Yeah, that's what's baffling--top x% to earn $4.18 and it's still brutal. I can't imagine how the losers come back. Maybe it doesn't feel so bad when you're just gamboolin compared to regularly and knowledgeably seeing sizable equity ripped away before your eyes.

It's like anything else in life in that it's relative. The people in the rich suburb don't think they're rich because everyone around them is rich. But it still pains me despite being conscious of that. I'm reading Painless Poker though so hopefully never again

I'd probably be drinking that beer regardless of skating or not.

A lot of them don't realize that they're losers. They don't keep records, and they remember the big wins more than the loses. Or they keep selective records. Throwing out one or two sessions because they "don't count" can swing your results pretty damn significantly from the red to the green.

Then some just love the rush. They assume that they're going to lose a couple of grand every year (or every month, bless their whale souls) and just play to have fun.

Some of them know they're losing, but believe that it's just because of bad luck, that they can turn it around if the dealer stops ****ing them over. I know a couple like this that I'm somewhat life friendly with and I want to tell them why they keep losing ... but I don't because I'm a horrible degen.

This is the key to poker for me. It's a hobby, and ideally I make money, but even if I lose money it's a lot less than I would spend golfing or collecting cars or whatever else people do with their free time.

Of course I've made $75k from poker this year...

I’m at 19bb/hr for 161 hours (20 sessions). I’ll post a graph when I get to 500hrs. Inb4 I get flamed for posting a low sample size.

It's great that you've started out well in your first 20 sessions.

Thank you. I’ve had two 600bb downswing where I tilted a bit. I’m guessing downswings as big as 1000bb are normalish? I’m gonna scan through some graphs on here and look for that

Depends on your definition of "normal". It also depends on how much better you are than your player pool. If you're in the top 2-5%, maybe you hit a 1000BB downswing once every 1000 hours. If you are a marginal winner, it could happen a lot more regularly.

Depends on a lot. Obviously first how good you are relative to your competition.

But then the depth of the game matters a lot more than almost anything else. A 200BB cap game will have larger swings than a 100BB cap game, especially if you're getting stacks in often. It's not *just* the cap though, it's the average stack and the action (which *tend* to follow the cap but don't need to).

Your propensity to tilt will make any natural down variance worse too.

I also think that the length of your sessions will impact how often you *see* a downswing in your data. If you're playing 2 hour sessions, you may lose two in a row for -200BB each, then win the 3rd for +300BB. But if you lumped those hours into one single session you'd be -100BB and it wouldn't *look* like you swung as hard.

Last thing ... even if you could figure out that for your game conditions and player pool you'd expect a particular downswing every 1000 or so hours, that doesn't mean you can't have one at 200 hours. Or 3 in 1000 hours.

Damn if that's not the funniest and most accurate description of PLO I've ever read.

Thanks guys. I’m playing 100bb max buyin, no cap. Stacks are generally not short. I hope I don’t see another downswing that’s larger than 600bb, but I’m mentally prepared for more than that. With my online experience I think I can maintain a 10bb/hr winrate. I currently have a 1.5 hour drive so anything less than that would be a grind. I’ll post updates. At a casino called FW. Any recommendations on when to move up stakes? For instance 1000 hours with a 10bb/hr winrate.

People that beat the game for 10 bigs per over the long term can taste their edge. When you sit at the table as a 10+bb winner you know exactly where your edge lies. There is no missing it. Your opponents are like open books. You pretty much know what they are gunna do before they do. You see their errors and blast em for it. If this resonates and u are like yep I feel you. Take a poke at higher games. If not and you are simply running really hot take your time and work things out for a while

You buy in 100bb but it's uncapped? Can you clarify? 100bb max is a capped game.

Sorry my understanding of capped was incorrect (I’m a former online “CAP” game player where each hand is capped). Yes the buyin is capped.

I feel you squid face. I’ll give it at least 500 hours.

As a marginal winner, can confirm.

Seemed like I was getting to this "enlightened state" till the beginning of this month when I plunged hard. Slowly started getting back into the mood over the past week or so, but finding it difficult when I'm assuming to either get sucked out on or run into the tip top of everyone's range. Also, should probably brush up on short stack fundamentals since my $600 cap 5/5 game has seen a tenfold increase in straddling... which I'm trying to convince myself of is the reason for the larger swings.

I'm less than 40 hours from 1500 over the past 13 months. I have a full-time job so this is mostly recreational play although I certainly spend my PTO at the poker table. I will post my extremely mediocre results and graph in the coming weeks. 1000 bb downswing? Pssssssh that's nothin! I am (hopefully) on the other side of a 2800 bb downswing over about 2 months. Yes there were some instances where I played bad/tilted/whatever, but the bulk of it was true run bad. It sucked ass during but I'm better having experienced it. If that happens at the beginning of the stretch, I'm broke before I even got started. If you are getting to the point where you are winning after 200/300/400 hours, you've accomplished something already if you ask me.

1500 hours over 13 months as a rec player with a full-time job is extremely impressive.

Or extremely unimpressive.

I'm not sure which?

Glifebalance,imo,butgoodluck!G

Ugh yes I think impressive and also pathetic. What is also impressive and pathetic is the total rake paid during that time. I used to ignore all of your warnings about importance of rake, but I feel it now after putting in crazy volume.

full time job + 1500 hours of poker over 13 months is absolutely insane.

Confirmed. I've got 1167 hours during past 13 months with full time job which is neither healthy or sane.

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yeah 872 hours for me. can't fathom how you hit 1500 lol

Minimum 9-5 + 30 hours per week of poker not including commuting hours for each.

I don't have a job and I'd pop champagne if I hit 1500 hours in a year (I actually cracked open a few cold ones when I hit 1200 a few weeks ago)

I was going to clip 800 this year as a personal best and ended up in the hospital last month.

If you are doing that kind of time make sure you diet/exercise religiously, otherwise its not worth it imo.

Huh, and I thought I was a degen at 500-600 hours.

I can't imaging hitting 1500. Even with a couple of poker trips to put in 3-4 18 hour days in a row I doubt I could do it.

My diet isn't great or terrible and I don't exercise like I used to (former athlete), but I stay in pretty decent shape. Sleep is the main thing sacrificed, as I often worker earlier hours to get to play more. Sometimes play overnights. I think I'll cut back to a certain extent in 2018. We'll see what happens.