really helpful link sailboats. I knew my app was doing it wrong.

2/5NL: +56,479 over 936 hrs. StnDev/hr = $487.05 or 97.4bb/hr

All games: +129,207 over 2125 hrs. StnDev/hr = $578.05 or 124.25bb/hr
(my weighted average bb for all stakes = $4.65)

While I admit that I do it too sometimes, table changing is awful for the longevity of the games / your future winrate.

also justifiable reason for moving is if you’re relatively tall, the 4/7 seats are usually uncomfortable. I find the 1 seat not so great either.

Truth be told, these comfort factors will lose to having the right seat in the lineup.

if you play steaks where it’s only 9-handed, i guess it’s a bit harder to move based on comfort level as all the seats are good in 9max

In my experience most people land between 50 and 100 bb stndev per hour. Your room plays way deeper than Mike's, which may explain much/all of why yours is so different. I'll post up my mgm 1-3 number later today.

For comparison...Ive only played 40 hours at MGM 1/3 while on a trip a few months ago, but my StnDev was 49BB/hr

Without sitting at your tables for comparison purposes, I can't really say how much they differ (although I will say I've seen some HH in Meale's thread that blow my mind with respect to what holdings get a bunch of $$$ into the middle, so much so that I've stopped responding to HHs there because I feel I have zero handle on that game).

However, I've never said my 1/3 NL tables are horrible. I've won all 8 rec years I've played, and overall to the tune of about 7 bb/hr (although I don't believe that is possible going forward, although admittedly last year I came just shy of that but I'm guessing I ran good). The conditions are admittedly getting worse and worse in every manner, and the game is certainly much worse than what it once was, but whose game isn't. But it is still *very* beatable, and thus can hardly be ranked as horrible. I once played at the Aria for a single hour; no one said a word, everyone had earphones/backpacks, and lol 3x raises were taking it down preflop; stupid small sample size obviously (I was probably sitting at the wrong table, I just wanted a chip for my collection), but that was a horrible game relative to my usual game.

Tying this in with the recent table hopping / seat hopping talk, I think my worsening conditions kind of illustrate this. I'm a big believer in sitting in the best seat at the best table, and have done so as best I can (and as politely and subtlety as I can). However, nowadays I find I don't do it nearly as much; not out of some don't-tap-the-glass reason (everyone is a reg, we all know what is going on, no one is offended, everyone does it for many different reasons with some of them being simply a better view of the big screen TV, etc.), but rather because there typically isn't a "must be at" / "must be in" table / seat as much as there used to be.

GcluelessNLnoobG

+1 here also.

I just got home after more than 2 months grinding in Vegas, and its mindblowing to see the relentless table changing/seat jumping all the freaking time. It just gets worse and worse. Pure hit and running same issue. From somebody who have played alot in homegames/underground games, i am not that used to these kind of things. If you hit and run without any respect at all in a homegame, you simply dont get invited back. Seat changing during the game is no no. Because its bad for the game in any sort of way you can think of.

Same as you i experienced regs seat changing to get position on me, all the freaking time. They seem to get almost afraid if they have a good player to their left.Seat changing buttons from the dealer seems like the most precious treasure in the world for alot of bad breakeven/losing regs.

Edit:i know i am contributing to the slightly off topic discussion with this short post, but even so this discussion regarding the game conditions is very interesting.

My MGM 1/3 StnDev is 74BB/hr.

Having a good deep player to your left means you are sitting in by far the worse seat at the table, imo; I would also do pretty much anything to get out of that seat.

Of course I have zero home game experience so obviously "when in Rome"; but in a casino environment, when in Rome means seat changing / table hopping is perfectly standard and acceptable.

Gcluelessseatchanging/tablehoppingnoobG

The way I see it, I'll only seat change to get position on someone if I would be happy/indifferent to see them leave the game. So, I'd seat change to get position on a good, deep-stack reg. They may know what I'm doing, but who cares? If they don't like it and leave that's fine. I wouldn't seat change to get position on a whale.

Just keep your results log in Excel and use the formula there. Very easy.

If you're referring to using a built in formula like STDEV.S, that's only going to give you StnDev by session, not by hour.

EV of position on whales is higher than ev vs regs imo.

It helps to have a decent justification for jumping seats around whales. Either the superstitious "this seat's been unlucky" to the good old "I can't see the game on TV from here". Although sometimes I'll needle a reg that I'm explicitly getting position on him.

Home games are an interesting dynamic. You can sometimes pull the same moves as a casino. But in my experience players tend to sit for longer session and there's less turnover, so it's harder to move. But then you can get spots where the big whale that gets special treatment to get him into the game just *LOVES* a particular seat, say seat 8, and everyone else tries to get there early and lock up either seat 7 or seat 9 depending on how they want to play him.


2018 off to a marginal start. 6 sessions, 3 wins, 3 losses, down $750 over about 40 hours. All home game $1/2 PLO. Maybe 4 rounds of NLHE if we started with RxR. Meh.

Angrist, go hit that bbj sucka! (Just bring an oxygen tank with you)

I have such a low tolerance for sitting in that smokey ****hole surrounded by shortstacking grinders that have been chasing a BBJ for a year+. Let alone waiting an hour for a seat in the evening after a 45 min drive. It might be +$EV to play there, but it's got to be -lifeEV.

You're likely right. It's not about EV (or at least immediate EV). It's about the fact that whales aren't stupid, they know why you're seat-changing to get on their left, and they may rightfully decide to get up, decide to stop spewing, or at least choose to stop spewing to you if you seat change. I don't care if I offend some good, deep-stacked reg, but I don't want to offend a whale.

Angrist, yep. I played in a "smoke free" room (lol that they call them this when its basically on fire) all last year and really regret it. Will never set foot in there again. Hoping I didnt do any longterm damage. Some of the best games I've ever played, and no regs, but no win rate is worth that.

Lol 45min, I'm tempted to make the 11hr drive

Pm me before you go!

(Lol at me literally JUST posting I wouldnt play in smoke again)

Whales are literally clueless as to what you're doing the vast majority of the time. Helps to throw in the old "this seats been cold for ages" if you suspect they might catch on.

No, they aren't clueless. You are killing the longevity of your games. You are but one paper cut in a sea of knives that are bleeding the hog dry, but you should still shouldn't be a part of it.

Won't get through now but perhaps will help you that much sooner than otherwise.

Yeah, agree that they aren't clueless. What, everyone is flocking to their table just because everyone likes them and their company so much? They aren't complete idiots.

But at the same time, it's simply part of the casino environment (at least mine) where table changing / seat hopping is simply part of things and everyone (including the whale) understands that (and they are free to take advantage of it too).

Gcluelesstablechanging/seathoppingnoobG

Lol, forgive me for trying to increase my winning potential

I don't agree with this at all. Whales are not clueless. Most whales are smart people (they can afford to lose a lot so often have good, real jobs, businesses, etc.) who don't care about losing at poker, or have more fun playing and losing than the utility of the money to them. You don't want to do anything to change that calculus.