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Old 10-30-2017, 11:46 PM   #19826
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

1) Live is way softer than online

2) Vegas is not a good spot to grind Live low-stakes, though still better than LA for anything below 5/10, due to buy-in structures in LA.

3) 1/3 is still lol-easy, though I would't got o Vegas to play it. If that's your game, play somewhere obscure with a small enough market that grinders don't flock there, like Council Bluffs Iowa. If you want consistent 2/5+ though, you'll likely have to go to a bigger market.

4) as far as the bigger markets, Florida is still a gold mine, just not an undiscovered one. MD Live and Nat Harbor both good too. Parx wasn't bad, and was very soft at 1/2, but tougher at 2/5, ime. Borg is fine, in my very limited experience, but LOLAtlanticCityaments. Foxwoods has a nitty reputation, though I can't speak from experience.

5) I am not a full-time player, so can't speak to this. Rumor indicates that a daytime schedule is possible, but you'll miss the juiciest games, so your winrate will take a hit.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:15 AM   #19827
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Hi there thanks for that response. yes i agree live is way softer online no matter what. However im just curious if playing a solid abc is that profitable anymore. For example, you can't really make much profit playing solid abc online in online tournaments.


Yes i heard vegas isn't that good to play low stakes. However the expenses are very low for that.


When you say 2/5+... the markets are.... vegas...mgm.. maryland
live...borgata...parx...florida...?


Is it even possible to play live poker and find an apartment or room where you do not need a car to drive to the casino? And before anyone mentions why... i never learn to drive a car as im from a city where almost everyone used public transportation.


Thus like near borgata, md live, mgm? I heard in vegas... there are very few options because you need a car which is an issue for me as i never learned to drive etc. And even if i did... i do find driving to the casino a bit annoying since when i play online... well you just play like that if you know what i mean. But if you could just walk there or take a short bus ride etc... then would be great. Does anyone know about this? Back then when i played at borgata and played 1/2nl for fun... i usually got free rooms but that was for a few days only. So curious how it would be possible to find a place where you can get to the casino quickly etc.


Thanks all.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:28 AM   #19828
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You really have to play a mostly sold ABC have to win 2/5 n below.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:42 AM   #19829
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There's a decent amount of poker in and around Detroit. Consistent $2/5+ action, including PLO. Not sure how easy it would be to live near the casino without a car though ... some of those neighborhoods are rough.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:50 AM   #19830
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2/5+ the markets are Vegas, LA, Bay Area, Tampa, Miami, DC Area, Philadelphia, Hammond, Atlantic City, Arizona, Foxwoods, Winstar, and potentially a couple other markets as well. Just get the Bravo Poker app and look to see what runs at various times during the week.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:54 AM   #19831
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Detroit may run 2/5 often but at this moment they have 0 games running. This is the slowest time of the week, but still I personally wouldn't want to go fulltime to a market that doesn't have 2/5 running 24/7 365 days a year.
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:56 AM   #19832
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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
Detroit may run 2/5 often but at this moment they have 0 games running. This is the slowest time of the week, but still I personally wouldn't want to go fulltime to a market that doesn't have 2/5 running 24/7 365 days a year.
Have you been to Detroit? The primary place to play is Motor City Casino. They have a BBJ nearing $1 million right now and there’s no way they’re not running 2/5. They’re probably packed. It’s the biggest and most action of the three rooms in Detroit, but they don’t use Bravo.

AFAIK they run 2/5 all the time, even when the BBJ is not sky high.
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Old 10-31-2017, 02:06 AM   #19833
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I have confirmed that Motor City Casino is running 3 2/5 games right now. So definitely move to Detroit. You can buy a really nice house for dirt cheap there.
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:08 AM   #19834
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If these 2/5 crushers are crushing their games, then by definition they are not way too loose. They are playing the proper way to crush their games. Unless you think they would be crushing even more if they tightened up some, but I doubt that since they need to be in as many hands as possible agsinst these people that you say are so awful.

These same 2/5 crushers are probably smart enough to tighten up as much as needed if they played a different or higher stakes game where playing looser doesnt work as well. But then all you have is a higher stakes nit fest waiting for some whale to wonder in, which is exactly what Avaritia just described.
If higher stakes are nothing but nitfests, why don't $2/5 crushers move up and make everyone fold with all their skills?

Sounds easy according to you.

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Old 10-31-2017, 08:37 AM   #19835
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Yea, the morons that run MCC don't have a Bravo system, so out of towners don't even know that they exist. Room has been packed 24/7 for nearly a year with their gigantic BBJ growing. For the amount of money you'd need to buy a house in LA you can buy a house and build a moat in Detroit.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:22 AM   #19836
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If higher stakes are nothing but nitfests, why don't $2/5 crushers move up and make everyone fold with all their skills?

Sounds easy according to you.

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Ive never played 10/25. Im just comparing your description of 2/5 games in which you say even the best players are way too loose (which I disagree with) and Avaritias description of 10/25 in which he says most games are surprisingly nitty.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:47 AM   #19837
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If higher stakes are nothing but nitfests, why don't $2/5 crushers move up and make everyone fold with all their skills?

Sounds easy according to you.
Look, I was obviously speaking in hyperbole but you yourself have come into chat countless times talking about sh***y regs and mega whales. I think you play 10/10 yes? You deep down know exactly what I am talking about.

I think you know outside of major metropolises there just arent going to be many "world class" players in a game. It just doesnt exist. To answer your question, it is more profitable to play in a game where my 20bb 3bet goes 5 ways with 2k effective stacks than it is to try and pound nits at a 9 handed table that are sitting on slightly larger stacks. I have no idea why no one else realizes this.

If you disagree, I suggest you peruse brick and mortar or poker atlas and find games that dream crusher doesnt know exist. There are quite a few of them.

Quote:
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Detroit may run 2/5 often but at this moment they have 0 games running. This is the slowest time of the week, but still I personally wouldn't want to go fulltime to a market that doesn't have 2/5 running 24/7 365 days a year.
This is wrong and demonstrates how not to find games if you truly are scouring locations. This type of thinking is likely one of the main reasons I can play in a 10/25 game with no world class players.

Ive played 2500 hours. I know about these things.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:20 AM   #19838
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This is -EV for life, even if +EV for poker. If you have a job and a wife and kids, one night of poker/week is probably your cap, maybe two every so often. If you have a job and a wife but no kids, two nights of poker/week is probably your cap.

Problem with more playing is usually one of two things happens:
1. The Mrs. is worried, rightly or wrongly, about the gambling/money aspects of you playing so much.
2. The Mrs. resents the lack of time spent with her.

I'm a winning player with a very good job and a wife and two kids. I play once/week, every so often twice/week, and then every night on the rare occasions my wife and kids are out of town. I've been doing this for 7 years now with no blow back. Any more my wife would rightfully be annoyed I'm spending time at poker instead of with her, especially because she wants to do stuff at night too. This is true even though I generally make money playing poker and I can afford to lose money at it anyway.
thank you sir appreciate the insight
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:15 PM   #19839
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thank you sir appreciate the insight
I like how you instantly gravitated towards the answer you were wanting to hear.

It's about your goals in life, so if you were looking just to play once a week and possibly make a bit of money but have some fun either way, then why even ask?

I agree that it's not optimal for your immediate happiness to sacrifice social/family life, but thats the same reality for people who work multiple jobs. If you want to accelerate your financial situation then its what you have to do, if you don't care about that and are content where you are, then this obviously isn't an issue.

My goal is to work my ass off and be miserable for a few years so that I can be way happier in the long-run. To each their own.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:39 PM   #19840
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I like how you instantly gravitated towards the answer you were wanting to hear.

It's about your goals in life, so if you were looking just to play once a week and possibly make a bit of money but have some fun either way, then why even ask?

I agree that it's not optimal for your immediate happiness to sacrifice social/family life, but thats the same reality for people who work multiple jobs. If you want to accelerate your financial situation then its what you have to do, if you don't care about that and are content where you are, then this obviously isn't an issue.

My goal is to work my ass off and be miserable for a few years so that I can be way happier in the long-run. To each their own.
To each his own, but this is much more complicated when you have a family. In particular, no matter how good you are at poker, it's unlikely that your significant other is going to view it the same as a second job.

In most relationships, you make implicit or explicit compromises about how you spend your time. You're going to have work time, shared time and "me" time. Your SO is likely to give you much more leeway for work time than "me" time, and it likely that their going to put poker in the "me" time bucket, not the work time bucket. That can be addressed, but it's difficult. I've made good money playing poker, but in the context of my relationship it's still clearly "me" time, which means I have to fit it in among work, family etc.

Note that poker isn't the only thing that is hard to characterize here. I take a client out to a Yankees game and will view that as work time. My wife sees me going out to a baseball game, eating, getting drinks, getting home late, etc., and characterize it more as "me" time. That's not crazy. I see her volunteer at something for the kids' school, and see that as something she doesn't need to do but chooses to do, and think of it as "me" time. She'll see it as an integral part of raising the kids and think of it as work. These things need to be navigated, but it's not very easy to get someone else to view something that had been a hobby as becoming work, especially when the financial rewards are not immediately apparent and may never come.
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:12 PM   #19841
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I'm with MIB all the way on this one.

"Happy wife, happy life" is a pretty good way of looking at things (even from a purely selfish point of view), so you'll probably want to fit poker into your life accordingly if you value the relationship (and even moreso if you have kids).

My wife doesn't even care if I win money playing poker (ok, I guess she might care if I lost *a lot* of money to the point it interfered with our finances). The argument that you could perhaps make 2x or 5x or 10x the amount of $$$ (i.e. to bring it back to this thread: increase your winrate by playing at peak times, etc.) is pretty much a moot point, especially if it interferes with the family.

GgoodluckG
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:29 PM   #19842
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To each his own, but this is much more complicated when you have a family. In particular, no matter how good you are at poker, it's unlikely that your significant other is going to view it the same as a second job.



In most relationships, you make implicit or explicit compromises about how you spend your time. You're going to have work time, shared time and "me" time. Your SO is likely to give you much more leeway for work time than "me" time, and it likely that their going to put poker in the "me" time bucket, not the work time bucket. That can be addressed, but it's difficult. I've made good money playing poker, but in the context of my relationship it's still clearly "me" time, which means I have to fit it in among work, family etc.



Note that poker isn't the only thing that is hard to characterize here. I take a client out to a Yankees game and will view that as work time. My wife sees me going out to a baseball game, eating, getting drinks, getting home late, etc., and characterize it more as "me" time. That's not crazy. I see her volunteer at something for the kids' school, and see that as something she doesn't need to do but chooses to do, and think of it as "me" time. She'll see it as an integral part of raising the kids and think of it as work. These things need to be navigated, but it's not very easy to get someone else to view something that had been a hobby as becoming work, especially when the financial rewards are not immediately apparent and may never come.


As a married man and father with a nonpoker playing wife, I completely agree with this.
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Old 10-31-2017, 02:04 PM   #19843
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These things need to be navigated, but it's not very easy to get someone else to view something that had been a hobby as becoming work, especially when the financial rewards are not immediately apparent and may never come.
I was disagreeing with your post until this part, now I'm on board. I suppose I was having trouble objectively viewing the argument from my own perspective as opposed to all of you. That's a very fair point.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:15 PM   #19844
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And thanks to everyone, not just MIB on helping me with this. I definitely agree that it's about finding that balance between work/family/me time and as of now I think once a week is about right. Twice a week occasionally.

Also - since I'm not relying on this professionally, as much as I would love to play 4 times on the week and grind Fri & Sat nights, I think it's just too difficult to make it happen.

What I can do is put in as much time away from the tables so I maximize the times when I do.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:35 PM   #19845
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@TPTK77 - 1. Separate your poker bankroll from other monies. 2. Share some of your winnings with wife and family eg, jewellery for the wife, upgraded TV for all, theme park trips for the kids etc.

If everybody is getting something out of your hobby, you could turn resentment (or future resentment) into encouragement.
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Old 11-01-2017, 04:57 AM   #19846
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First month in Vegas: 120 hours. Up $3,565. Including about a $1,600 downswing the second week.

Will hope to play more hours in November. It’s oddly more difficult to put in an 8 hour session. I am sure I will adjust as time goes on.


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Old 11-01-2017, 07:24 AM   #19847
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First month in Vegas: 120 hours. Up $3,565. Including about a $1,600 downswing the second week.

Will hope to play more hours in November. It’s oddly more difficult to put in an 8 hour session. I am sure I will adjust as time goes on.


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1/2?
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:28 AM   #19848
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1/2?


Yes


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Old 11-01-2017, 08:47 AM   #19849
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Nice.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:56 AM   #19850
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Nice results Chip, glad to hear youre enjoying Vegas and got off to a good start resultswise.

I am coming out to Vegas during next week, so i like to hear that its value in the games
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