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Old 07-27-2012, 10:57 AM   #2076
dlognittam
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Re: Is 10k a big enough bankroll for 2/5 NL?

To play for a living? No.

To play recreationally? Yes, just mix in some hours at 1/2.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:58 AM   #2077
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Re: Is 10k a big enough bankroll for 2/5 NL?

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Originally Posted by dlognittam View Post
To play for a living? No.

To play recreationally? Yes, just mix in some hours at 1/2.
Why mix in hours at 1/2?
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:02 AM   #2078
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Re: Is 10k a big enough bankroll for 2/5 NL?

So you can manipulate your avg buyin and reduce variance to keep from being underrolled. But if you are a decent winner at 2/5 and the money is just supplemental income then you can prolly get away with a 10k roll. Just run good at the start.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #2079
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Re: Is 10k a big enough bankroll for 2/5 NL?

The biggest question here is, do you play for a living?
If yes, then probably not unless you run super hot at first

Also depends on your expenses. If your expenses are on the low side<$2k per month and you have a few months of living expenses set aside, and you are a good player, then prob yes.
I know that I do not play my best unless I have a nice cushion.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #2080
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Re: Is 10k a big enough bankroll for 2/5 NL?

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Originally Posted by jhawk7788 View Post
Sorry if this doesn't belong here. I realize it's not enough for online 2/4 or 3/6 NL but is it enough for live 2/5?
If you are playing for a living, no.

If you are playing recreationally, and will be adding a portion of your winnings to your bankroll, yes.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:40 AM   #2081
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Re: Is 10k a big enough bankroll for 2/5 NL?

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Originally Posted by jhawk7788 View Post
Sorry if this doesn't belong here. I realize it's not enough for online 2/4 or 3/6 NL but is it enough for live 2/5?
really depends on what your w/r is. Since you feel the need to ask this question and gave no further information you prolly are not beating 2/5 so you most likely need an infinite bank roll
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:14 PM   #2082
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm looking for advice on a starting BR for 1/2NL as a
part time/supplemental/recreational kind of thing.

tl;dr...
Background on myself:

I'm 31, with a good job and great benefits and have a small child, so playing as a profession just isn't feasible, at least not yet.

I've been playing poker since I was 12, and started playing Hold Em when I was 18 or 19, right before the Moneymaker boom happened.

I live in MD, and up to a few years ago AC was really my only option for live 1/2 in a casino.

I never quite found online play to fit my game, and mostly broke even playing so I tended to stay away from it.

I used to play home game SnG's and Cash games regularly. I had a 5-6 year stretch where I was playing at least twice a week and regularly beating the games and winning/cashing in the tournaments.

Eventually those games fell apart, and I was starting to settle down so my game has atrophied a bit.

I take the occasional trip to a casino and usually do well, but I'm only taking what I can afford to blow (1-2 buyins at 1/2) at the time.

We have a good old .25/.50 game with friends once a month or so, and I typically do well there also.

At the end of the day I know I have leaks and weaknesses in my game, but I feel very much "at home" at the poker table and want to make this a more regular reality.

So my futures plan involves saving a portion of my non essential monies (lunch, bar tabs, etc...) to turn in to a bankroll.

My plan is to start small, with 1 dedicated weekend (10-16 hours of play) a month for poker.

Then move to 2 weekends, and see how/where my progress takes me.

My thought is a starting BR of $3000-$5000 should be enough for this.
Is it?
What kind of goals should I set for a progression model?

I can't afford to make this a full time thing until I have a substantial amount of experience and a safety net, but that is the long term goal.

Thanks for the tips and sorry for the long-winded post!
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:53 PM   #2083
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yes. 3-5k is plenty to start with for live 1/2.

When I first got into poker (semi-seriously) I set aside 4k for 1/2 and with the help of lots of play, 2p2, podcasts, and other resources I am now overrolled for the 5/10 and 10/20 games which I play.
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:48 PM   #2084
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

My thoughts on grinding up from 1/2nl are pretty simple.

#1 you need enough of a bankroll to handle variance $4000-ish is fine
#2 you need to play on a regular basis: preferbly weekly, bimonthly would be the minimum
#3 you need to track your play, expenses, and keep a poker journal (enter key hands in your journal or you can speak notes into your smart-phone)
#4 your improvement comes AWAY from the table when you study and analyze your key hands that you entered in your poker journal and read/post on 2+2.
#5 read a poker book once every 3 months (technical/skill, psychology, emotional control, etc)


p.s. Regarding the poker journal, you can take notes or speak into your smart phone and the goal isn't to record every hand which is impossible, but rather to focus on KEY hands. I'll wait till after the hand or dealer change or set up or bathroom break to take notes. If I take them at the table, I just scoot back, take some quick notes, then return to the table. Now that i use my smart phone (speak into my smart phone and transcribe notes later at home), players usually think i'm on the phone.

Here is an example of the poker journal, quick thread only 11 posts, read through them
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/26...ge-you-638780/

Last edited by dgiharris; 07-27-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:14 PM   #2085
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post

I also have a list of rules, a dos and don'ts list, a preflight checklist before I start a session.
Would you mind sharing some of this? I respect your posts a lot and this has me curious.
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:51 AM   #2086
IveGotUrOuts
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

10% rake and $10 cap at 2/2, 9 plays a table, and I play 50nl online. Is this game beatable for me? (I guess 5 donks on every table on average). I know I should not ask for hourly, but just curious if you guys think I can make atleast $10 an hour, since in that case it becomes interesting for me.

Last edited by IveGotUrOuts; 07-29-2012 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:31 AM   #2087
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckduck53 View Post
I'm looking for advice on a starting BR for 1/2NL as a
part time/supplemental/recreational kind of thing.

tl;dr...
Background on myself:

I'm 31, with a good job and great benefits and have a small child, so playing as a profession just isn't feasible, at least not yet.

I've been playing poker since I was 12, and started playing Hold Em when I was 18 or 19, right before the Moneymaker boom happened.

I live in MD, and up to a few years ago AC was really my only option for live 1/2 in a casino.

I never quite found online play to fit my game, and mostly broke even playing so I tended to stay away from it.

I used to play home game SnG's and Cash games regularly. I had a 5-6 year stretch where I was playing at least twice a week and regularly beating the games and winning/cashing in the tournaments.

Eventually those games fell apart, and I was starting to settle down so my game has atrophied a bit.

I take the occasional trip to a casino and usually do well, but I'm only taking what I can afford to blow (1-2 buyins at 1/2) at the time.

We have a good old .25/.50 game with friends once a month or so, and I typically do well there also.

At the end of the day I know I have leaks and weaknesses in my game, but I feel very much "at home" at the poker table and want to make this a more regular reality.

So my futures plan involves saving a portion of my non essential monies (lunch, bar tabs, etc...) to turn in to a bankroll.

My plan is to start small, with 1 dedicated weekend (10-16 hours of play) a month for poker.

Then move to 2 weekends, and see how/where my progress takes me.

My thought is a starting BR of $3000-$5000 should be enough for this.
Is it?
What kind of goals should I set for a progression model?

I can't afford to make this a full time thing until I have a substantial amount of experience and a safety net, but that is the long term goal.

Thanks for the tips and sorry for the long-winded post!
$3k is way, way more than enough for semi-serious 1-2 play for someone that has a day job and thus doesn't have immediate life consequences to busting their poker roll. I was in a similar spot about 1.5 years ago - got a grown-up job again after 3 years as an online pro - and just gave myself $1k that I could use to play 1-3 with, knowing full well that a regular downswing could cause busto status but also knowing that I could just wait until I had another $1k to give to myself to reload with. Turns out I didn't have to (though that's besides the point), but IMO there's no real need for a pre-built roll that would be any greater than a single session stop-loss.

Just make sure that you don't reload from your life-roll into your poker-roll with anything you can't afford to lose, and of course keep track of wins/losses and work to refire your game, etc., but imo waiting for $3k is extremely on the nitty side; you could be making money sooner.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:25 AM   #2088
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post
My thoughts on grinding up from 1/2nl are pretty simple.

#1 you need enough of a bankroll to handle variance $4000-ish is fine
#2 you need to play on a regular basis: preferbly weekly, bimonthly would be the minimum
#3 you need to track your play, expenses, and keep a poker journal (enter key hands in your journal or you can speak notes into your smart-phone)
#4 your improvement comes AWAY from the table when you study and analyze your key hands that you entered in your poker journal and read/post on 2+2.
#5 read a poker book once every 3 months (technical/skill, psychology, emotional control, etc)


p.s. Regarding the poker journal, you can take notes or speak into your smart phone and the goal isn't to record every hand which is impossible, but rather to focus on KEY hands. I'll wait till after the hand or dealer change or set up or bathroom break to take notes. If I take them at the table, I just scoot back, take some quick notes, then return to the table. Now that i use my smart phone (speak into my smart phone and transcribe notes later at home), players usually think i'm on the phone.

Here is an example of the poker journal, quick thread only 11 posts, read through them
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/26...ge-you-638780/
I disagree with one and two. If you have say $200 to spare every week, you can just play with that once a week until you cash in a win. And build your bankroll from there.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:56 AM   #2089
Tim Brice
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Here is a link to my poker journal if anyone is interested - https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17.../#post34017033

I have to agree with dgiharris, it is helping my game already.
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Old 07-30-2012, 01:23 PM   #2090
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have kept a journal my entire poker "career". It has helped me tremendously to go from NL2 to NL5 to NL25 to NL25, and then from 1/2 to 2/5 and almost 5/10 now.

Keep a journal. It helps a ton.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-story-998922/
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:52 PM   #2091
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Someone who can answer my q?
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:56 PM   #2092
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Someone who can answer my q?
OK.

What is your w/r at 50nl?

How many hands is your sample size?
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:08 PM   #2093
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Your winrate at 50nl is irrelevant in a 2/2 10% cap live game.

How much live experience do you have? What's the min/max buyin to the game?

I would assume it's beatable but not for very much unless people sit deep.

10$/hr might be the ceiling in a game like that (assuming 200-400ish stacks usually). Rake will absolutely destroy you.
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:19 PM   #2094
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Your winrate at 50nl is irrelevant in a 2/2 10% cap live game.
this is simply not true. His w/r and sample size gives an indication as to how well he plays poker and how focused he is.
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:38 PM   #2095
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Hard to say, but I beat 50nl and have taken 100nl shots sometimes and coaching. That said, I have sometimes trouble handling the variance and getting in volume, therefore I am considering live poker since u just sit there and cant quit so easily. I have a bit of live experience, and know that the players over there are lolbad.

Min BI is 50, Max is 400. Some donks buy in 50, would say average 150BI, and gets deeper when evening gets late.
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:50 PM   #2096
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Most games that I have read in these forums are 10% up to $5 - 6 and ~100bb average stack. WR ceiling is thought to be around 10bb in these games.

You can make your own deductive reasoning with whatever structure.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:23 PM   #2097
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Here's how I built my roll:

I started playing a little over 2 years ago when I gave up boozing.

I bought Poker Journal for my iPhone to track sessions. I took $300 of my own money to play $1/3 here. (I make more than I spend at my job). I just played regularly and logged my sessions. Only once did I end my session below $0 bankroll. Two years later I'm up a little over $13K. This weekend I'm planning on opening up a new bank account and putting the money in there so my BR has its own account.

My winrate really sucked for the longest time. But it's really picked up since Feb. $1/2 and $1/3 should be beatable. But you'll make mistakes and your winrate won't be good until you can fix those leaks from learning & experience.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:35 PM   #2098
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by IveGotUrOuts View Post
Hard to say, but I beat 50nl and have taken 100nl shots sometimes and coaching. That said, I have sometimes trouble handling the variance and getting in volume, therefore I am considering live poker since u just sit there and cant quit so easily. I have a bit of live experience, and know that the players over there are lolbad.

Min BI is 50, Max is 400. Some donks buy in 50, would say average 150BI, and gets deeper when evening gets late.
so u don't use HM or Poker Tracker??

If you have trouble with variance and getting volume in online - then you are going to have issues with live play.

10% rake up to 10$ is going to be tough to beat..based on the info you provided I don't think that it is a good idea to play this game in hopes of winning serious $
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:38 PM   #2099
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this is simply not true. His w/r and sample size gives an indication as to how well he plays poker and how focused he is.
Winning 1bb at 50nl is basically the same as being a 3bb winner when transitioning to live.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:48 PM   #2100
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Winning 1bb at 50nl is basically the same as being a 3bb winner when transitioning to live.
I'm not sure exactly what your point is and i dont feel like getting into a debate about live and online poker but I will explain my thought process.

He claims to be an online player wondering if he can beat a live game with obscene rake.

I have played both a ton online and live so i understand both very well. If he is pounding 50nl online for 2.5+BB/100 (not bb) over a significant sample. I would say this dude has some game and could prolly take a shot with some adjustments.

If on the other hand he comes back with some weak #'s I would tell him that the 10% 10$ rake is too much.
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