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Old 02-12-2018, 04:57 AM   #20751
Pork Fri Rize
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If your local 2/5 games are filled with perceived wizards, then find somewhere else to play. (Although quite rare). My local games at least 70% of the players never played a hand online before Black Friday, across all age spans of these guys, it's very easy to tell listening to their comments and poor play fundamentally. Not looking to continue a live/online debate but some people seem to be forgetting that 2/5 games in a nutshell should be soft. As the very very good and absolute best have moved up in stakes usually unless bigger game selection is obsolete. There should never be a time where you feel you are playing in a "tough" 2/5 game unless you have no game selection luxury. Luckily I do, and will tupically not sit in a (9 handed) game with more than 2 other good players even if there is a giant whale there, there is no need for me to get in that game with more good players than mentioned.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:17 AM   #20752
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize View Post
If your local 2/5 games are filled with perceived wizards, then find somewhere else to play. (Although quite rare). My local games at least 70% of the players never played a hand online before Black Friday, across all age spans of these guys, it's very easy to tell listening to their comments and poor play fundamentally. Not looking to continue a live/online debate but some people seem to be forgetting that 2/5 games in a nutshell should be soft. As the very very good and absolute best have moved up in stakes usually unless bigger game selection is obsolete. There should never be a time where you feel you are playing in a "tough" 2/5 game unless you have no game selection luxury. Luckily I do, and will tupically not sit in a (9 handed) game with more than 2 other good players even if there is a giant whale there, there is no need for me to get in that game with more good players than mentioned.
HUGE leak. Are you that afraid of good players? I personally don't even care if the best player at the table is on my left as long as the whale's on my right. Sure they can put me in tough spots in position and deep but the regs aren't there to go to war with other regs they are there to try to stack the whale just like you are. Also knowing how to handle better players helps you become a better player.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:48 AM   #20753
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Why is having good game selection a huge leak? Perhaps I overstated my willingness to play with other good players but my point is that I become better from talking hands with a few guys in my room and on here. 5/10 in my area is pretty dead and the occasional bigger game 10/25 will break out which I'm not rolled for so I'm not concerned with improving to move up that big. I am content with my game and selection knowing that 2/5 is the juciest game in my area that I will be rolled for unless I move to somewhere else in the country which I'm not planning on anytime soon. I don't need to put my money in higher varirence spots against the hand full of good players at my level in hopes of "getting better" when I find conversation and forum much more valuable. Sure, I would play at the table with a whale and 3-4 other good regs depending on stack size of whale, but to think that is a better choice than playing in a typical game with moderately stacked fish (5-6) is far more +Eve and I don't see the argument there given the perdicaments of my local area
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:51 AM   #20754
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Some good points RiverRat.

Like yeah, in a shortsighted perspective it might hurt your winrate a little bit to put in hours in lineups with tougher opponents or several regs. But as pointed out, i also believe it will have positive impact on developing your game and your skillset. When you have a couple of other good winning players at the table you need to learn the game on a more complexe strategy level- because you simply need to take into account alot more stuff than just how to slaughter the fish. I am not saying you dont know this stuff porkfreerize, but its something to keep in mind for more inexperienced players. Sometimes the best way to learn, is to experience how its like to face off against better players.

Since ive started out i pretty much always have had at least 1 or 2 other good regs/winning players at my table, due to very limited game selection possibilities. That made me learn quicker on alot of parameters- because i was simply forced to adapt when i find myself with 2 other good regs at my table.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:07 AM   #20755
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ya my point was that since I have enough games to chose from, that I don't HAVE to. My usual table is 2-3 other good players, me, and the rest meh/fish which I find nothing wrong with to hinder my game given my explanation as far as bigger games go. It's not like I'm Never playing with and hands with other solid regs in a pot geesh.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:06 AM   #20756
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
Wondering what people's biggest downswings and breakeven stretches have been. I've got 165 (and several other ~140) hour breakeven stretches and a $5300 downswing at 2/5 (some 2/5/10). This is over 940 hours while running hot overall
longest ~BE stretch was 400 hours back when I was still playing 1/2 and shot-taking 2/5 (and failing lol)

I am currently experiencing my biggest downswing; -14.3k over the last 40 hours which is a mix of 2/5 and T/T. Hopefully it doesn't get too much worse than that lol. Worst previous downswing was 9k.

I have just under 2.2k hours
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:01 AM   #20757
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Ouch that's a lot of buyins if mostly 2/5. Hopefully it turns around for you soon. How far are you going to push it before you drop down to rebuild your roll?
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:27 AM   #20758
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Does anyone use the "friends list" on Poker Bankroll tracker? I wanted to test it out before asking my friends to download/use this app. Feel free to add me to give it a try "Mojojo16". PM me with your username so i can test this out.

Thanks
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:55 AM   #20759
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp View Post
longest ~BE stretch was 400 hours back when I was still playing 1/2 and shot-taking 2/5 (and failing lol)

I am currently experiencing my biggest downswing; -14.3k over the last 40 hours which is a mix of 2/5 and T/T. Hopefully it doesn't get too much worse than that lol. Worst previous downswing was 9k.

I have just under 2.2k hours
Fish on a 100k heater ldo
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:06 AM   #20760
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Originally Posted by NewClintEastwood View Post
Ouch that's a lot of buyins if mostly 2/5. Hopefully it turns around for you soon. How far are you going to push it before you drop down to rebuild your roll?
11.6k/14.3k is from T/T so not that many big blinds overall. Just spazzed off a few times for lots of $$ into the nuts and then have been running into a lot of coolers.

I am over-rolled + have a ft job, so no need to rebuild thankfully. Just gotta play better/grind it out. I am going to be more stringent about game selection though for sure and will be more likely to just play 2/5 over T/T if the T/T lineup isn't great.


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Fish on a 100k heater ldo
+1
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:51 AM   #20761
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This will probably jinx me but yesterday I broke my record for longest winning streak. 15 sessions in a row. During that time I won at $148.50/hr playing all 2/5

My previous best was 14 in a row at $93.50/hr.

Long live snowbirds!
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:58 AM   #20762
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Dunno about 15/12 being nitty. Pretty standard TAG game for online full ring. I open about 10 - 12% of hands from EP and anywhere from 45% to ATC on the button depending on who's behind. But even though those are my theoretical ranges I feel like in actuality I played way nittier due to being card dead pre and not abusing that image enough. A lot of my 2/5 sessions were mundane and I barely got into big pots. I remember being all excited about reading Ed Miller's advice to barrel the turn more to threaten stacks but rarely getting the opportunity to actually apply it.

I played 28 sessions total for a total of 125.5 hours. I guess with the average session length being not even 5 hours and the fact that I buy in for $600 and not $1k, results shouldn't be surprising.

By the way how the hell do you upload pictures on this site now? Gyazo and imgur don't seem to be working.
15/12 is certainly nitty in that if you're playing that tight you're probably VPIPing less than any person at any 2/5 table, and definitely calling less than any person at a 2/5 table. Doesn't necessarily mean it's nitty in that playing more hands would be optimal (I have no idea if that's the case) but people will probably note that you're very, very tight. They may not adjust though.

Last edited by MIB211; 02-12-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:15 PM   #20763
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
This will probably jinx me but yesterday I broke my record for longest winning streak. 15 sessions in a row. During that time I won at $148.50/hr playing all 2/5

My previous best was 14 in a row at $93.50/hr.

Long live snowbirds!
Not bad at all Mike! Wp. Longest I've seen was a rec player who had 16 straight :')
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:30 PM   #20764
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
This will probably jinx me but yesterday I broke my record for longest winning streak. 15 sessions in a row. During that time I won at $148.50/hr playing all 2/5

My previous best was 14 in a row at $93.50/hr.

Long live snowbirds!
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:48 PM   #20765
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
This will probably jinx me but yesterday I broke my record for longest winning streak. 15 sessions in a row. During that time I won at $148.50/hr playing all 2/5

My previous best was 14 in a row at $93.50/hr.

Long live snowbirds!
Wow that's incredible. Congrats
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:45 AM   #20766
LordRiverRat
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize View Post
Why is having good game selection a huge leak? Perhaps I overstated my willingness to play with other good players but my point is that I become better from talking hands with a few guys in my room and on here. 5/10 in my area is pretty dead and the occasional bigger game 10/25 will break out which I'm not rolled for so I'm not concerned with improving to move up that big. I am content with my game and selection knowing that 2/5 is the juciest game in my area that I will be rolled for unless I move to somewhere else in the country which I'm not planning on anytime soon. I don't need to put my money in higher varirence spots against the hand full of good players at my level in hopes of "getting better" when I find conversation and forum much more valuable. Sure, I would play at the table with a whale and 3-4 other good regs depending on stack size of whale, but to think that is a better choice than playing in a typical game with moderately stacked fish (5-6) is far more +Eve and I don't see the argument there given the perdicaments of my local area
Depends on what you define as fish. Problem is a lot of the typical fish although obviously bad aren't complete idiots. Some of them have probably played for years but never bothered to improve their game beyond the basic "don't play T4o then call down your stack with a pair of fours". They aren't gonna hand out their stack like candy like the whale does. The one whale also changes the entire table dynamics. People will play looser and make themselves more exploitable in order to try to get into spots vs the whale. If you know how to exploit everyone in such a situation...way more +EV than a table that's half typical fish.

Also regs don't bring high variance. Whales do. Like that time I was playing 1/3 at the Wynn and a single whale changed the table so much the typical open was $30 to $35 and getting called in multiple spots. You think the nit reg wearing the hoodie/shades/headphones who says five words per session is gonna bring variance? Hellz nah.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:52 AM   #20767
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah when you grind low stakes you become very accustomed to just playing with whales or people who just randomly spazz and dont have to put in a lot of effort.

That's a luxury you don't always get. Really crushing means being able to play weak fish (weak regs) that play semi-solid but will eventually make a big mistake in a bloated pot -- and that one pot will account for your entire WR for the day. It could take hours to find that spot, but it'll happen eventually. Or maybe they're overfolding flops in 3bet pots so you do that once an hour or whatnot. It's not about needing to stack them every hand.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:44 AM   #20768
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Not bad at all Mike! Wp. Longest I've seen was a rec player who had 16 straight :')
I know a guy who won 26 sessions in a row. It was all 1/3 and 1/2 I believe. He's also hit multiple bad beat jackpots.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:02 AM   #20769
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I know a guy who won 26 sessions in a row. It was all 1/3 and 1/2 I believe. He's also hit multiple bad beat jackpots.
Yeah that's crazy. Though in some 1/2 games, I can see it not being insanely difficult. Some people just run very, very good...
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:29 AM   #20770
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Some of that could also depend on whether or not the guy plays super long sessions and more importantly if he stays longer than he was planning when hes down so he can get unstuck because hes trying to protect his winning streak or conversely if he leaves early if hes winning to protect his win for the day.

Im not doing that crap. I just play whatever hours I planned to play that day. My sessions have been shortish during this streak because Ive been sick and I feel worse as the day goes on. The streak is at 16 now. My sessions have averaged 3 hrs 42 mins.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:42 AM   #20771
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15 wins in a row is pretty cool, congrats mike.

GG and I have a long standing avatar bet on who can first hit 20. Think I've clipped 12 a few times...and tbh its been a long time since Ive clipped 5.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:13 PM   #20772
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Had an amazing combo breaker yesterday, +2780 in a 2/5/10 game in like an hour after being stuck 700. Halfway out of my downswing!

Plus I just quit my job, so I may be able to do 60 hours this month to get to 1k hours live.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:04 PM   #20773
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Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
Or just play 1/3 with a full stack and auto top up which probably gives you a better hourly? You say rake at 1/3 is very hard to beat well rake at 2/5 with a short stack isn't much better.
Depending on the postflop skill of your opponents (mine aren't wizards by any means but most aren't completely ******ed either), and depending on whether a rake is taken on a pot that doesn't see a flop (no flop no rake in my room), there is some argument to be made for shortstacking and attempting to take down all pots preflop. I mean, if all you did is once an orbit raise 3 limps and take it down, you'd cruise to a 9 bb/hr winrate. Course, I'm guessing this opportunity won't arise once an orbit, but throw in the occasional limp/reraise (which can take down a relatively huge pot preflop) and it's perhaps not as farfetched as you think.

GrethinkingthebenefitstoashortstackingmethodG


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15 wins in a row is pretty cool, congrats mike.

GG and I have a long standing avatar bet on who can first hit 20. Think I've clipped 12 a few times...and tbh its been a long time since Ive clipped 5.
Can't remember the poster who actually ended up shipping that prop bet; I think Fun out of Calgary or something like that?

In 2012-2013 I went on a fun little 7 win 1 loss (-$12 over 12 hours, lol) 10 win 2 loss 15 win streak (32-3). Since then, I've had four 7 session win streaks and three 6 session winstreaks. 20 seems absolutely impossible to me (unless using a quitting method just to accomplish it).

GcluelesswinstreaknoobG
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:43 PM   #20774
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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Depending on the postflop skill of your opponents (mine aren't wizards by any means but most aren't completely ******ed either), and depending on whether a rake is taken on a pot that doesn't see a flop (no flop no rake in my room), there is some argument to be made for shortstacking and attempting to take down all pots preflop. I mean, if all you did is once an orbit raise 3 limps and take it down, you'd cruise to a 9 bb/hr winrate. Course, I'm guessing this opportunity won't arise once an orbit, but throw in the occasional limp/reraise (which can take down a relatively huge pot preflop) and it's perhaps not as farfetched as you think.

GrethinkingthebenefitstoashortstackingmethodG




Can't remember the poster who actually ended up shipping that prop bet; I think Fun out of Calgary or something like that?

In 2012-2013 I went on a fun little 7 win 1 loss (-$12 over 12 hours, lol) 10 win 2 loss 15 win streak (32-3). Since then, I've had four 7 session win streaks and three 6 session winstreaks. 20 seems absolutely impossible to me (unless using a quitting method just to accomplish it).

GcluelesswinstreaknoobG
17 and counting

68.25 hours
+$10212
$149.60/hr

I'm in shock to be honest. My record was 14 and Ive had two 13s but even then the amounts werent this big. My room raised the max buy in to 200BBs in the 2/5 games on Feb 1st and the games have been really good since then.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:49 PM   #20775
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Impressive Mike!

Gcheckintherungoodwhenyou'refinishedwithit?G
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