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Old 08-05-2018, 04:52 AM   #22101
Shai Hulud
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
If the economy is so great why are so many millennials living with their parents well into their 20s, getting married and having kids later than in any past generation? If you graduated from college and had the option of playing poker for a living or working at Subway for the next two years what would you choose?
Yep.

If you ask Mike I'm sure it's because millennials are lazy ****s. I tried for almost a decade to get a decent job and my credentials are outstanding. But all there was was graduate school. And even the good math grad schools place maybe half their students max in tenure track positions (typically after 4 to 8 years of postdoctoral research). I aborted that plan. Passed some actuarial exams. Couldn't even get an interview. Went back to school and completed a computer science degree. I got one real interview for a decent position and it fell through. The other 200+ applications I made were for entry level tech support crap for which I was way overqualified and yet I still received no job offers.

Not a booming economy in my experience or that of any other young person I know. I don't particularly care what official US unemployment and underemployment rates are. Their methodology is jacked. If you haven't applied for a job in the past 12 months you're not unemployed, you're just a "discouraged worker".

So technically I'm probably not even considered unemployed.

According to this Forbes article the main reason the unemployment rate has dropped is because of people leaving the work force. Only about 63% of working age people are actually working. And it is worse for millennials. I know so many brilliant people in their late 20s to early 30s still living at home and working as baristas or waiters despite having a college education and superb grades.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikshe...e-working-did/

Without poker I would be living with my parents forever, super grateful if I ever landed a Tier 1 tech support job paying 15 bucks an hour.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:30 AM   #22102
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Don't forget about the huge elephant...that nobody is talking about....PENSIONS. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...vYkCSV&ampcf=1
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:00 AM   #22103
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More evidence to the contrary
"Recent college grads now more likely to have good jobs, opportunity"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...4-column.html#

Also, every major police dept in the Country is dangerously understaffed. There are plenty of jobs out there. Maybe not in a specialized field such as whatever a math grad school graduate seeks. I dont even know what that is but its pretty easy to realize that there are much better degrees to go after with much better job growth potential than a masters degree in math.

Last edited by MikeStarr; 08-05-2018 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:24 AM   #22104
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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
Yep.

If you ask Mike I'm sure it's because millennials are lazy ****s. I tried for almost a decade to get a decent job and my credentials are outstanding. But all there was was graduate school. And even the good math grad schools place maybe half their students max in tenure track positions (typically after 4 to 8 years of postdoctoral research). I aborted that plan. Passed some actuarial exams. Couldn't even get an interview. Went back to school and completed a computer science degree. I got one real interview for a decent position and it fell through. The other 200+ applications I made were for entry level tech support crap for which I was way overqualified and yet I still received no job offers.

Not a booming economy in my experience or that of any other young person I know. I don't particularly care what official US unemployment and underemployment rates are. Their methodology is jacked. If you haven't applied for a job in the past 12 months you're not unemployed, you're just a "discouraged worker".

So technically I'm probably not even considered unemployed.

According to this Forbes article the main reason the unemployment rate has dropped is because of people leaving the work force. Only about 63% of working age people are actually working. And it is worse for millennials. I know so many brilliant people in their late 20s to early 30s still living at home and working as baristas or waiters despite having a college education and superb grades.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikshe...e-working-did/

Without poker I would be living with my parents forever, super grateful if I ever landed a Tier 1 tech support job paying 15 bucks an hour.


so you want to start at the top when Everyone else starts at the bottom and earns their way up the ladder
those other applicants most likely had internships and part time jobs on their resume, not just an entitlement attitude.
this is not an attack on you just stating facts
my niece couldn't find a job and wanted to teach high school math
she took a 3 month internship and after getting her foot in the door
landed her dream job teaching advanced math 3 miles from where she is building a house.
I know OBAMA told you its handed to you but in the real world you got to earn it.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:36 PM   #22105
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
If the economy is so great why are so many millennials living with their parents well into their 20s, getting married and having kids later than in any past generation? If you graduated from college and had the option of playing poker for a living or working at Subway for the next two years what would you choose?
My take is cuz they are lazy and self entitled. I have a kid thats 21 will b graduating from college this year and already has about a mirrion job offers for her field when she graduates - all are well payed positions.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:30 PM   #22106
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If the economy is so great why are so many millennials living with their parents well into their 20s, getting married and having kids later than in any past generation?
Imho, the millennium offers information at one’s fingertips, getting lunch without getting out of your home or car, and not waiting in-line for coffee among other things. A millennial can easily fall into a trap that a career(s) path is the same. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

Companies have diversity incentives in hiring. There are loads of accounting/finance positions across all sectors in the economy. Sometimes you may have to begin with a temp agency, but that could lead to being hired permanently by the client. There are also shortages in the health/medical sector.

When I was a kid, we dreamed of athlete and rock star $. Today there are also YouTube stars and Instagram models. Few of us fall into those categories (income), a reality one learns with time. Earning $100k year takes time, effort, dedication, and usually some risk-taking. Totally the opposite of getting a morning coffee.

GL!
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:16 PM   #22107
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Well, this thread took a dark turn.

Could go all econ degree on some people here, but would rather not, since it might start a flame war and derail the thread further.

Shai, I would B, but count the cost of driving per mile and subtract that from your session winnings. Obviously you could go full opportunity cost mode, but the truth is, if you're sacrificing a Friday weekend for poker, you probably don't have much going on, so it wasn't worth much in monetary terms anyway.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:56 PM   #22108
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I'm not sure what this means. The economy is booming. The unemployment rate is at a 49 year low. The stock market is at all time highs. Taxes are at historical lows...ect.
lol did you read this off a box of Cheerios
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:58 PM   #22109
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lol did you read this off a box of Cheerios
That doesnt even make any sense. It might be the worst insult ever...if thats what it was supposed to be. I cant tell...cuz its so dumb.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:20 PM   #22110
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ok, so I mostly started this. My bad.
But I'll also end it.

Let's bring this back to the topics of the thread.
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:31 AM   #22111
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More posts deleted. This is well off topic and mostly just a dick waving contest at this point. Continued discussion of this will result in infractions or temp bans.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:23 PM   #22112
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apparently johnnyvibes said he wins at 15 bb/hr at $5/10. that sounds pretty unreasonable. anyone here have significant sample at $5/10? i have <200 hours at $5/10.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:28 PM   #22113
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katman View Post
Don't forget about the huge elephant...that nobody is talking about....PENSIONS. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...vYkCSV&ampcf=1
A lot of people in my business are talking about it FWIW. It's a real issue that needs to be factored into any retiree's planning process.

Though the writer's presumed solution is to stock up on precious metals to which I offer a hearty LOL
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:39 PM   #22114
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by samo View Post
Imho, the millennium offers information at one’s fingertips, getting lunch without getting out of your home or car, and not waiting in-line for coffee among other things. A millennial can easily fall into a trap that a career(s) path is the same. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

Companies have diversity incentives in hiring. There are loads of accounting/finance positions across all sectors in the economy. Sometimes you may have to begin with a temp agency, but that could lead to being hired permanently by the client. There are also shortages in the health/medical sector.

When I was a kid, we dreamed of athlete and rock star $. Today there are also YouTube stars and Instagram models. Few of us fall into those categories (income), a reality one learns with time. Earning $100k year takes time, effort, dedication, and usually some risk-taking. Totally the opposite of getting a morning coffee.

GL!
My opinion and I could be completely incorrect: there have often been difficulties breaking into the job market and being a contributor to the economy. I know there certainly was amongst my friends and I in the early/mid 90's, there was to some extent in the early 2000s and there unquestionably was in post 2008.

However, this is the first generation with the ability to complain about it ubiquitously via social media. So there is a sort of reinforcement/confirmation bias in play here.

I also believe there are more students with worthless degrees from suspect institutions that aren't nearly as valuable as the students expected.

I have seen some statistics that at least tangentially support my thesis but I can't put my finger on them ATM
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:43 PM   #22115
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Originally Posted by jc315 View Post
apparently johnnyvibes said he wins at 15 bb/hr at $5/10. that sounds pretty unreasonable. anyone here have significant sample at $5/10? i have <200 hours at $5/10.
I am not a 5/10 player either, but still common sense and my instincts tells me that this seems running over reasonable expectation over a good samplesize that he have played.

Dont get me wrong, i love his vlogs+ i think he is a strong player based on what ive seen from him in his vlogs, but 15 BB hour doesent seems sustainable over a big samplesize or longterm in 5/10 unless youre running hot. Pretty sure his 5/10 results hides a solid heater over a big sample in there.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:44 PM   #22116
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Originally Posted by jc315 View Post
apparently johnnyvibes said he wins at 15 bb/hr at $5/10. that sounds pretty unreasonable. anyone here have significant sample at $5/10? i have <200 hours at $5/10.
There's no way. It's 5/10. Maybe San Diego was different but pretty sure the best 5/10 player in Vegas is nowhere close to 15 bb/hr. I have friend who played 5/10 Bellagio for a living for years. He's a very good player and he thinks 10 bb/hr is crushing and also that anything about 5 bb/hr is good.
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:07 PM   #22117
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I have a pal who is a 5/10 player in lv and he is a highly skilled perfessional with a big bag o tricks. He plays mostly games that are deep and has a very nice sample size. He wins at exactly 11 bigs per hr over this sample.
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:47 PM   #22118
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yeah 15 bb/hr at almost any stakes just seems ridiculous. either running insanely hot in a relatively small sample or something.

i mightve misunderstood what he said - maybe he meant he wins at $150/hr with a mix of $5/10 and $10/20 but from what i can tell he plays mostly $5/10 (vlogs are all $5/10 and he also said "my regular $5/10 game has died and so i have to switch to PLO or find other games).

i didnt watch the full vlog but it seems like hes offering coaching for $150/hr based on this information? can anyone correct me if im off? not that i would want coaching from him but it just seems a bit out there to advertise a 15bb/hr winrate to justify coaching price.
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:52 PM   #22119
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I watched the vlog and understood it exactly same way.

Personally i would never pay $150 pr hour for coaching these days to anybody, unless it is Garrett Adelstein or some other world class livecrusher/legend who decides to be available for coaching smaller stakes players.

That being said, Vibes is of course free to offer his services for the price he wants, i am sure many players are gonna hop onto it just because of his name and being fan of his vlogs.

Edit: regarding coaching i could see myself pay a solid hourly if some of the legends on this forum like SABR or Squid somehow would be interested in coaching me, but still its very few that i would pay $150+ pr hour for coaching in todays poker climate.

Last edited by Petrucci; 08-06-2018 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:57 PM   #22120
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when you say you understood it the exact same way, do you mean that he is saying he is winning at $150/hr in a mix of $5/10 + $10/20? it seems like he plays way more more $5/10 though and very little $10/20 (obviously just based off his vlogs which isnt much).

and yeah, definitely cannot blame someone for marketing themselves (vogs) and trying to make some money. im sure hell get plenty of rec players who have some decent money/jobs.

i think there is some value in paying for coaching ($100-150/hr) if the coach/player is a crusher in your local rooms at higher stakes. play style/exploits are more valuable if they are proven to crush at the same player pool you are at IMO. but even so .... i probably would never do it as well.
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Old 08-06-2018, 04:06 PM   #22121
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I understood it the way that the 15 BB hour winrate was from strictly the sample he have tracked in 5/10 games. Wich i think have to be influenced by a big heater, even playing in deeper stacked juicy games. Basically i dont believe that kind of winrate is sustainable over a very large samplesize at those stakes.
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Old 08-06-2018, 04:33 PM   #22122
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Jesus. Have been thinking about getting back into poker full time and the last few pages of this thread have been downright depressing. Is it really that hard to make a decent hourly at the low levels? I used to crush all over (vegas, asia, bit of europe) for about 10 years and quit in 2010/2011 due to business picking up.
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Old 08-06-2018, 04:38 PM   #22123
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A lot of people in my business are talking about it FWIW. It's a real issue that needs to be factored into any retiree's planning process.
I only bring this up because, when I go to Parx on any weekday morning, the 1-2, 1-3 and even the 2-5 games are made up of mostly older men, and I would assume that a good portion of them are receiving a pension. They can lose every month, but a check will be in their mailbox on the 1st. If and when this thing collapses, or changes (pensions gets cut, or everything becomes a 401k) the poker economy loses a ton of players....new and old.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:03 PM   #22124
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Jesus. Have been thinking about getting back into poker full time and the last few pages of this thread have been downright depressing. Is it really that hard to make a decent hourly at the low levels? I used to crush all over (vegas, asia, bit of europe) for about 10 years and quit in 2010/2011 due to business picking up.
If you haven't played for seven or eight years, yes it gonna be hard and take some work to crush again even at low stakes. Black Friday alone made the games harder. Recently training sites like Upswing are turning a lot of fish into break even or slightly winning players which is no doubt a disaster.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:23 PM   #22125
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Jesus. Have been thinking about getting back into poker full time and the last few pages of this thread have been downright depressing. Is it really that hard to make a decent hourly at the low levels? I used to crush all over (vegas, asia, bit of europe) for about 10 years and quit in 2010/2011 due to business picking up.
People dont shovel chips at you anymore. You have to take them. You have to trick them. You wont be able to get 3 nice sized streets of value out of TP hardly ever. Playing TAG ABC will still win but not at a large win rate like it used to.
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