Ok sure - easy to say that theres the very occasional atypical 10/25 game like that. But any of us that have played a decent amount of poker understand how the ecosystem works. Anywhere there's big money to be made, big time players follow. People like money and try to acquire it. If there was ever a 10/25 game that you are profitable in, word will get around and studs will flock to that game asap. These things balance out.

Ha, so I had my biggest downswing at 1/3 NL at about the ~1800 hr mark, where I booked a fun little 3-7 stretch for -$2866 (955bbs).

Now 1800 hours later, I've currently done the *exact* same thing; another fun little 3-7 stretch, for exactly -$2866 (lol, to the *exact* dollar, for realz).

Gwillgofortherecordtonight!gogogo!G

It's funny to sit in the middle of the year and be like "Even if I break even for the next 150 hours, I'm still going to have a $50/hour winrate that is pretty good!", then 150 hours go by and you've been breakeven and your winrate hits $50/hour and you don't feel like playing anymore cause you can't win.

lol niceguy22, you think people are going to fly around the country and move states to play in a 10/25 NL game that runs 1-2 times a week? Sure, it happens, but to think that theres a giant pool of mid/high stakes players just waiting for the opportunity to uproot their entire life for a weekly game is silly.

When did I say they would fly around the country and move states? I just said that people will generally gravitate to where the money is, which is obvious.

I won't pursue it in this thread (because it isn't the thread for it), but this is more-or-less the biggest concept I'm attempting to address with my overall strategy (and I may be going about things the wrong way, I'm not 100% sure). It's also by far the most important one because (a) no other pots other than these matter and (b) these are the most common pots in my game (i.e. multiway raised).

Gthisforumisterriblylackinginthisregards,imoG

Hey All - I thought I'd put this here rather than create its own thread. I'm a casual recreational player whose played a lot during college and is trying to put more hours in part time after work/weekends etc. I'm trying to ultimately get this to be some side income, but I understand that requires putting in the hours...

I've got a few questions:
- Being a part time job, how many hours do you guys put in per week/month on the grind? I tend to only be able to find 1-2 days a week usually after work from 7pm-midnight. Weekends are more ideal for grinding, but it's tough finding hours when you have weekend plans with the wife & friends. I'm curious if most of you guys play weeknights only or only weekends, and for the # of hours.

- How many buy-ins do you guys bring with you? at 1/3NL i'm bringing about $600, but I know I should bring more like $1k each trip.

- How do you segregate funds from poker/life? Of course it's easier said than done, but I find that when I'm losing I think about what I could have used this money for etc. Obviously it was a lot easier for me when playing online back in the day. I'm properly rolled and can afford the swings at 1/3NL, it's just something mentally I need to get better at.

Thanks all for your help!
Chris

I think if you really wanted to excel you'd have to accept some time away from the wife/kids for a while. I don't have a family, but I basically sacrificed any/all social life for a good while to grind the hell out of weekends. This isn't quite the same thing but yeah.

Hours you play is completely subjective in your situation. You have no requirement to make enough money to sustain yourself. Play the most hours you can and still have enough time to devote to the rest of your life.

I like to have at least 3 buy-ins. It's rare for me to lose 2, and I almost never lose 3. The most I've ever lost was 550 BBs in a 150BB max game, and I think I was drinking IIRC.

I think you just have to get used to the swings. I don't consciously or physically segregate my poker funds from my other money, and winning/losing at poker has little to no effect on my life in the short run.

I don't know if never losing more then 3 buy ins is that much of a brag. If you're playing THAT low of variance style then you're clearly not booking any massive wins either.

This is -EV for life, even if +EV for poker. If you have a job and a wife and kids, one night of poker/week is probably your cap, maybe two every so often. If you have a job and a wife but no kids, two nights of poker/week is probably your cap.

Problem with more playing is usually one of two things happens:
1. The Mrs. is worried, rightly or wrongly, about the gambling/money aspects of you playing so much.
2. The Mrs. resents the lack of time spent with her.

I'm a winning player with a very good job and a wife and two kids. I play once/week, every so often twice/week, and then every night on the rare occasions my wife and kids are out of town. I've been doing this for 7 years now with no blow back. Any more my wife would rightfully be annoyed I'm spending time at poker instead of with her, especially because she wants to do stuff at night too. This is true even though I generally make money playing poker and I can afford to lose money at it anyway.

I don't come here to brag, nor do I claim that I play an optimal style. I'm just sharing information from my live results.

In 181 sessions of 1/2, these are the number of sessions falling within given parameters:

<= -800: 4
<= -600: 10
<= -400: 22
<= -200: 42
>= 200: 69
>= 400: 40
>= 600: 23
>= 800: 12

Worst session was -1100 and best was +2241

Now in 296 sessions of 2/5:

<= -2000: 2
<= -1500: 11
<= -1000: 30
<= -500: 64
>= 500: 98
>= 1000: 56
>= 1500: 22
>= 2000: 11

My worst session was -2155 and my best was +4822.

Most of the sessions where I lost >300BBs were not 100BB cap games, so it was not 3 buy-ins. I do not have a stop loss, but it's possible I choose to quit sooner if I'm losing, giving me less of a chance to have even greater losses. Also, many of my sessions are 200BB cap games, and it's harder to get stacked there. I've still have multiple -1400BB downswings.

Hey all like an opinion on this. I play mostly mttsng and low and some midstakes online tourney on stars as i relocated a while back.


Woudl you say playing live poker at the 1/3 or 2/5 stakes is probably softer than playing online? I play on stars outside the us and as you know games are very bad online.


The last time i played live poker was in vegas in 2012 or so for about 3 months. I had 8bb/hr winrate at 1/3nl. I recalled back in 2012, the games were decent but i mostly played 1/3nl.


Is the situation in vegas much worst in terms of poker?


Are 1/3nl games bad as well? Assuming you are a solid abc player, im wondering if the games are still tough now. I mean i heard dario minieri is grinding 1/2 and 1/3 in vegas.


Im also curious but what location would be best to play live poker at now? Is it vegas or is it on the east coast? I heard a while back poker is very soft in florida but of course games got harder. But i heard mgm national harbor is pretty good and maryland live is okay? I also read that parx is probably the worst place to play? I assume borgata is pretty horrible right? I recalled many years ago playing 1/2nl at borgata and well many of the players were regs there.


However do most of you agree live poker beats online poker? Online is so dry but the other thing is i play mttsng and low/mid stakes tournaments etc. But the issue with playing live poker is you cant really play good hours right? Im curious if anyone plays live poker full time and actually plays a daytime schedule. Like 10am-6pm or something like that. But that basically is not possible right? Thus you basically have to play on the weekends? The issue with online poker and tournaments is your basically are grinding the entire day etc. But with cash... you can leave anytime which is a benefit. But the negative about playing live poker is getting to the casino. its not like you can just walk there etc.


Curious about people opinion on this. Do most of you who play live just do not like online anymore? Of course the options in the us are pretty limited.

1) Live is way softer than online

2) Vegas is not a good spot to grind Live low-stakes, though still better than LA for anything below 5/10, due to buy-in structures in LA.

3) 1/3 is still lol-easy, though I would't got o Vegas to play it. If that's your game, play somewhere obscure with a small enough market that grinders don't flock there, like Council Bluffs Iowa. If you want consistent 2/5+ though, you'll likely have to go to a bigger market.

4) as far as the bigger markets, Florida is still a gold mine, just not an undiscovered one. MD Live and Nat Harbor both good too. Parx wasn't bad, and was very soft at 1/2, but tougher at 2/5, ime. Borg is fine, in my very limited experience, but LOLAtlanticCityaments. Foxwoods has a nitty reputation, though I can't speak from experience.

5) I am not a full-time player, so can't speak to this. Rumor indicates that a daytime schedule is possible, but you'll miss the juiciest games, so your winrate will take a hit.

Hi there thanks for that response. yes i agree live is way softer online no matter what. However im just curious if playing a solid abc is that profitable anymore. For example, you can't really make much profit playing solid abc online in online tournaments.


Yes i heard vegas isn't that good to play low stakes. However the expenses are very low for that.


When you say 2/5+... the markets are.... vegas...mgm.. maryland
live...borgata...parx...florida...?


Is it even possible to play live poker and find an apartment or room where you do not need a car to drive to the casino? And before anyone mentions why... i never learn to drive a car as im from a city where almost everyone used public transportation.


Thus like near borgata, md live, mgm? I heard in vegas... there are very few options because you need a car which is an issue for me as i never learned to drive etc. And even if i did... i do find driving to the casino a bit annoying since when i play online... well you just play like that if you know what i mean. But if you could just walk there or take a short bus ride etc... then would be great. Does anyone know about this? Back then when i played at borgata and played 1/2nl for fun... i usually got free rooms but that was for a few days only. So curious how it would be possible to find a place where you can get to the casino quickly etc.


Thanks all.

You really have to play a mostly sold ABC have to win 2/5 n below.

There's a decent amount of poker in and around Detroit. Consistent $2/5+ action, including PLO. Not sure how easy it would be to live near the casino without a car though ... some of those neighborhoods are rough.

2/5+ the markets are Vegas, LA, Bay Area, Tampa, Miami, DC Area, Philadelphia, Hammond, Atlantic City, Arizona, Foxwoods, Winstar, and potentially a couple other markets as well. Just get the Bravo Poker app and look to see what runs at various times during the week.

Detroit may run 2/5 often but at this moment they have 0 games running. This is the slowest time of the week, but still I personally wouldn't want to go fulltime to a market that doesn't have 2/5 running 24/7 365 days a year.

Have you been to Detroit? The primary place to play is Motor City Casino. They have a BBJ nearing $1 million right now and there’s no way they’re not running 2/5. They’re probably packed. It’s the biggest and most action of the three rooms in Detroit, but they don’t use Bravo.

AFAIK they run 2/5 all the time, even when the BBJ is not sky high.

I have confirmed that Motor City Casino is running 3 2/5 games right now. So definitely move to Detroit. You can buy a really nice house for dirt cheap there.

If higher stakes are nothing but nitfests, why don't $2/5 crushers move up and make everyone fold with all their skills?

Sounds easy according to you.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Yea, the morons that run MCC don't have a Bravo system, so out of towners don't even know that they exist. Room has been packed 24/7 for nearly a year with their gigantic BBJ growing. For the amount of money you'd need to buy a house in LA you can buy a house and build a moat in Detroit.

Ive never played 10/25. Im just comparing your description of 2/5 games in which you say even the best players are way too loose (which I disagree with) and Avaritias description of 10/25 in which he says most games are surprisingly nitty.

Look, I was obviously speaking in hyperbole but you yourself have come into chat countless times talking about sh***y regs and mega whales. I think you play 10/10 yes? You deep down know exactly what I am talking about.

I think you know outside of major metropolises there just arent going to be many "world class" players in a game. It just doesnt exist. To answer your question, it is more profitable to play in a game where my 20bb 3bet goes 5 ways with 2k effective stacks than it is to try and pound nits at a 9 handed table that are sitting on slightly larger stacks. I have no idea why no one else realizes this.

If you disagree, I suggest you peruse brick and mortar or poker atlas and find games that dream crusher doesnt know exist. There are quite a few of them.

This is wrong and demonstrates how not to find games if you truly are scouring locations. This type of thinking is likely one of the main reasons I can play in a 10/25 game with no world class players.

Ive played 2500 hours. I know about these things.