Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em live cash games of all stakes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2017, 02:11 PM   #20076
gangip
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,079
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by homerdash View Post
can’t say i’ve been doing it recently but if you are truly serious business about tracking and data i would take notes of stack size each down and/or note every vpip hand
Heh, iirc my craziest session in 4 years went like this: I started up 400bb, then I lost 1100bb, and then recovered to win something like 20bb on the session. I record by hours - like any sane person! - so it basically showed up as this breakeven blip on my graph despite being involved in over a dozen enormous pots.

The other 5,000+ hours are all really boring sessions though.
gangip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 02:46 PM   #20077
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 12,215
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gangip View Post
The other 5,000+ hours are all really boring sessions though.
Without an undertitle I'm not sure we can be taking claims like this seriously imo
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 05:49 PM   #20078
BlueSpade84
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 285
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Interesting. Do you guys actually record hour by hour your results at the table?

I have only ever recorded my session stats, which completely washes out those intra-sessions swings. In general I like to keep the table as talkative and light-hearted as I can. I also try to avoid overt expressions of professionalism like taking copious notes on each hand detailing my vpip!
BlueSpade84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 05:58 PM   #20079
BlueSpade84
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 285
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfan43 View Post
Solid results! Try to mix in a $2/5 shot when the game looks good. I constantly suggest this to my solid 1/2-1/3 buddies.
Thanks soxfan! I will probably start taking a couple 2-5 shots here in a month or two. However, I'm also wanting to make sure I'm rolled for the game before I take too many shots. My 2-5 game plays pretty big as it is an uncapped buy in and it is common for players to be sitting with 3-5k.

When I hit $10k I'll probably start taking some $500 buy in shots at the $2-5 game. Might be sooner than I think, I just had another $1000 session after I posted. Hooray for heaters!
BlueSpade84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 06:49 PM   #20080
gangip
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,079
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Without an undertitle I'm not sure we can be taking claims like this seriously imo
This is fine by me. Without concrete proof I can still imagine it's all just a dream...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSpade84 View Post
I have only ever recorded my session stats, which completely washes out those intra-sessions swings. In general I like to keep the table as talkative and light-hearted as I can. I also try to avoid overt expressions of professionalism like taking copious notes on each hand detailing my vpip!
This is the correct way to do things.
gangip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 06:53 PM   #20081
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,620
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I know of no one who records their results hourly. Ot's just that some programs will stretch your y-axis out by the number of hours you entered in for a session, and others just record each session as a standard unit.
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 07:43 PM   #20082
meale
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
meale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 9,840
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
I know of no one who records their results hourly. Ot's just that some programs will stretch your y-axis out by the number of hours you entered in for a session, and others just record each session as a standard unit.
You've missed what I mean. People measure winrate in BB/hr. X axis should be hours played, not sessions. 200 sessions of AVG length 3 hours is a completely different sample to 8 hour sessions.
meale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 07:52 PM   #20083
Homey D. Clown
adept
 
Homey D. Clown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,103
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

An X-axis with hours played, that's not even possible in that app. Only sessions and dates (i.e. months).
Homey D. Clown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:26 PM   #20084
Dizzyqtp
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dizzyqtp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,384
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

That's why excel is king. $/session graphs aren't too helpful
Dizzyqtp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:32 PM   #20085
meale
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
meale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 9,840
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ye that's what I'm saying, why would any app not offer winnings by hours?
meale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:41 PM   #20086
browni3141
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,145
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

How much is sample variance influenced by the quitting point? Could it be that we are each individually biased towards quitting at certain points and our SD values are not reliable at all? For example, one player may like to quit if he makes break-even, but his session was actually really swingy. Another player may tend to quit at high or low points more often. Can anybody quantify this effect?
browni3141 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 04:59 AM   #20087
Homey D. Clown
adept
 
Homey D. Clown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,103
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Ye that's what I'm saying, why would any app not offer winnings by hours?
It does, but not in the graph. I wouldn't wanna keep track of my results per hour anyway, I prefer to keep my focus on my game while I'm playing, I see no reason to set an alarm every hour to count my stack.
Homey D. Clown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 06:38 AM   #20088
meale
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
meale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 9,840
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey D. Clown View Post
It does, but not in the graph. I wouldn't wanna keep track of my results per hour anyway, I prefer to keep my focus on my game while I'm playing, I see no reason to set an alarm every hour to count my stack.
Again, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
meale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 09:22 AM   #20089
Homey D. Clown
adept
 
Homey D. Clown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,103
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Again, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Then I misunderstood you apparently. I wouldn't mind a graph that shows my results per hour instead of per session. But the problem remains it wouldn't actually be results per hour, since individual hours aren't tracked because I enter my data in "sessions" and one session typically consists of multiple hours. So how would the graph know if it should go up or down from hour 1 to 2 for instance?

I still wouldn't mind if it was the same graph as the "per session" graph, but with hours instead of sessions on the X-axis, but the graph wouldn't mean anything. And the app does show your results per hour in the stats, that's all you need, right?

I don't know, perhaps I still don't understand what you're trying to say.
Homey D. Clown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 09:35 AM   #20090
meale
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
meale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 9,840
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey D. Clown View Post
Then I misunderstood you apparently. I wouldn't mind a graph that shows my results per hour instead of per session. But the problem remains it wouldn't actually be results per hour, since individual hours aren't tracked because I enter my data in "sessions" and one session typically consists of multiple hours. So how would the graph know if it should go up or down from hour 1 to 2 for instance?

I still wouldn't mind if it was the same graph as the "per session" graph, but with hours instead of sessions on the X-axis, but the graph wouldn't mean anything. And the app does show your results per hour in the stats, that's all you need, right?

I don't know, perhaps I still don't understand what you're trying to say.
Yeah hours on X axis because then we can actually guage a sample size.
meale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 02:50 PM   #20091
Bostonbryan
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 139
How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

Just started playing 1/2, 1/3, 2/3 semi-recreationally with 187 hours logged and am currently +$1444 winning 39/64 sessions. $7.68/hr. I understand there’s still a lot on my game I need to work on, but for those that are crushing/doing well, how consistently are you guys winning? I’m concerned with how volatile my sessions can be that there are several and urgent leaks in my game that need to be addressed quickly. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Bostonbryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 03:05 PM   #20092
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33,407
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

You could probably read thru some of the Winrates thread, although it's a pretty long read and might actually be difficult to weed out why exactly you're looking for.

If you're asking about your session winrate (i.e. how many winning vs losing sessions you are having) a lot of that is dependent on session length, whether you hit and run, etc. It's kinda probably mostly meaningless.

If you're asking about how your winrate stacks up, so far it's positive, which is good considering the majority of players who play are losing players.

But overall, you've played 187 hours, a lol small sample size where results will be beyond meaningless.

Best method is often to read some literature, post / respond to threads, play (taking into account anything useful you think you may have picked up and see how you think it applies to your game), and then repeat over and over and over again until you die.

Ggoodluck!G
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 03:25 PM   #20093
BlueSpade84
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 285
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

Welcome to 2+2!

My story. I played 1/3 for several years prior to having kids with a consistent but small win rate ($15-20/hr). I just took 4 years off and started playing again this fall. My game has improved dramatically as I've matured a lot, learned to control tilt, and manage my image more in the games I play. But I've only played about 100hrs since being back in the game and have run super hot. I'm up a little over $5500 in 100hrs.

If you are looking for % sessions won, that will depend a lot on the factors mentioned by GG. But I think that a lot of consistent winners will have 70-80% winning sessions over a larger sample size. No-one wins 100%. But whatever your stats are will by massively influenced by things like stop-loss triggers. (I personally have a 200bb stop-loss). I find it unlikely that I am playing my best game after losing two buy-ins and so opt for the early night if that happens.

So far my session stats are either I win ($xx - $yyyy) or lose 200bbs
BlueSpade84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 03:29 PM   #20094
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
LLSNL FF Champ '13
 
ibelieveyouoweme$80k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wentzylvania baby
Posts: 12,851
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
You could probably read thru some of the Winrates thread, although it's a pretty long read and might actually be difficult to weed out why exactly you're looking for.

If you're asking about your session winrate (i.e. how many winning vs losing sessions you are having) a lot of that is dependent on session length, whether you hit and run, etc. It's kinda probably mostly meaningless.

If you're asking about how your winrate stacks up, so far it's positive, which is good considering the majority of players who play are losing players.

But overall, you've played 187 hours, a lol small sample size where results will be beyond meaningless.

Best method is often to read some literature, post / respond to threads, play (taking into account anything useful you think you may have picked up and see how you think it applies to your game), and then repeat over and over and over again until you die.

Ggoodluck!G


He should read your thread.

Winning 80 percent of sessions is great. Winning 67 percent is above average.

OP your hourly isn’t great but you are winning.

Keep reading here and reading books and it should improve


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ibelieveyouoweme$80k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 03:34 PM   #20095
QuantumSurfer
old hand
 
QuantumSurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Home on the Range
Posts: 1,953
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

What's your rake and average stack size? In some parts of the country, min wage is a good w/r for the lowest stakes.

Also +2 to: small sample size, winrates thread, GG's thread.
QuantumSurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 04:13 PM   #20096
niceguy22
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 820
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

Pretty confident in saying that less than 1% of players win 70% of their sessions long term with 80% probably never happening. I'm winning 10bb/hr over 970 hrs and only have won 61% of sessions.

Edit: this is assuming average session length is 3-4 hrs. I guess if every session you play is 12 hrs, then 80% might be possible.
niceguy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 04:26 PM   #20097
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
LLSNL FF Champ '13
 
ibelieveyouoweme$80k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wentzylvania baby
Posts: 12,851
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22 View Post
Pretty confident in saying that less than 1% of players win 70% of their sessions long term with 80% probably never happening. I'm winning 10bb/hr over 970 hrs and only have won 61% of sessions.

Edit: this is assuming average session length is 3-4 hrs. I guess if every session you play is 12 hrs, then 80% might be possible.


Well my friend is a 2/5 pro and she’s at 80. Her friend is higher.

I am not that good and I’m at 67ish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ibelieveyouoweme$80k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 04:50 PM   #20098
BlueSpade84
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 285
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22 View Post
Pretty confident in saying that less than 1% of players win 70% of their sessions long term with 80% probably never happening. I'm winning 10bb/hr over 970 hrs and only have won 61% of sessions.

Edit: this is assuming average session length is 3-4 hrs. I guess if every session you play is 12 hrs, then 80% might be possible.
Yes, I was assuming that we would be playing longer sessions than 3 hrs. My average session is more like 8 hrs. Of course, quitting tendencies will play a large roll (I like to quit while I'm ahead). So if I'm up 150bb's and take a 50bb loss within an hour of my session time I'll often just book the win if I'm feeling done with the night.

I actually think that leaning to quit/take a break when frustrated has been my single biggest improvement during my time off from poker. I used to think muscling through the negative moments was the sign of a good player, but I think I was just tilting too much.
BlueSpade84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 04:51 PM   #20099
samo
Pooh-Bah
 
samo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,082
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

Welcome to 2+2!

Small sample, low hourly but positive, so congrats on the good start. As others have said, check the hands posted in the LLSNL thread, read whatever u can. 2+2 mag articles are free, Andrew Brokos usually has a monthly article.

One thing to think about when playing $1-$3 NL is how often u are completing or calling from the SB. Playing too frequently from that spot is a leak. Same for other stakes, but $1-$3 costs twice as much.

Imho, the win rate % is not as critical as focusing on growing your hourly. There will be sessions where u simply can’t do much – card dead, more playable hands oop, table dynamics, etc. Lose small pots, win bigger pots is good mantra to keep in mind.

GL!
samo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 05:09 PM   #20100
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,620
Re: How Consistently Do You Win At 1/3?

Yup, this belongs in the Winrates thread. I'm on my phone at the moment, but if another mod doesn't move it first, I'll get it when I get home and you can continue the discussion.
Garick is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive