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Old 09-18-2017, 08:12 AM   #19601
Blair6288
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What yas reckon of my live graph, 1100 hours of cash mainly @ 2/5. 30k profit. Plus 6k profit from tourneys

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Old 09-18-2017, 08:42 AM   #19602
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Nice recovery when you were in for 3600 at 1/2
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Old 09-22-2017, 05:12 PM   #19603
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hey all. Im just curious but do those of you who play live even play online anymore or are most of you strictly live players?


Im an american that relocated outside the us to play online but it was mostly sngs/ small stakes mtt etc and as many of you probably know, online has gotten very tough etc. Back when i was in vegas say back in 2012, i played mostly 1/3nl in vegas and i considered most of the games soft. I played mostly at 2 casinos there etc.


I assume now, the 1/3nl games are pretty bad nowadays in vegas? My winrate was something like 24/hr at 1/3nl over i believe like over 400 hours or a bit more. But since i havent played live cash since i played mostly sng and low stakes mtt online, well im sure my skills are much difference since i use small bet sizing in my format as oppose to cash where you have 100bb etc.


I'm just curious but are there players that play 1/3nl for a living and some 2/5 only when the game looks good and actually play that for a living? I know people say the goal in poker is to move up to higher stakes but as you move up, the competition gets a lot tougher. So yes it might feel bad if a person plays only 1/3nl and stays at those stakes but if the game is very little variance, i could see how someone might just want to play those stakes.

I assume most live pros who play for a living probably are 2/5nl players? Then after that its probably 5/10nl and up? But of course the issue is the player pool at 5/10nl is so small so there can't be ton of winners. And its hard to win enough money to sustain themselves at 1/2nl if say its a 200 dollar buyin. But 1/3 with a 500 max buyin, im sure there are certain players that could average 12bb/hr? Like the really good 2/5 and 5/10nl players?


Would you guys say live cash is much profitable than online sngs/tournaments especially if you play the lower stakes etc? Because even the low stakes sngs/mtts are not that soft anymore as you guys might know. And i know in american sites like WPN, people say even 50nl is reg infested and is probably the nittiest site etc.


Im curious how many players out there play 2/5nl and do it for 5+ or more years and average say at least 40k a year. I assume there are but not that many right
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:10 AM   #19604
4timmy
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hi guys... just randomly ran into this thread and figure I'd jump in to contribute. Feel free to ask me any questions.

I was a former Pokerstars SNE, and now play mainly at Winstar casino and underground Dallas games. I play mainly the 2/5 games because I'm an entrepreneur at heart, so I've never really tried to build a roll to move up because I rather invest most of my money on ideas. For a while, my bankroll never got past $5000 and I was able to make a living playing 2/5 with it while being the sole breadwinner for my family and putting my daughter through Montessori school.

I recently went busto in 2015 from the vapor business (long story) and at my lowest point in May of 2015, I was $50k in debt to friends & family from doing business, tax issues with IRS, have pending felony charges for organized crime & money laundering, and $600 cash in my hand. Luckily, I've been able to turn things around with that $600...

This year, I made the commitment to drop all ideas and businesses, and just focus on playing as much poker as I can to get out of debt and get my life back on track. My goal was 2500hrs this year. I should reach my goal, be out of debt, and have a real poker bankroll by the end of this year. (as a side note, I've recently deposited some money on Global Poker and may be putting in the rest of my time this year online instead of Live as I've been beating the 1/2 there for $5000 over 14k hands so far... too lazy to calculate BB/100)

Here are my results... one key note is that I recently went on a 20k downswing from late August to now (September) playing high stakes PLO (2/5/25 straddle), which impacted my data dramatically, I went from:

~$70/hr to current hourly
~12+ BB/hr to current
66% cash rate to current

This year's giraffe so far:


Current up to date data:


Games I play:


Hours/Months/Days I play:


And finally, some motivational stacks... The game is 2/5 with a capped Buyin of $500:





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Old 09-25-2017, 02:09 AM   #19605
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4timmy View Post
Hi guys... just randomly ran into this thread and figure I'd jump in to contribute. Feel free to ask me any questions.

I was a former Pokerstars SNE, and now play mainly at Winstar casino and underground Dallas games. I play mainly the 2/5 games because I'm an entrepreneur at heart, so I've never really tried to build a roll to move up because I rather invest most of my money on ideas. For a while, my bankroll never got past $5000 and I was able to make a living playing 2/5 with it while being the sole breadwinner for my family and putting my daughter through Montessori school.

I recently went busto in 2015 from the vapor business (long story) and at my lowest point in May of 2015, I was $50k in debt to friends & family from doing business, tax issues with IRS, have pending felony charges for organized crime & money laundering, and $600 cash in my hand. Luckily, I've been able to turn things around with that $600...

This year, I made the commitment to drop all ideas and businesses, and just focus on playing as much poker as I can to get out of debt and get my life back on track. My goal was 2500hrs this year. I should reach my goal, be out of debt, and have a real poker bankroll by the end of this year. (as a side note, I've recently deposited some money on Global Poker and may be putting in the rest of my time this year online instead of Live as I've been beating the 1/2 there for $5000 over 14k hands so far... too lazy to calculate BB/100)

Here are my results... one key note is that I recently went on a 20k downswing from late August to now (September) playing high stakes PLO (2/5/25 straddle), which impacted my data dramatically, I went from:

~$70/hr to current hourly
~12+ BB/hr to current
66% cash rate to current

This year's giraffe so far:


Current up to date data:


Games I play:


Hours/Months/Days I play:


And finally, some motivational stacks... The game is 2/5 with a capped Buyin of $500:





very impressive!! thanks for sharing! i have an almost identical overall winrate! but ive put in half as many hours as you year to date. one question i have is, do you know how the big bet/hr, std dev thing is calculated and what do they mean? ve never really bothered and have not asked anyone...
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:16 AM   #19606
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Jesus Christ... This is really a 2/5 NLH 100bb cap???
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Old 09-25-2017, 05:12 AM   #19607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4timmy View Post
Games I play:
You've put a decent number of hours at 5/T this year. Was that at Winstar or in underground games? Small sample size but you've made nearly as much playing 5/T as you've made playing 2/5 this year.

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Originally Posted by 4timmy View Post
I like this pic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Jesus Christ... This is really a 2/5 NLH 100bb cap???
Sure is.
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:23 AM   #19608
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4timmy View Post

This year's giraffe so far:


Current up to date data:

Great results man - keep crushing.

Our results are eerily similar, though a much different breakdown of games (mine also lifetime not ytd) - will be posting my updated graph in 90 more hours once I hit 2k
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:30 AM   #19609
soxfan43
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

4Timmy, what is your biggest stack in the $2/5 $500 max game?
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:37 PM   #19610
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4timmy,

Dat work ethic! Nice job
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:59 PM   #19611
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

4timmy, how would you describe your game (what makes it unique) in a few sentences.

Do you 3b more pre, barrel more post? Overbet? Or more passive? Open limp, flat call more? Etc.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:11 PM   #19612
4timmy
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Originally Posted by dayurou View Post
very impressive!! thanks for sharing! i have an almost identical overall winrate! but ive put in half as many hours as you year to date. one question i have is, do you know how the big bet/hr, std dev thing is calculated and what do they mean? ve never really bothered and have not asked anyone...
BB/hr is pretty much how many BB you've won divided by how many hours you've played.

I don't know how standard dev is calculated or what it really means. I've read up on it a bit and I think it is how much you deviate from your average. For example, if you average $50 per hour and play 10 hours, you should average $500, but if your SD is $500, then you you're usually up $1000 or even as a standard.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:13 PM   #19613
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Originally Posted by soxfan43 View Post
4Timmy, what is your biggest stack in the $2/5 $500 max game?
I think around $7500... it's by no means the biggest at Winstar as people back before Black Friday were able to build much bigger stacks since the games were a lot softer before all the internet players like me started coming to the casino.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:16 PM   #19614
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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
4timmy, how would you describe your game (what makes it unique) in a few sentences.

Do you 3b more pre, barrel more post? Overbet? Or more passive? Open limp, flat call more? Etc.
I don't have a style, but play based on observation of the table and players. If the table is loose, I tighten up and vice versa. If a player is on tilt, I try to get into more pots with them. If a player is tight, I barrel and bluff more. If a player is loose, I trap more.

I'm rarely on my phone or watching media (I sometimes read at the table), because I'm always trying to observe the table and how people are playing for the session and play off of them.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:27 PM   #19615
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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
You've put a decent number of hours at 5/T this year. Was that at Winstar or in underground games? Small sample size but you've made nearly as much playing 5/T as you've made playing 2/5 this year.
Most of my 5/10 are underground games on weeknights. I play 2/5 at Winstar mainly on the weekends now and plan to play a 20hrs+ session each time, so I hate to have to leave a 5/10 and go to 2/5 and have to reset my game/mind if the game breaks, plus 2/5 is less intensive, therefore allowing me to put in more hours. Plus I have to play tighter at 5/10 to account for the more regs and the 3betting, which makes the game less fun.

My 2/5 results should be much better (I think in the $50-55/hr) if I kept my sessions shorter to about 6-8hrs, but I'm willing to sacrifice some winrate and make it up in volume. I think it's still a net gain factoring less driving time, expenses, etc.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:31 PM   #19616
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4timmy,

Dat work ethic! Nice job
Thanks. This year and maybe next year is probably the only time I'll dedicate this much time to poker moving forward. I still rather do business.

For example, I'm starting a blog right now (www.invariance.poker) and hopefully turn it into some brand for mental game/life poker or a mental disease research business as I'm a firm believer that poker can solve a lot of mental disabilities/disease.
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:40 PM   #19617
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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Do you 3b more pre, barrel more post? Overbet? Or more passive? Open limp, flat call more? Etc.
I see you're still trying to validate the limp call strategy as the potential Holy Grail of crushing low stakes poker.
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:46 PM   #19618
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Ha, not exactly. I just wanted to lay out two extremes and see which side he leaned to. Most on this forum, and most of the strong winning players Ive seen, lean to more aggression.
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Old 09-25-2017, 05:08 PM   #19619
4timmy
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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Ha, not exactly. I just wanted to lay out two extremes and see which side he leaned to. Most on this forum, and most of the strong winning players Ive seen, lean to more aggression.
Rarely is limp/calling an optimal strategy unless you have specific reasons and reads, such as you expect an aggressive player behind you to 3bet and you do not want to play a bloated pot with a marginal hand that you want to see a flop with, or you want to disguise and trap with a strong hand.

Other than that, the saying still holds: "To the aggressor goes the pot"
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:40 AM   #19620
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4timmy View Post
Hi guys... just randomly ran into this thread and figure I'd jump in to contribute. Feel free to ask me any questions.

I was a former Pokerstars SNE, and now play mainly at Winstar casino and underground Dallas games. I play mainly the 2/5 games because I'm an entrepreneur at heart, so I've never really tried to build a roll to move up because I rather invest most of my money on ideas. For a while, my bankroll never got past $5000 and I was able to make a living playing 2/5 with it while being the sole breadwinner for my family and putting my daughter through Montessori school.

I recently went busto in 2015 from the vapor business (long story) and at my lowest point in May of 2015, I was $50k in debt to friends & family from doing business, tax issues with IRS, have pending felony charges for organized crime & money laundering, and $600 cash in my hand. Luckily, I've been able to turn things around with that $600...

This year, I made the commitment to drop all ideas and businesses, and just focus on playing as much poker as I can to get out of debt and get my life back on track. My goal was 2500hrs this year. I should reach my goal, be out of debt, and have a real poker bankroll by the end of this year. (as a side note, I've recently deposited some money on Global Poker and may be putting in the rest of my time this year online instead of Live as I've been beating the 1/2 there for $5000 over 14k hands so far... too lazy to calculate BB/100)

Here are my results... one key note is that I recently went on a 20k downswing from late August to now (September) playing high stakes PLO (2/5/25 straddle), which impacted my data dramatically, I went from:

~$70/hr to current hourly
~12+ BB/hr to current
66% cash rate to current

This year's giraffe so far:


Current up to date data:


Games I play:


Hours/Months/Days I play:


And finally, some motivational stacks... The game is 2/5 with a capped Buyin of $500:





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Old 09-26-2017, 08:46 AM   #19621
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Dont take this as me dissing you, because your results are phenomenal and you are obviously very very good. However, Ive played poker all over the country and Winstar is IMO the softest room in the Country. I lived in Dallas for most of my life and have extensive playing time at Winstar.

Again, excellent results no matter how soft the room is. Whats the most amazing is the amount of hours you put in. Sheesh!
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:44 AM   #19622
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Dont take this as me dissing you, because your results are phenomenal and you are obviously very very good. However, Ive played poker all over the country and Winstar is IMO the softest room in the Country. I lived in Dallas for most of my life and have extensive playing time at Winstar.

Again, excellent results no matter how soft the room is. Whats the most amazing is the amount of hours you put in. Sheesh!
When was it that you played a significant number of hours at Winstar?
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:46 AM   #19623
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Dont take this as me dissing you, because your results are phenomenal and you are obviously very very good. However, Ive played poker all over the country and Winstar is IMO the softest room in the Country. I lived in Dallas for most of my life and have extensive playing time at Winstar.

Again, excellent results no matter how soft the room is. Whats the most amazing is the amount of hours you put in. Sheesh!
where's your pcg update?
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:58 AM   #19624
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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
When was it that you played a significant number of hours at Winstar?
I moved away from Dallas in mid 2015. I lived there most of my adult life and played there a lot from the time it opened. When I say I played "a lot" it was nothing like the number of hours I play now because I was working full time. IMO I'm light years better than I was back then since I play so much now and I still had a win rate of about around $35/hr at 2/5 at Winstar. There were no poker apps back then (at least I didnt know about any) so my records are not detailed. I just kept track of my hours and total amount won in the notes on my phone. I'm going off of memory but i know I was mid $30s

I was in Dallas a couple months ago and played 2/5 at Winstar and was shocked at how soft it was compared to my main room here in S. Florida. Maybe it was just my table, but the I felt like it was 2006 again.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:00 AM   #19625
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where's your pcg update?
I kind of lost interest in updating it as I was on vacation for 2 1/2 weeks. My wife and I went on a road trip of the New England area and up into Canada. The trip had been planned for months, but we were lucky enough to be in Montreal when the hurricane hit.

I did play at 4 different rooms along the way so I guess Ill do an update to it soon.
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