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Old 11-06-2017, 03:13 PM   #19876
jc315
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

nice results dizzy. what do you make of your $10/10 results? do you think you have a significant skill edge over the player pool (including the above average regs)? Do you feel like you've been running significantly over EV?

210 hours is obv not much but it's not nothing either.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:37 PM   #19877
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T/T i have been running very well overall and have done a good job at putting together and playing in some pretty good lineups. i was winning @ 250/hr until more recently when i've lost ~8.5k over my last 4 sessions; which was a mix of mistakes and run-bad.

I think long-term I am a winner in the game but obv not for 18bb/hr. my results have been very swingy - lots of big wins and big losses - so i am interested to see what it converges to long term. i am confident in lineups that include tougher regs/pros, but i think there are a lot of things i can be doing better.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:56 PM   #19878
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very impressive & good results dizzy

in your opinion what do you do that sets you apart from your competition? do you study a lot? are you subbed/coached by anybody right now?
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:11 PM   #19879
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Originally Posted by kekeeke View Post
very impressive & good results dizzy

in your opinion what do you do that sets you apart from your competition? do you study a lot? are you subbed/coached by anybody right now?
ty sir!

i do not study very much, no. i wish i could do more in-depth studying but i work full-time/am mostly busy on weekends. i have never had a coach.

my "studying" consist of:
- reading and posting on 2p2 (really helpful in my beginning poker career)
- clp (i don't get as much out of this as i did in my earlier days either, but i still listen to some podcasts in the car/watch the occasional video)
- watch latb streams when they are on/i am home
- putting in volume online (mostly 200nlz on ignition atm)
- discussing hands with a select few people in my pool

what sets me apart from other regs?

intangibles: i am pleasant to play with/friendly with recs, i am properly rolled, i promote straddles when i can, i rarely/don't tilt, i show my hand first, i will drink a beer at times at the table, avoid strat talk, etc. basically do everything and anything i can to promote a good environment at the table.
(aka anyone who hasn't read DGAF's thread should - this stuff matters!)

tangibles: i think i play in a sweet spot between the nit/tag regs and the maniacs - i see a lot of flops with initiative, bet 3 streets (both value and bluff) much more often than your average 2/5 reg (but still know how to check post) and use my image to get max value as much as possible.

edit: i still punt off stacks more than i'd like to though...gotta stop doing that

Last edited by Dizzyqtp; 11-06-2017 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:23 PM   #19880
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

congrats on the results dizzy and thanks for posting them and your insights
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:44 PM   #19881
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Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp View Post
ty sir!

i do not study very much, no. i wish i could do more in-depth studying but i work full-time/am mostly busy on weekends. i have never had a coach.

my "studying" consist of:
- reading and posting on 2p2 (really helpful in my beginning poker career)
- clp (i don't get as much out of this as i did in my earlier days either, but i still listen to some podcasts in the car/watch the occasional video)
- watch latb streams when they are on/i am home
- putting in volume online (mostly 200nlz on ignition atm)
- discussing hands with a select few people in my pool

what sets me apart from other regs?

intangibles: i am pleasant to play with/friendly with recs, i am properly rolled, i promote straddles when i can, i rarely/don't tilt, i show my hand first, i will drink a beer at times at the table, avoid strat talk, etc. basically do everything and anything i can to promote a good environment at the table.
(aka anyone who hasn't read DGAF's thread should - this stuff matters!)

tangibles: i think i play in a sweet spot between the nit/tag regs and the maniacs - i see a lot of flops with initiative, bet 3 streets (both value and bluff) much more often than your average 2/5 reg (but still know how to check post) and use my image to get max value as much as possible.
thanks for answering man, making 100k+ with poker being a casual/part time is very impressive, hope you keep crushing. there is indeed lots of value into actually being fun at the table (both for you as a person and for the game). this is where i think being a casual gives you an edge, being there because you want to be there and not to pay the bills makes a huge difference.

huge respect, good luck
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:07 PM   #19882
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I have tremendous respect for you honest evaluation of your poker game. Most players don't have that, and that's why they continue to lose. I can tell you have a lot of potential. My average flop lead size is 2/3 pot. You want to milk value with a reasonable sizing if you have a TPGK+ type hand, as well as have a sufficient sizing to get secondpair- to fold to barrels when you flop a high equity hand like a straight/flush draw. PM me if you want tips/help.
Chumbardo. I really appreciate your response and willingness to aide in my growth. I'm new to the site and I'm not quite sure how to message. I would definitely like to pick your brain on a few subjects if you don't mind messaging me first or just emailing me directly not sure if that's allowed. Shouldz1317@gmail.com
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:13 PM   #19883
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp View Post
2,000 hour post:

Graph: https://imgur.com/h7UebId
What app is this graph in dizzy?

Also wrt PLO... I was a decent winner in HU and 6m PLO online pre BF. Live PLO is a totally different ball game and it takes a ridiculously long time to determine if you are a winner let alone get any kind of confidence interval on a winrate. the 5/5 and below PLO games are so slow.

Last edited by CHICKSDIGLONGBALL; 11-06-2017 at 07:16 PM. Reason: PLO
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:15 PM   #19884
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Originally Posted by feel wrath View Post
congrats on the results dizzy and thanks for posting them and your insights
Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke View Post
thanks for answering man, making 100k+ with poker being a casual/part time is very impressive, hope you keep crushing. there is indeed lots of value into actually being fun at the table (both for you as a person and for the game). this is where i think being a casual gives you an edge, being there because you want to be there and not to pay the bills makes a huge difference.

huge respect, good luck
Ty guys really appreciate it and more than happy to share my thoughts
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:15 PM   #19885
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What app is this graph in dizzy?
Excel
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:02 PM   #19886
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Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp View Post
ty sir!

i do not study very much, no. i wish i could do more in-depth studying but i work full-time/am mostly busy on weekends. i have never had a coach.

my "studying" consist of:
- reading and posting on 2p2 (really helpful in my beginning poker career)
- clp (i don't get as much out of this as i did in my earlier days either, but i still listen to some podcasts in the car/watch the occasional video)
- watch latb streams when they are on/i am home
- putting in volume online (mostly 200nlz on ignition atm)
- discussing hands with a select few people in my pool

what sets me apart from other regs?

intangibles: i am pleasant to play with/friendly with recs, i am properly rolled, i promote straddles when i can, i rarely/don't tilt, i show my hand first, i will drink a beer at times at the table, avoid strat talk, etc. basically do everything and anything i can to promote a good environment at the table.
(aka anyone who hasn't read DGAF's thread should - this stuff matters!)

tangibles: i think i play in a sweet spot between the nit/tag regs and the maniacs - i see a lot of flops with initiative, bet 3 streets (both value and bluff) much more often than your average 2/5 reg (but still know how to check post) and use my image to get max value as much as possible.

edit: i still punt off stacks more than i'd like to though...gotta stop doing that
Good stuff dizzy - also sweet results
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:20 PM   #19887
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Very nice Dizzy.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:59 PM   #19888
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Originally Posted by Shouldz14 View Post
I've been on quite a cold streak as of lately like busting the last 4-5 times I've played. Is this normal or am I just not as good as I think haha.
It's not necessarily abnormal, but you definitely aren't very good and thinking you are is detrimental to improving your game. Confidence is good, but it's also one of the main reasons there are so many terrible players.

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They're broke.
I feel like your response is tongue and cheek yet serious. It's not true though. Some of the biggest winners in Los Angeles and Dallas are very loose players. I'd believe that is likely the case in the T/20+ Vegas games too but I don't have enough data to say for sure.
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:03 AM   #19889
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Great job, Dizzy. You're an inspiration.
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:09 AM   #19890
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Originally Posted by tellypl View Post
Good stuff dizzy - also sweet results
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Originally Posted by Sol Reader View Post
Very nice Dizzy.
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Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer View Post
Great job, Dizzy. You're an inspiration.
Tyty
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:07 AM   #19891
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I feel like your response is tongue and cheek yet serious. It's not true though. Some of the biggest winners in Los Angeles and Dallas are very loose players. I'd believe that is likely the case in the T/20+ Vegas games too but I don't have enough data to say for sure.
I can't claim to know about all the crushers, but I've heard from good sources that some of those legendary LAGs in those games are basically just spots in reg linesup but they make up a lot of the EV with some other intangible edges so they're not absolutely guzzling. Others have adapted to playing a lot tighter. Not to drop names since this is just hearsay but a few of the very well known LAGs on 2+2 fall under the former category.

Yeah all the really good regs are capable of turning it up and being super aggro in the right games to be aggro in, no doubt about THAT, but the majority of their play is going to be fairly reasonable.

Like, as long as we accept that opening A5s and other suited aces UTG isn't "super loose" you get me, I just mean their vpips will still fall under 30, and probably under 25, otherwise we might just have a different definition of LAG. Certainly "raising any 2 in this spot preflop" frequencies should be very close to 0 from good regs these days, whereas back in the day lags will just do whatever in some spots because people play so poorly against it.
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:17 AM   #19892
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Congratulations on your awesome results Dizzy, I wish I were as good a player as you my friend.
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:35 AM   #19893
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I can't claim to know about all the crushers, but I've heard from good sources that some of those legendary LAGs in those games are basically just spots in reg linesup but they make up a lot of the EV with some other intangible edges so they're not absolutely guzzling. Others have adapted to playing a lot tighter. Not to drop names since this is just hearsay but a few of the very well known LAGs on 2+2 fall under the former category.
I'm sure that is the case. I certainly wouldn't advocate playing LAG in a lineup full of strong TAGs. If skill level is equal then playing a tighter range of hands is a tremendous advantage. My assertion is that there are many fishy lineups even in the higher stakes games...particularly in places like LA and Dallas where one can benefit from playing a wider range of hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Reader View Post
Yeah all the really good regs are capable of turning it up and being super aggro in the right games to be aggro in, no doubt about THAT, but the majority of their play is going to be fairly reasonable.

Like, as long as we accept that opening A5s and other suited aces UTG isn't "super loose" you get me, I just mean their vpips will still fall under 30, and probably under 25, otherwise we might just have a different definition of LAG. Certainly "raising any 2 in this spot preflop" frequencies should be very close to 0 from good regs these days, whereas back in the day lags will just do whatever in some spots because people play so poorly against it.
A LAG should generally be under 30 VPIP even in 6max. If someone were to play the very wide range of every pair, every broadway and every suited holding (includes 83s, 72s, K2s, J5s, etc) from every position their VPIP would only be 38.5%. Of course in real life their VPIP would be lower than that because action will often dictate that they fold preflop and good players tend to remove weaker holdings from their ranges when out of position.

There are poker tables that exist at every level of live poker where multiple players are playing virtually any 2 cards. Playing a loose yet reasonable range can be very profitable in games like this.
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:44 AM   #19894
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It's not necessarily abnormal, but you definitely aren't very good and thinking you are is detrimental to improving your game. Confidence is good, but it's also one of the main reasons there are so many terrible players.
As I stated in later posts, I know I have ALOT to do get better. I am confident I'm better than the averAge joe. After reading and and studying up, looking back on those sessions, quite a few of those bets I had probably could have been avoided if I had played them different or not at all due to my position. I just joined this forum because I have no one to discuss these things with to try and improve. And Before I'd get mad and say what s**t luck I had, but now realizing that it probably was how I played l. As well as the fact that you can play a hand perfectly, it just sometimes doesn't fall your way.
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:50 AM   #19895
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Originally Posted by Shouldz14 View Post
As I stated in later posts, I know I have ALOT to do get better. I am confident I'm better than the averAge joe. After reading and and studying up, looking back on those sessions, quite a few of those bets I had probably could have been avoided if I had played them different or not at all due to my position. I just joined this forum because I have no one to discuss these things with to try and improve. And Before I'd get mad and say what s**t luck I had, but now realizing that it probably was how I played l. As well as the fact that you can play a hand perfectly, it just sometimes doesn't fall your way.
It's not hard to be better than an average low stakes player. The challenge is being so much better than the entire rest of the table (maybe less one person) so you can make a decent hourly after rake.

If you're only an above-average player you're losing money.

Long way to go.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:00 AM   #19896
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp View Post
ty sir!

i do not study very much, no. i wish i could do more in-depth studying but i work full-time/am mostly busy on weekends. i have never had a coach.

my "studying" consist of:
- reading and posting on 2p2 (really helpful in my beginning poker career)
- clp (i don't get as much out of this as i did in my earlier days either, but i still listen to some podcasts in the car/watch the occasional video)
- watch latb streams when they are on/i am home
- putting in volume online (mostly 200nlz on ignition atm)
- discussing hands with a select few people in my pool

what sets me apart from other regs?

intangibles: i am pleasant to play with/friendly with recs, i am properly rolled, i promote straddles when i can, i rarely/don't tilt, i show my hand first, i will drink a beer at times at the table, avoid strat talk, etc. basically do everything and anything i can to promote a good environment at the table.
(aka anyone who hasn't read DGAF's thread should - this stuff matters!)

tangibles: i think i play in a sweet spot between the nit/tag regs and the maniacs - i see a lot of flops with initiative, bet 3 streets (both value and bluff) much more often than your average 2/5 reg (but still know how to check post) and use my image to get max value as much as possible.

edit: i still punt off stacks more than i'd like to though...gotta stop doing that
TBH, based on my experience playing a lot of 2/5 and knowing a lot of 2/5 players, your study-list is what sets you way apart and your stated intangibles dont affect your win-rate as much as we'd like to think. you said you dont study much but i think relative to other regs, you do it more than you think. but i guess no one should ever think they study enough, you should always think you can do more.

i know good players who dont do any of the things you stated. they just watch poker on youtube for like 20 minutes/week and say with a straight face that they do a lot of studying. i just want to slap them and be like no you ****ing dont
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:45 AM   #19897
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Originally Posted by Chicagodude View Post
Congratulations on your awesome results Dizzy, I wish I were as good a player as you my friend.
thanks man!

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TBH, based on my experience playing a lot of 2/5 and knowing a lot of 2/5 players, your study-list is what sets you way apart and your stated intangibles dont affect your win-rate as much as we'd like to think. you said you dont study much but i think relative to other regs, you do it more than you think. but i guess no one should ever think they study enough, you should always think you can do more.

i know good players who dont do any of the things you stated. they just watch poker on youtube for like 20 minutes/week and say with a straight face that they do a lot of studying. i just want to slap them and be like no you ****ing dont
yeah i think this is a fair assessment - even though i don't specifically sit down and devote time to studying i am thinking about poker a lot and try to squeeze in as much learning as i can with the time i have. i think i do enough to be very successful at the 2/5 level but still wish i could do more as i have my sights set on being successful in bigger games.

i will concede that the intangibles i mentioned (other than being properly rolled/not tilting) are definitely more relevant at T/T where there are days the game will not go if I can't get (the right) people to play, where at 2/5 there will always be games. however - these things still do go a long way even in a 1/2; 1/3; or 2/5 game and i am tired of seeing nit regs actively making games worse.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:13 AM   #19898
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I would say that youre both right. You cant necessarily make the games better by being extra polite or showing your hand first and that kind of stuff...but you can definitely make the games worse by being a jackass, talking detailed strategy at the table, berating the fish and that kind of thing.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:16 PM   #19899
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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
I'm sure that is the case. I certainly wouldn't advocate playing LAG in a lineup full of strong TAGs. If skill level is equal then playing a tighter range of hands is a tremendous advantage. My assertion is that there are many fishy lineups even in the higher stakes games...particularly in places like LA and Dallas where one can benefit from playing a wider range of hands.



A LAG should generally be under 30 VPIP even in 6max. If someone were to play the very wide range of every pair, every broadway and every suited holding (includes 83s, 72s, K2s, J5s, etc) from every position their VPIP would only be 38.5%. Of course in real life their VPIP would be lower than that because action will often dictate that they fold preflop and good players tend to remove weaker holdings from their ranges when out of position.

There are poker tables that exist at every level of live poker where multiple players are playing virtually any 2 cards. Playing a loose yet reasonable range can be very profitable in games like this.

Yeah I mean it seems like we're not disagreeing or anything, but in my mind what you're suggesting isn't really laggy per se, it's just good adjusting poker. There are definitely a few players well known for "playing spots instead of playing hands" and vpipping hands they're not supposed to, and they can't do that profitably anymore.

30 vpip is fairly laggy, but like 20-25 isn't particularly weird, just someone who's expanding range a little. Of course the vpip is not the greatest gauge either since you expand a lot if someone starts limping, but say, someone who opens 22+ A2s+ 79s+ UTG would not in my mind be a LAG, even if those ranges aren't GTO. Those ranges are fairly playable in most average 5/10 live games, but yeah these ranges, even, are bordering on spewing on a table filled with good regs (but like the hands from that range that don't make money wouldn't be losing a lot of money, like, 22 is never gonna be AWFUL compared to 55, nor is 79s much worse than T9s, the way people opening A6o in the HJ and stuff is.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:34 PM   #19900
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@ dizzy: very nice results. Congrats! You play $200nl online (and I assume you win or else you wouldn't bother playing) yet you rarely study? I thought that was pretty much unheard of at a level this high.
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