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Old 12-21-2017, 12:08 PM   #20251
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
However, I did have nice set up for quite a while. I got health insurance and knew that at least money would be there for bills even if I went bust.

She got to eat in fancy restaurants, stay in nice hotels and travel with me. Plus I had a flexible schedule and wasn't completely worn out and miserable at the end of the day.
Lucky her.

Sounds like a lot of right pocket / left pocket accounting to me.

Gsad,imoG
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:00 PM   #20252
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Yikes.

Gsad,imoG
Women can work now. It's a thing.

jkjk

Real talk though, that's the only reason I quit my job. Mrs. Nicname and I were both working, and we just decided it would be better for family life if I quit my job and just played cards.

It's working out well, but probably won't survive an upcoming move to a poker wasteland.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:02 PM   #20253
ES2
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yes, got to. We've been to tons of really nice Vegas restaurants, though not really the upper upper echelon (like Guy Savoy). But most of the steakhouses. Some, like Bouchon, probably 7-8 times or more. This is cuz I play poker and do a few other things to earn casino comps.

If I was grinding a dead end job still, we might go to places like that on our birthdays.

Back in California, we could almost never afford places like that. Like, maybe we could swing it if we found out a meteor was about to hit the earth.

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Lucky her.

Sounds like a lot of right pocket / left pocket accounting to me.

Gsad,imoG
I had to google this. Learn something new every day. Like I said, I make a lot in comps so it's just a really nice perk of the lifestyle. If you live somewhere with a lot of casinos, you should def. learn to milk the system as well as you can. Don't waste your comps in the foodcourt, for example, unless it's like .50 cents/hr at some dumpy Indian place.

Also, I can work on the road. So we could go to say, Palm Springs, and I could grind while she did whatever she wanted and usually pay for the trip.

These kinds of things can make it seem more fair to the gainfully employed SO, who might otherwise resent the situation. But they are good if you are single too. There's a big difference between making $15-20/hr and making that and getting tons of free stuff.
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Old 12-22-2017, 03:38 AM   #20254
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

2018 year of zippy's 2/5 domination
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:00 PM   #20255
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm likely done for the year, so might as well...




Unfortunately, my giraffe seems to have broken it's neck in early december .

I'm very pleased with my volume, much more than this would probably be detrimental to both work and play. Played mostly 2-4 and 5-5, some 2-2, and in the last 3 months i took some shots at 5-10, and had some fun swings along the way . I also ran super well in a few PLO sessions, which skews my graph a lot.
Obviously very happy overall.

Happy holidays everyone!
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:40 PM   #20256
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

PokerJournal has stopped updating and doesn't work with new OSes, so I'm going to make a switch for the new year. What's everyone using?
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:05 PM   #20257
sprtswrtr10
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Pep talk needed

I'm a 1-2 player at Indian Casinos in Oklahoma
I log all of my session in my poker income app.
Here is my year to date:

$8,385 profit
$15.12 an hour over 554 hours and 41 minutes
54 percent profitable sessions
$1331 in tips and meals (should I not tip as much?)

HOWEVER,
Here is my last 56:15 at the table.
$1,545 in the negative
27.47 in the negative/hour

Also, I'm down $620 over last 5 hours with the very last hand I played getting it all-in preflop with AK hearts against 88 (all in for $27) and QQ (called my all-in). The dude with QQ is a real gambler and he called the 88's $27 three-bet all-in (I opened for $10), only to have me move in with my stack. He surprisingly thought about folding with that hand, but ultimately called. Anyway, I don't want hand analysis here, I just want to explain that both the 8 and the Q came on the flop. Hence, in my narrative-filled mind, "are you ****ing kidding me, they both flopped a set, I will never win again."

I'm just back at one of those places where I feel like I want to quit forever because it feels like I'll never win again. I know this is crazy talk. I've had downswings of this size before, but I'm hitting this point where I can't take much more of the negative variance, along with whatever my contributions are to the slide, because the longer the slide, the more suspect I become of my own play.

It's not the money lost that's debilitating, but the losing itself. I can afford the loss. But playing only makes sense to me if I'm profitable, and I feel so far away from being profitable right now. You know, why play if you're just going to lose? That's where my head is.

Any thoughts on how to get to the other side of this emotionally? I like to think of myself as a $20/hour 1-2 player and I was about a dime short of that rate when this slide began. Maybe $20/hr is unrealistic?

Anyway, if anybody has a pep talk or if anybody has some perspective that might be helpful, that would be great. I need a frame of mind better than the one I have now.

Thanks so much.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:20 PM   #20258
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Re: Pep talk needed

rYou're on a 5-7 session downswing. That's not that bad. You're a winning player who is going through a down swing. I would take some time off and clear my head, and then come back once I was in a better place mentally. If you're going to continue to be a long term winner, you have to get to the point in which you don't get mad about losing per se, but only get mad about bad play. What I mean is, if you repeatedly get your money in good, and get sucked out on, that's just variance. Don't let it affect you. Only get upset when you get your money in bad repeatedly, because that's just bad play. You can control bad play. Just take time off, and clear your head. Try downloading headspace, it is a really good app. Keep your head up. Things will turn in your favor soon.

Last edited by osirus0830; 12-22-2017 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Spelling error
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:56 PM   #20259
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Re: Pep talk needed

I have no pep talk for you. This is a completely standard downswing. Sack up and play or don't.

You're winning overall and not entitled to be winning in the past x hours.
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Old 12-22-2017, 08:30 PM   #20260
VooDoo901
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Re: Pep talk needed

Heres my pep talk. I've been in a longer downswing in the same Oklahoma casinos. I'm a life time winning player and have been dealing with 6 months of this ****. A few losing sessions is just life. No biggie keep grinding.
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Old 12-22-2017, 08:46 PM   #20261
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Re: Pep talk needed

I’m also experiencing a downswing ($1,200 over a month). I’m just taking a break until I feel ready to play again. Good luck.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:26 PM   #20262
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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PokerJournal has stopped updating and doesn't work with new OSes, so I'm going to make a switch for the new year. What's everyone using?


I use rungood. Pretty happy with it
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:29 PM   #20263
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Re: Pep talk needed

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I’m also experiencing a downswing ($1,200 over a month). I’m just taking a break until I feel ready to play again. Good luck.
Ha! That's like a bad couple of days for me.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:37 PM   #20264
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

A little perspective.

In about 2500 hours of live play since April 2015 my worst downsings are:

About 4k (mix of 1/3, and 2/5)
About 4k (1/3, 5-10 w/ a 20 straddle PLO Hi-LO and 2/5)
About 3k (all 1/3)
About 2.5k (all 1/3)

The two 4k swongs and the 2.5k are all from this year. One of the 4k swings and the 2.5k one are within the last three months. I started playing "full time" In July.

Have a bankroll people.

Longest breakeven stretch was only about 100 hours, but felt like an eternity as I was playing about 15 hours a week at the time.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:47 PM   #20265
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you're not handling a downswing well, take a break. Don't play for a little while. Trying to 'force it' causes all kinds of problems that cost you money. You're better off blowing $400 on a casino hooker and relaxing a little than you are tilting it off at the tables playing a C- game.

55 hours is nothing.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:55 PM   #20266
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Plus there's only so many times that V's will flop a set against you, and they just used two of them up in one hand.
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Old 12-23-2017, 05:11 AM   #20267
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Re: Pep talk needed

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I’m also experiencing a downswing ($1,200 over a month). I’m just taking a break until I feel ready to play again. Good luck.
ahahah
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:10 AM   #20268
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Re: Pep talk needed

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Originally Posted by sprtswrtr10 View Post

Anyway, if anybody has a pep talk or if anybody has some perspective that might be helpful, that would be great. I need a frame of mind better than the one I have now.

Thanks so much.
Try to internalize, as much as possible, the fact that it genuinely doesn't matter. Or, at least, that the effect on your life is unknowable.

I'm paraphrasing Barry Greenstein here.

Say you are in your usual game one day and you crush and are up several buy ins.

There is a lot of buzz around the big game, 2 levels above what you normally play. A couple of rich drunks are just lighting money on fire. Raising huge without checking their cards, etc. There is a small fortune on the table.

You decide to use your winnings take a shot and shortly, you triple up. And, you continue to run good after that. It's a dream come true. You realize that you have enough money to double your BR, AND pay off most of your debt, or put towards a home or new car. Holly crap, you'd better get up.

Against your better judgement you play 1 more round. You're kind of panicked to look down at aces. A player in front of you who covers you 5xs it. At this point, there is no shame in playing scared so you make a ridiculous reraise. Let's say 10x his bet.

He looks confused and thinks for a while and calls. Flop is AK8 rainbow. He check raises the flop and you jam. "This would be the sickest fold ever," he says. But he can't do it and calls with his KK.

Turn 4. River J. You just took down a pot with your annual income in it. You go home and bang the bejesus out of your girl. 9 months later, she gives birth to a future junkie who will cause you endless heartache and money before going to jail for murder.

Turn 4. River K. This is the worst thing ever. You're just crushed. You will wonder why you didn't get up sooner for years. Your depressed for days. Eventually, you have sex with your girl and nine months later she gives birth to a kid you will graduate from a prestigious medical school and bring you tons of happiness and pride.

Or, you get in a car crash, or you take down a WSOP event 2 years later or...

You have no idea how it's going to pan out but any particular (and inevitable) downswing is just one link in a very long chain and to worry much about it is objectively foolishness. So you can continue to be a fool, or choose not to be one.
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:01 PM   #20269
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It’s helpful to remind yourself that it can get much much worse and be thankful you’re only in the midst of a 50, 100, 200 break even stretch etc.

There’s nothing guaranteed in poker and you’re not entitled to run at EV let alone >EV.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:49 PM   #20270
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Nice thread..
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:42 AM   #20271
Big Perm
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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It’s helpful to remind yourself that it can get much much worse and be thankful you’re only in the midst of a 50, 100, 200 break even stretch etc.

There’s nothing guaranteed in poker and you’re not entitled to run at EV let alone >EV.
This. I can't recall how many 10BI downswings I've had over the years.

And at this point, I'm pretty much convinced that EV is a f*cking fairly tale.
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:55 AM   #20272
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Re: Pep talk needed

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Originally Posted by sprtswrtr10 View Post
I'm just back at one of those places where I feel like I want to quit forever because it feels like I'll never win again. I know this is crazy talk. I've had downswings of this size before, but I'm hitting this point where I can't take much more of the negative variance, along with whatever my contributions are to the slide, because the longer the slide, the more suspect I become of my own play.

It's not the money lost that's debilitating, but the losing itself. I can afford the loss. But playing only makes sense to me if I'm profitable, and I feel so far away from being profitable right now. You know, why play if you're just going to lose? That's where my head is.
It's extremely standard. And honestly, it's the biggest reason (among many others) why I knew even trying to go pro wasn't the path I wanted to go down after playing 'semi-pro' for a couple of years as a decent side income.

Just keep things in perspective, and take breaks when you can when your head isn't right. You should also see a TON of easy money over the next couple of weeks with the holidays, so play some TAG poker, book a few small wins, and that will help get you back in the right head space.
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:33 AM   #20273
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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This. I can't recall how many 10BI downswings I've had over the years.

And at this point, I'm pretty much convinced that EV is a f*cking fairly tale.
lol, thats not a downswing. Thats a losing session.
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Old 12-25-2017, 02:03 AM   #20274
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lol, thats not a downswing. Thats a losing session.
I wish that wasn't true, but you're right. I've lost 8 of my last 10 sessions to drop almost 10BI, running about 9BI under EV. These are the stretches where I'm glad I can just say f*ck it and quit for a while then rebuild at micros.
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:24 AM   #20275
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

don’t think my 2017 is done quite yet but i did hit 500 hours for the year over the weekend

i mean, i was down the most after 100 sessions let alone 10 but look after that and i don’t think it matters

60% 1/2, 35% 1/3, 5% 2/5



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