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Old 02-09-2018, 08:48 PM   #20726
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Knittle View Post
VPIP/PFR.

Considering starting to play Live on the side..

Would beating 10-25NL on WPN 9-max be close to the talent I'd face at 1/3 and 2/5?

My experience playing live is minimal, but I do know the game is about patience. Can find stretches of no playable spots for hours, but have to keep going.

If I played 1/3 to start, could I implement exploitative strategies similar to what I use for micros online?

What is a "Good/Solid" win rate per hour playing 1/3?


Thanks guys!
I don't know WPN, but generally if you can beat 25NL online, 2/5 live is easy once you adjust. You can generally be even more exploitative live than you can in the online micros.

General consensus is that over 5bb/hr is good, and over 10bb/hr is crushing.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:18 AM   #20727
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Dunno about 15/12 being nitty. Pretty standard TAG game for online full ring. I open about 10 - 12% of hands from EP and anywhere from 45% to ATC on the button depending on who's behind. But even though those are my theoretical ranges I feel like in actuality I played way nittier due to being card dead pre and not abusing that image enough. A lot of my 2/5 sessions were mundane and I barely got into big pots. I remember being all excited about reading Ed Miller's advice to barrel the turn more to threaten stacks but rarely getting the opportunity to actually apply it.

I played 28 sessions total for a total of 125.5 hours. I guess with the average session length being not even 5 hours and the fact that I buy in for $600 and not $1k, results shouldn't be surprising.

By the way how the hell do you upload pictures on this site now? Gyazo and imgur don't seem to be working.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:34 AM   #20728
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knittle View Post
VPIP/PFR.



Considering starting to play Live on the side..



Would beating 10-25NL on WPN 9-max be close to the talent I'd face at 1/3 and 2/5?



My experience playing live is minimal, but I do know the game is about patience. Can find stretches of no playable spots for hours, but have to keep going.



If I played 1/3 to start, could I implement exploitative strategies similar to what I use for micros online?



What is a "Good/Solid" win rate per hour playing 1/3?





Thanks guys!


If full ring is anything like 6 Max on wpn in terms of toughness you'll crush any live 1/3, 2/5 and probably 5/10
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:00 AM   #20729
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
I don't understand how people have these massive winning or losing sessions. I play like a 15/12 internet TAG with an I'd say average 3 bet frequency. Not really that nitty. I never limp unless it's the SB or there's been like four limpers already but even then I'd rather raise. In the last 750 ish hours I've never had a session worse than -300 bb or better than +500 bb. Mainly play 1/2 and 1/3 with some 2/5 mixed in.
People may combine a night's worth of poker into session when they state their session totals. I for one do. I constantly move tables/casinos and rather than say I had a 200/400/300/300 group of sessions I'd just say I'm up 1200 for the night.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:10 AM   #20730
NewClintEastwood
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knittle View Post
VPIP/PFR.

Considering starting to play Live on the side..

Would beating 10-25NL on WPN 9-max be close to the talent I'd face at 1/3 and 2/5?

My experience playing live is minimal, but I do know the game is about patience. Can find stretches of no playable spots for hours, but have to keep going.

If I played 1/3 to start, could I implement exploitative strategies similar to what I use for micros online?

What is a "Good/Solid" win rate per hour playing 1/3?


Thanks guys!
Your skill would be more than enough but the game is completely different. Like 90% of what you use for bet sizing is different, 3 bets basically don't exist, multiway is the norm, and ranges pre and on all streets are so so much wider.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:29 AM   #20731
Homey D. Clown
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Yes, and mainly because of those massive differences I consider statements such as "if you beat 10/25nl online, you'll crush 1/3, 2/5 and probably 5/10 live" as nonsense, at least as a given. We shouldn't pretend that adjusting to live play is easy. Sure, for some it actually is, but for others it can definitely take a while.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:06 AM   #20732
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The majority of players who appear to me to be good online players (and I can spot them a mile away based on their look and their playing style) usually get their asses kicked playing live until they learn to adjust. Lots of them never seem to adjust and just keep blasting away, barrelling and value owning themselves. I actually hear them sometimes saying things like "how can you not reraise that preflop?" when they bet 3 streets with JJ and lose a big pot to QQ and things like that.

A player good enough to win at a nice rate online should have the aptitude to crush live poker, but it is a completely different game as a few have already pointed out.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:14 AM   #20733
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Hi guys,

Looking for some feedback here for my last year of poker. I have played exclusively 1/3 and made a total of 2,798 dollars in 2017 while playing 333 hours.I know the sample size is LOL small but thoughts overall?
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:32 AM   #20734
NewClintEastwood
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I'll never knock somebody who is positive so pat yourself on the back for being a winner. That being said I think there is plenty of room to improve from 3BB/hour. Small sample yadayadayada but assuming it is close to what you should be I think you either play too tight/passive, call too light, or bet way too loose. You probably have a good idea of which of those you are so I'd try and make adjustments and go from there.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:32 AM   #20735
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi guys,

Looking for some feedback here for my last year of poker. I have played exclusively 1/3 and made a total of 2,798 dollars in 2017 while playing 333 hours.I know the sample size is LOL small but thoughts overall?
Sample size is too lol for anyone's thoughts to be meaningful
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:36 AM   #20736
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Well, you're winning, so you're doing better than the field. 3bb/hr is not exactly wining at a huge clip though. Hard to know at 333 hours if that's just variance or if you're leaving money on the table.

Post some hands ITF for discussion and you'll get a better idea of how you're playing.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:50 AM   #20737
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
Hi guys,

Looking for some feedback here for my last year of poker. I have played exclusively 1/3 and made a total of 2,798 dollars in 2017 while playing 333 hours.I know the sample size is LOL small but thoughts overall?
Working f/t with a family, it's hard to find the time to study/improve & 333 hours over 365 days isn't getting you the necessary experience. I'd be happy having not lost & be looking to give up t.v. as much as possible & study instead. 1 hr a day would help a lot. When I took up the guitar in my 20s I managed to find 2 hrs a day with 2 kids, but it was an acoustic. Didn't have DVR back in the day, so guess what I was doing during commercials of football games....
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:08 AM   #20738
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Originally Posted by NewClintEastwood View Post
I'll never knock somebody who is positive so pat yourself on the back for being a winner. That being said I think there is plenty of room to improve from 3BB/hour. Small sample yadayadayada but assuming it is close to what you should be I think you either play too tight/passive, call too light, or bet way too loose. You probably have a good idea of which of those you are so I'd try and make adjustments and go from there.
Thanks so much for the feedback! I honestly appreciate it! Yes u are correct I wanna say in the first 200 hours I was definitely playing way too tight passive and once I started playing more and learning more I started playing more aggressive (and started having bigger swings lol big loses and big wins as well)
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:11 AM   #20739
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Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Well, you're winning, so you're doing better than the field. 3bb/hr is not exactly wining at a huge clip though. Hard to know at 333 hours if that's just variance or if you're leaving money on the table.

Post some hands ITF for discussion and you'll get a better idea of how you're playing.
Absolutely! I feel like it’s a little bit of both I honestly feel like I’ve been on the bad side of variance more than I should be ( but hey that’ s poker and all I can do is get my money in good and long term it’ll be profitable) but I’ve also definitely left money on the table by not value betting thin enough or big enough. I’ve definitely learned recently that bet folding in 1/3 is huge! So much missed value can come from just checking and the large majority of players don’t ever raise as a bluff so I learned to utilize that.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:33 AM   #20740
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by andees10 View Post
If full ring is anything like 6 Max on wpn in terms of toughness you'll definitely crush any live 1/3, 2/5, 5/10 and 10/25
fyp
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:20 AM   #20741
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Also, dont get me started on the LOL online players beating online games using a HUD and having no idea how to develop actual reads and are playing blind when they play live and some of them literally act like they are blind.

Sorry, Sir....you dont get to see that your villain calls the river 24.3% of the time before you decide to bet or not.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:50 AM   #20742
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Also, dont get me started on the LOL online players beating online games using a HUD and having no idea how to develop actual reads and are playing blind when they play live and some of them literally act like they are blind.

Sorry, Sir....you dont get to see that your villain calls the river 24.3% of the time before you decide to bet or not.
Well that's not really fair. Online players use huds because they're playing more than 1 table at a time. Developing 'reads' is not difficult to do regardless of your background when you're just sitting there playing 30 hands an hour.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:36 PM   #20743
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hoping for at least a 20 poast debate on the topic.

I will argue that it's good for my WR when HUDsters stay on the webz.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:48 PM   #20744
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Well that's not really fair. Online players use huds because they're playing more than 1 table at a time. Developing 'reads' is not difficult to do regardless of your background when you're just sitting there playing 30 hands an hour.
Except that a lot of these guys have ADD and cant just sit and concentrate on the players in all the hands they arent in when the game moves at the slow place they arent used to. They sit there playing on their phone or watching a movie.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:53 PM   #20745
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Wondering what people's biggest downswings and breakeven stretches have been. I've got 165 (and several other ~140) hour breakeven stretches and a $5300 downswing at 2/5 (some 2/5/10). This is over 940 hours while running hot overall
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:11 PM   #20746
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
Wondering what people's biggest downswings and breakeven stretches have been. I've got 165 (and several other ~140) hour breakeven stretches and a $5300 downswing at 2/5 (some 2/5/10). This is over 940 hours while running hot overall
The graph represents the last 750 hrs for me (90% 2/5), the break even stretch lasted about 300 hours when I sucked and didn't run all that well.

Now I suck and have been running really freaking well.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:55 PM   #20747
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[x] in before GG bringing up his 955bb downswings for the umpteenth time.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:01 PM   #20748
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My longest break even was very very long, but that also entailed the downswing taking place at 10/10 and 2/5 and the grinding myself out of it at 1/3. Talk about a massive test of mental fortitude. Ugh makes me shiver just thinking about those dark days.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:51 PM   #20749
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey D. Clown View Post
Yes, and mainly because of those massive differences I consider statements such as "if you beat 10/25nl online, you'll crush 1/3, 2/5 and probably 5/10 live" as nonsense, at least as a given. We shouldn't pretend that adjusting to live play is easy. Sure, for some it actually is, but for others it can definitely take a while.


It's the same game except against weaker players making larger mistakes.

Yes there are nuances to live poker that can improve w/r, but a winning online player with solid preflop /postflop ranges, discipline and tilt control will be massively +ev in an avg llsnl lineup.

Adjusting to massive multiway pots vs weak ranges of passive players is pretty straightforward. Being able to sit there and fold through periods of boredom and frustration would be the hardest adjustment IMO
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:27 AM   #20750
Garick
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All, this is not the live vs. online thread. Stop with this derail now.
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