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Old 04-04-2018, 08:20 AM   #21326
samo
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
Back to winrate stuff.....

So if I win 12BB/hr at 1/2 150BB cap what should I expect at 2/5 200BB cap? My guess... 8ish BB/hr?

And how large should my roll be to move up? I'm thinking 20k minimum preferably 25k.
Congrats on the 12 bbs/hr. If that sample is large enough and your $2/$5 NL player pool is favorable, I would transition over using your current roll. As others have said, nothing wrong with dropping back, even just to tighten loose screws.

Depends on the sample size and individual player experience, but I don’t think there is always an hourly correlation when moving up in stakes. Playing with better opponents provides the opportunity of continued learning and developing your game. Personally, my hourly (bbs/hr) increased over a larger sample than $1/$2 NL.

GL!
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:32 AM   #21327
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yah seeing the word expect makes me cringe.

Give it a shot, but don’t expect anything.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:55 AM   #21328
LarryGrill
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Spirit123,

You sound like you are 25 years old and just realized that life is a grind. News flash whatever you do for work (corporate, poker, retail) will suck sometimes. It is all what you make of what you have and how you look at things. There can be joy in any situation and there can be sorrow as well. You don’t need drugs or meditation to figure that out. You are not enlightened. Congrats on winning some money a few times and good luck in the future. To your comments about life is about “getting pussy” lol now I’m wondering if you are more like 16 years old.
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:45 AM   #21329
niceguy22
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Results @1/2:

1294 hrs
Profit: $31,850
$/hr : $24.61

My last 1015 hours (cherry picking from best spot) I'm at $29/hr. Casinos here are about to combine poker rooms so that the player pool isnt as sparse, which should be awesome. Looking forward to jumping into the 2/5 games that should start running more regularly.
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:00 AM   #21330
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22 View Post
Results @1/2:

1294 hrs
Profit: $31,850
$/hr : $24.61

My last 1015 hours (cherry picking from best spot) I'm at $29/hr. Casinos here are about to combine poker rooms so that the player pool isnt as sparse, which should be awesome. Looking forward to jumping into the 2/5 games that should start running more regularly.
nice stuff man. you are definitely thinking about the game in the right way so I am sure you will do just fine with the transition to 2/5. keep crushing
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:33 PM   #21331
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22 View Post
Results @1/2:

1294 hrs
Profit: $31,850
$/hr : $24.61

My last 1015 hours (cherry picking from best spot) I'm at $29/hr. Casinos here are about to combine poker rooms so that the player pool isnt as sparse, which should be awesome. Looking forward to jumping into the 2/5 games that should start running more regularly.
Nice dude! Keep up the great work. Really happy for your success.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:35 PM   #21332
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by LarryGrill View Post
Spirit123,

You sound like you are 25 years old and just realized that life is a grind. News flash whatever you do for work (corporate, poker, retail) will suck sometimes. It is all what you make of what you have and how you look at things. There can be joy in any situation and there can be sorrow as well. You don’t need drugs or meditation to figure that out. You are not enlightened. Congrats on winning some money a few times and good luck in the future. To your comments about life is about “getting pussy” lol now I’m wondering if you are more like 16 years old.
Thanks for the reminder!

I'm a bit older than you think. And I'm as far from enlightened as a human can be.

I guess I've been lucky because I grind for short bits, then relax for long stretches at a time. It's just the way I like to live. Grinding for years would make my head explode.

Just gotta keep that win rate up and live frugally so there's no need to grind as much.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:54 PM   #21333
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Now that March is in the books ...

Jan: -$1,560 over 102.5 hours
Feb: -$1,445 over 38.7 hours
Mar: +$1611.25 over 59.3 hours

That's including all the ******ed $1/2 PLO in my HG. Funny what a couple of $1000 pots going a particular way does. Ho-ray for variance turning around?
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:17 PM   #21334
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit123 View Post
It's all up to you Shai. Several times, I've started out with 5-6k (cash advances) rolls playing 3/5 and have built it up relatively smoothly each time.

There's no perfect bankroll rule. It's just what you are comfortable with. Nobody can predict how well/bad you will run.

At 3/5 you're just going to run into more good thinking players who know how to exploit weaknesses and create profitable situations for themselves in position. The fishy ones are still very fishy. They just have more money to give away and sometimes, they do it faster.

I say, Go for it! When the lineup looks good, just take your cash and plop it down and trust in your skill and instinct. Play tight.

What's wrong with switching between the two games? Moving up doesn't mean you have to stay there for good...you can pick and choose. You're already playing 1/2 so what's with not wanting to play it once you start playing some 3/5? It can be more fluid than you think.
Thanks for the input. As far as switching back and forth I guess I feel like 1/2 and 2/5 are pretty different games and that I'm better off focusing on adjusting to 2/5 completely. Maybe this isn't the case. Where I live there are enough 2/5 games to play that full time so if my expectation in $/hr is higher at 2/5 (which it probably is but I can't say empirically), aside from bankroll considerations I don't know why I would need to play both.

I tried 5/T one night. Way underrolled but games looked good. Ran super bad. I mean the biggest pot I lost I flopped the nut straight, my opponent 3 bet jams the turn and I snap call and he rivers a BDFD. Oh well. I just want to be as immune as possible to swings eating my bankroll before switching back to 2/5 let alone 5/T.

@johnnyBuz - I meant "what should I expect" as in mathematical expectation, not the general use of the word, which I guess was not clear. Trust me I know the results are highly highly random over short to medium periods.

I figured a lot of people ITT have made the jump from solidly beating 1/2 to 2/5 and was just wondering what the general drop in winrate looks like, fully aware some may hit their ceiling at 1/2.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:32 PM   #21335
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22 View Post
Results @1/2:

1294 hrs
Profit: $31,850
$/hr : $24.61

My last 1015 hours (cherry picking from best spot) I'm at $29/hr. Casinos here are about to combine poker rooms so that the player pool isnt as sparse, which should be awesome. Looking forward to jumping into the 2/5 games that should start running more regularly.
Well played.
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:35 AM   #21336
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22 View Post
Results @1/2:

1294 hrs
Profit: $31,850
$/hr : $24.61

My last 1015 hours (cherry picking from best spot) I'm at $29/hr. Casinos here are about to combine poker rooms so that the player pool isnt as sparse, which should be awesome. Looking forward to jumping into the 2/5 games that should start running more regularly.
Solid.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:09 AM   #21337
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Results at 3/5:

173 hours
+17661
$101.69/hour

3/16: 8:00 -1227
3/17: 13:11 +4898
3/18: 7:22 -426
3/20: 13:20 +1251
3/21: 3:25 +2445
3/22: 9:48 -715
3/23: 12:21 +192
3/24: 9:40 +1057
3/25: 9:07 +250
3/26: 3:28 +2241
3/27: 9:19 -2598
3/28: 13:38 +2893
3/30: 11:26 +348
3/31: 7:44 -788
4/2: 11:50 +1320
4/3: 8:41 +1350
4/4: 10:00 +739
4/5: 8:01 +1926
4/7: 4:13 +2505

Other than that, I'm -$370 in other games in ~3 hour total.

My instincts have been getting noticeably sharper during the last few sessions. Running hot helps too. Protecting stacks a bit better. Still working on some bet-sizing stuff and getting sloppy when I get bored or start playing too many hands.

Looking to start playing some 5/T probably within 2-3 weeks out in LA.

Last edited by spirit123; 04-07-2018 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:26 PM   #21338
Chumbardo
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit123 View Post
Results at 3/5:

173 hours
+17661
$101.69/hour

3/16: 8:00 -1227
3/17: 13:11 +4898
3/18: 7:22 -426
3/20: 13:20 +1251
3/21: 3:25 +2445
3/22: 9:48 -715
3/23: 12:21 +192
3/24: 9:40 +1057
3/25: 9:07 +250
3/26: 3:28 +2241
3/27: 9:19 -2598
3/28: 13:38 +2893
3/30: 11:26 +348
3/31: 7:44 -788
4/2: 11:50 +1320
4/3: 8:41 +1350
4/4: 10:00 +739
4/5: 8:01 +1926
4/7: 4:13 +2505

Other than that, I'm -$370 in other games in ~3 hour total.

My instincts have been getting noticeably sharper during the last few sessions. Running hot helps too. Protecting stacks a bit better. Still working on some bet-sizing stuff and getting sloppy when I get bored or start playing too many hands.

Looking to start playing some 5/T probably within 2-3 weeks out in LA.
Sick. What's the max buy-in and what casino is this?
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:33 PM   #21339
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Sick. What's the max buy-in and what casino is this?
Buyin is 300-1000 @ Talking Stick Casino in Scottsdale, AZ.

It's actually a spread limit game so the max bet/raise is 500. Not true no-limit, but plays similarly in most spots. The only exceptions are there's very little bluffing once the pot reaches 1500 or so.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:22 PM   #21340
zkagz
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Question: How do you handle promotion scores in regards to your poker winrate? You are constantly feeding the promotion prize pool out of your poker stack (which effects your statkeeping) so when you get a promotion prize should you add that to your current sessions total?
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:26 PM   #21341
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I add it in. I average a high hand score ($250) every 100 hours or so. Ive never been fortunate enough to be part of a bbj (since ive been record keeping) but would count that as well.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:32 PM   #21342
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Question: How do you handle promotion scores in regards to your poker winrate? You are constantly feeding the promotion prize pool out of your poker stack (which effects your statkeeping) so when you get a promotion prize should you add that to your current sessions total?
I just add it in. For me, it's all part of the big score. In the long run, it all evens out theoretically.

I think about it this way, On every hand I win, I'm giving the casino and its dealers an average of $5-6 in promotion drop, rake, and tips. If I'm playing lots of pots, this can come out to $40-$50 an hour. If I'm playing tighter, it's probably closer to $25-$30. If I somehow win $50 or $100 here or there with a random promotion (happens maybe once every 30-40 hours?), I add it to my stack and mostly forget about it. The wins are minuscule compared to the consistent dollars flowing out of my stack into the black boxes.

In the maybe 3000 hours I've played in casinos, I've never been part of a BBJ. I don't know how some people have been part of like four or five or six.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:50 PM   #21343
Angrist
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by zkagz View Post
Question: How do you handle promotion scores in regards to your poker winrate? You are constantly feeding the promotion prize pool out of your poker stack (which effects your statkeeping) so when you get a promotion prize should you add that to your current sessions total?
I add it in as a separate game "$0/0 Jackpot".

So it shows in my overall stats, but can be filtered out easily too.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:27 AM   #21344
LoudPacquiao
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Originally Posted by VipassanaMan View Post
Honestly, this is my biggest issue when I go through periods where I'm playing a lot. There's something about the environment where I tend to feel like I'm not making any sort of contribution to society (and I'm not), also seeing the negativity of many of the people around takes it's toll.

Some businesses have a real impact by providing value to customers, none of that happens in poker.

The mental aspect and what you describe above would really be the most difficult part for me.

It makes me laugh when people say this.

What value are you providing to society at your office job cranking out tickets? All you are doing is the same repetitive work for pennies while someone else is making millions or billions off your effort.

Pushing paper in an office isn’t benefiting society. Only the owner of the company.

Getting back on track... If a local
Casino has 1/2 with $5 bring in... will buying in for $200 seriously cripple me? I want to take a 10 BI shot with 2k

Last edited by LoudPacquiao; 04-08-2018 at 11:38 AM. Reason: To stay on track of thread
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Old 04-08-2018, 02:28 PM   #21345
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It makes me laugh when people say this.

What value are you providing to society at your office job cranking out tickets? All you are doing is the same repetitive work for pennies while someone else is making millions or billions off your effort.

Pushing paper in an office isn’t benefiting society. Only the owner of the company.

Getting back on track... If a local
Casino has 1/2 with $5 bring in... will buying in for $200 seriously cripple me? I want to take a 10 BI shot with 2k
Why laugh when people are expressing deep thoughts? Anybody who's played lots of poker, and has taken shots at make a living from it, has felt similar things RE: the negativity of the casino environment and not making a contribution, whether he likes to admit it or not. If he hasn't felt these things, there's something shallow about his perception of the world.

It's not just an either/or, poker or corporate world choice we as men have. We can seek other avenues to find purpose in our lives. I've resisted entering the corporate world my entire life. I worked at one startup for about 4 months, but that was the only real job I've had.

Whether we find purpose or not is not the issue. It's a natural human, especially male, tendency to want to understand life and our role as a tiny speck of dust. Otherwise, nihilism eats away at us.

The lack of purpose is a major reason there's a crisis among western men. We feel like we are just cogs in the big machine. Society wants to deaden our spirits and demands sheep-like conformity. We live in existential angst most of the time. Hence, the addiction to opioids, rising suicide rates, and materialism in the US.

Back on track: Nobody can tell you how you're going to do or how you're going to run. Are you good at poker? Have you won consistently in the past? How does your game play? Passive or aggressive? High or low variance? What are other people buying in for? Just superficially, I'd say $2000 in a $5 game is a tiny bankroll and is not really enough if you want to take the game seriously. But nobody is stropping you from taking a few shots. You don't need anybody's permission to take relatively small risks.

Last edited by spirit123; 04-08-2018 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 04-08-2018, 03:05 PM   #21346
Garick
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The $5 bring in really doesn't change the game much, except to force Vs to play a little better by not limping. it is still a 1/2 game, just one that you never see a "free" flop from the BB in.

Last edited by Garick; 04-08-2018 at 09:29 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:36 PM   #21347
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Once again we are going off the rails. Multiple posts deleted. Please re-read the terms of use for this thread and stop derailing it, all.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:38 PM   #21348
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Sorry Garick I posted that b4 I seen your post.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:39 PM   #21349
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I figured. I just deleted it.
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Old 04-09-2018, 12:55 AM   #21350
Chumbardo
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What's a 5 dollar bring-in? Can someone elaborate?
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