slow game so when your buried for the week/month/quarter it can seem like its never going to turn.


If 2-5 is the biggest game at the place you play be prepared for a wider range of skill levels. Even if its not the biggest game the regs will be better and more aggressive but if its the biggest game spread in your area you will have "the best" live poker players in your area which is basically never true at 1/2.

This is hopefully partially mitigated by the fact the the fish/whales have much deeper pockets.

If its a small player pool develop/apply opponent specific strategies quickly. Don't deviate to far from your "standard game" at first but adjust/exploit to people's tendencies as much as possible. This is obviously harder to accomplish quickly in larger player pools but still important.

Other than that, play well and run hot.

GL
I can play 7am to 12 noon.
I have watched the 2/5 table every morning during the week and only 1 guy has been their consistently.
5/10 runs twice a week
Plo games play much bigger than 2/5

I don't see how I would lose 10 buyins at 1/2 or 2/5. Most my money is made value betting on the river and getting called light.
The possibility of losing 10 buyins is making me want to wait.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:02 PM   #22191
whatnow88
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Re: Moving up in steaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
~$26/h isn't worth your time? Just quit poker then, IMO, because you're likely running hot and won't sustain that.

If money is not an issue then try both games and play whichever one is more fun. If you're hoping to make more than $26/h then good luck because not a lot of people can do that long term.
Yeah I played online for play chips and have a much larger sample their. Tracking software helped me the most. My wife wouldn't let me play live until I beat play chips. I learned a lot about bad players and how to exploit them.

Is the reason people can't do it long term based on their location or skill level?

Why is it that most people can't achieve 8 to 10 BB per hour?
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:30 PM   #22192
stackz07
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Re: Moving up in steaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
I can play 7am to 12 noon.
I have watched the 2/5 table every morning during the week and only 1 guy has been their consistently.
5/10 runs twice a week
Plo games play much bigger than 2/5

I don't see how I would lose 10 buyins at 1/2 or 2/5. Most my money is made value betting on the river and getting called light.
The possibility of losing 10 buyins is making me want to wait.
The higher up you go the less you'll get called light
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:38 PM   #22193
c0rnBr34d
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Re: Moving up in steaks

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Originally Posted by stackz07 View Post
The higher up you go the less you'll get called light
Disagree. From 1/2 to 1/3 to 2/5 I've gotten called lighter at each level on average. I've also gotten raised lighter but that's a different conversation. The exception I'll make is pre-flop. The things people call with pre in 1/2 are classic.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:59 PM   #22194
whatnow88
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What's a decent amount of hours to know your probably a winning player?

How can if figure this out faster?
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:11 PM   #22195
c0rnBr34d
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
What's a decent amount of hours to know your probably a winning player?

How can if figure this out faster?
There's a standard deviation formula on here somewhere you can search for that will give you a plus / minus range and a 90% confidence.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:50 PM   #22196
whatnow88
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d View Post
There's a standard deviation formula on here somewhere you can search for that will give you a plus / minus range and a 90% confidence.
I found it but it's to much work compared to how important it is to me. I will just get a larger sample In the coming months.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:03 PM   #22197
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
What's a decent amount of hours to know your probably a winning player?

How can if figure this out faster?
I would think 500 hours gets you close to knowing 'probably a winning player' and I'll guess that 1000 would get you to within +/- 4bb/hr of your 'true' win rate, albeit a) there's a huge amount of nittery itt about true wr and b) imo games and villains change really fast so you'll never get a 'true' win rate in live poker because the villains and game styles are constantly evolving

I haven't played play money poker online for many years but I did lol at the idea that 'beating' play money stakes is an indicator for beating real money stakes
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:26 PM   #22198
whatnow88
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by feel wrath View Post
I would think 500 hours gets you close to knowing 'probably a winning player' and I'll guess that 1000 would get you to within +/- 4bb/hr of your 'true' win rate, albeit a) there's a huge amount of nittery itt about true wr and b) imo games and villains change really fast so you'll never get a 'true' win rate in live poker because the villains and game styles are constantly evolving

I haven't played play money poker online for many years but I did lol at the idea that 'beating' play money stakes is an indicator for beating real money stakes
It's not an indicator for beating live but it has fixed tons of my leaks. All of which I wouldn't have know about without a tracking software.

500 hours seems decent
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:30 PM   #22199
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You don’t think you can have some indication that you are a winning player before 1000 hours played? Like I have a very small sample size but I can tell from the games just the fact that I don’t limp, open reasonable ranges and actually 3bet a range wider than KK+ I would bet money I’m already at least a slightly winning player.

Op I say go for it and take some shots if 10,000 is not a big deal but be willing to lose it
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:51 PM   #22200
Shai Hulud
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
What's a decent amount of hours to know your probably a winning player?

How can if figure this out faster?
If you have an absurdly high (20+BB/hr) winrate after 250 hrs you're probably winning.

If you have a very high (15+BB/hr) winrate after 500 hrs you're probably winning.

Once you get to 1000 hrs you know within a few BB/hr usually.

At 250 hrs you could be off by 10+ BB/hr
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