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Old 12-04-2017, 08:59 PM   #20101
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

And moved and re-opened...
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:01 PM   #20102
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Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

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Just started playing 1/2, 1/3, 2/3 semi-recreationally with 187 hours logged and am currently +$1444 winning 39/64 sessions. $7.68/hr. I understand there’s still a lot on my game I need to work on, but for those that are crushing/doing well, how consistently are you guys winning? I’m concerned with how volatile my sessions can be that there are several and urgent leaks in my game that need to be addressed quickly. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks!
I'd expect winning players to book wins in 60% to 80% of their live sessions, probably 65%+ at the 1/2 level. I book a very high winning percentage but I also don't like to leave as a loser meaning I will grind longer just to book a win which makes this stat completely meaningless for me.

The thing you really need to understand is that being a good poker player takes hard work and experience. With only 187 hours under you belt it's impossible for you to be very good at poker. You most certainly have numerous leaks that you don't even know about. The good news is that despite being at an experience disadvantage you have had success. Just keep looking for ways to improve and you should do fine.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:51 AM   #20103
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Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

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Pretty confident in saying that less than 1% of players win 70% of their sessions long term with 80% probably never happening. I'm winning 10bb/hr over 970 hrs and only have won 61% of sessions.

Edit: this is assuming average session length is 3-4 hrs. I guess if every session you play is 12 hrs, then 80% might be possible.
Same here, I'm winning 11bb/hr over my last 1000 hours, but still winning only 60% of my sessions. This year I'm at 13bb/hr over 400 hours, with a mere 56% (average length is under 5 hours). So I'm guessing your winning percentage is sort of meaningless.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:55 AM   #20104
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm much less concerned these days about "booking a win", so my w% is like 55% but my WR as a whole is still much higher then it was years ago when my w% was like 65%. Meaningless stat imo, especially all the sessions you win/lose less then like 30bb, only the amount of time you spend at the table after that point will determine if its a win for the "session". And I'm not in the business of grinding an extra hour to pad my stats.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:13 AM   #20105
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I guess what's more important is that when you do win, you win more than you lose when you lose. I think anywhere between 55-75% for live 2/5 is normal. 80 is prob lolsample or majority sample running very good.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:50 AM   #20106
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Some more data on session win % - Year to date
Hours 956
Average session length 8.85 hours
67% sessions are winning
9.85bb/ hour

I never vary my session length based on winning or losing that session. I work full time, so only way to get poker hours in is to play as much as possible when my schedule permits.




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Old 12-05-2017, 12:58 PM   #20107
Bostonbryan
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Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

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Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer View Post
What's your rake and average stack size? In some parts of the country, min wage is a good w/r for the lowest stakes.

Also +2 to: small sample size, winrates thread, GG's thread.
The rake is $6 and $7 if it goes to the river. I usually play 2/3 with a 100-300 max. Stack depth varies from like $40-$800, but usually I'll see a mix of $150ish stacks to a couple $500+ stacks and those that have like $40 left lol.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:07 PM   #20108
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Rake / stacks in my game is quite similar. It's not a great rake for stacks this mediocre, especially if stacks aren't flying in a lot in lol fashion. In a "bad" game (i.e. a lotta of semi-solid players with only a couple/few poor players), any positive longterm winrate would be a good one, imo.

GgoodluckG
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:19 PM   #20109
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Originally Posted by YGOchamp View Post
I'm much less concerned these days about "booking a win", so my w% is like 55% but my WR as a whole is still much higher then it was years ago when my w% was like 65%. Meaningless stat imo, especially all the sessions you win/lose less then like 30bb, only the amount of time you spend at the table after that point will determine if its a win for the "session". And I'm not in the business of grinding an extra hour to pad my stats.
So I completely agree in the idea that winning percentage is completely useless, but in regards to the 30bb comment I feel like my sessions have either resulted in 30-50 bb wins with the occasional 100-175 bb win or a 100-200 bb loss. Granted my sessions don't last very long (2-3 hours) due to work and other priorities, but is there just a huge leak that I'm just not accounting for with these small wins coupled with massive losses?
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:27 PM   #20110
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Prolly just a very small sample size in general, compounded from the fact that your session lengths are very small, so very hard to make any assumptions from the data you've given.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:29 PM   #20111
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I know for me the only difference between a massive losing session and massive winning one is typically the outcome of like 2 or 3 hands; this would be especially true the shorter your sessions are (where 1 hand could easily be the deciding factor).

More the question to be concerned about is how you're getting your money into big pots. If you're mostly doing it as the favourite or with reasonable expected FE (sometimes coupled with a decent draw) then you're probably doing alright. If you're mostly doing it as an underdog, especially in hands that shouldn't be considered coolers, then you probably have something to be concerned about.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:49 PM   #20112
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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I know for me the only difference between a massive losing session and massive winning one is typically the outcome of like 2 or 3 hands; this would be especially true the shorter your sessions are (where 1 hand could easily be the deciding factor).

More the question to be concerned about is how you're getting your money into big pots. If you're mostly doing it as the favourite or with reasonable expected FE (sometimes coupled with a decent draw) then you're probably doing alright. If you're mostly doing it as an underdog, especially in hands that shouldn't be considered coolers, then you probably have something to be concerned about.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Thanks for this input. I try to remind myself of how shallow and short my time of playing poker has been thus far and completely agree with your statements. I have been getting the money in as a decent favorite most of the time but just end up losing the pot.

88 vs AQss (flop top set on the flop, lose to flush on the turn = $800ish pot)
64hh vs 88 (flop top pair plus straight draw plus flush draw, turn two pair, lose on river to paired board = $800ish pot)
JJ vs KTo (flop a set, lose to runner runner straight = $600ish pot)

Some pretty gross spots, but it's negative variance I'm assuming? Still learning, but thanks again for this insight!
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:59 PM   #20113
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Another thing to remember is small wins are very important.

I've told this little anecdote a few times in here but my biggest winning month ever was mostly made up of 30-70bb wins.

I used to think locking up small wins was a leak but all other things considered, if you're up a few hundred bucks you have crushed your session. The end.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:28 PM   #20114
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Another thing to remember is small wins are very important.

I've told this little anecdote a few times in here but my biggest winning month ever was mostly made up of 30-70bb wins.

I used to think locking up small wins was a leak but all other things considered, if you're up a few hundred bucks you have crushed your session. The end.
Small wins are not very important. It literally makes no difference whether you lock up a small win, small loss, or big win or big loss. There are several criteria for when to end a session for serious players/pros and none of them are "to book a win".
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:30 PM   #20115
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

This is my lifetime graph. Includes my early years as a mostly 10-20LHE rec player up to my now mostly 1-3NLHE rec player. I also included my by game breakdown. Graph includes a losing year (2016).
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:32 PM   #20116
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Nice.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:59 PM   #20117
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Originally Posted by Submerged View Post
This is my lifetime graph. Includes my early years as a mostly 10-20LHE rec player up to my now mostly 1-3NLHE rec player. I also included my by game breakdown. Graph includes a losing year (2016).
Nice giraffe. Should probably just play whatever you were playing between 1000 - 1400 hours?

Gcongrats,imoG
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:01 PM   #20118
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Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

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The rake is $6 and $7 if it goes to the river. I usually play 2/3 with a 100-300 max. Stack depth varies from like $40-$800, but usually I'll see a mix of $150ish stacks to a couple $500+ stacks and those that have like $40 left lol.
So you play at the Bike? I tried to calculate the hourly charge there and it comes out to ~$19/hr. Unbeatable in the long term for anything significant. You're probably maxing out right now. The 5/5 and 5/10 games in LA drop the same amount you're paying in the 2/3.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:12 PM   #20119
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Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

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So you play at the Bike? I tried to calculate the hourly charge there and it comes out to ~$19/hr. Unbeatable in the long term for anything significant. You're probably maxing out right now. The 5/5 and 5/10 games in LA drop the same amount you're paying in the 2/3.
Yeah the rake is ridiculous. I feel as if I'm posting these kind of numbers though through 200 hours that I am nowhere near close to moving up to the 5/5. Plus I wouldn't be properly bankrolled. Is this $7 rake really impossible to make a decent profit out of?
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:19 PM   #20120
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Alot of people would hump a man's leg to have $7 rake. Its not that bad.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:28 PM   #20121
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$7 isn't bad. However, I believe it's $6 just to see a flop and that would be absolutely dreadful. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


edit: researched this a bit and it appears that in 2011 rake at the Bike was $1 preflop and a total of $5 to see a flop, so I'm guessing today it's $1 preflop and another $5 on the flop.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:55 PM   #20122
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Another thing to remember is small wins are very important.

I've told this little anecdote a few times in here but my biggest winning month ever was mostly made up of 30-70bb wins.

I used to think locking up small wins was a leak but all other things considered, if you're up a few hundred bucks you have crushed your session. The end.

It's not really so much "locking up a win" or anything that matters here. It's that short sessions can have much larger winrates than we initially think of even though "nothing happened". If you play 3 hours of $1/2, never get into a >$150 pot and walk away +$60 ... you just booked a $20/hr 10bb/hr win. Nothing bad about that at all, even though it doesn't *feel* like a big win.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Submerged View Post
This is my lifetime graph. Includes my early years as a mostly 10-20LHE rec player up to my now mostly 1-3NLHE rec player. I also included my by game breakdown. Graph includes a losing year (2016).
Nice. Always like seeing big samples.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:32 PM   #20123
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Alot of people would hump a man's leg to have $7 rake. Its not that bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
$7 isn't bad. However, I believe it's $6 just to see a flop and that would be absolutely dreadful. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


edit: researched this a bit and it appears that in 2011 rake at the Bike was $1 preflop and a total of $5 to see a flop, so I'm guessing today it's $1 preflop and another $5 on the flop.
Yeah, Los Angeles works on a flat drop, not rake, as every other place I've seen in California. The Bike drops $1 pre, both when hands are folded preflop to a raise, or when players chop. If it's a chop, small blind forfeits the dollar. Commerce takes $2. If the pot is won on the flop or turn, an additional $5 is taken, with a final $1 getting tacked on if there's a river. Hawaiian gardens takes that extra buck OTT.

It amounts to paying 10% rake capped at ~$60 no matter what the pot size. I think it's only worth playing this game when eff stacks are over $500. Too often, you find yourself at a table with people min-buying for $100 though. I guess if you sit in good games, you can crank out $10/hr+, but I don't see anyone humping legs for this charge when you can play 1/2 and 1/3 in Nevada for much cheaper.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:36 PM   #20124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Alot of people would hump a man's leg to have $7 rake. Its not that bad.
Can confirm, 10% capped at 15 down here.

Wish I recorded stats of my play this year, would like to contribute to this thread. Maybe next year.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:57 PM   #20125
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Heh $1+5 to see a flop is purty bad. Still our max rake (also $7) is almost always hit in any decent game even by the flop. This is because 6x opens are going 3-5 ways every hand.

At least the rake is capped is what I'm getting at. Could be worse.
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