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Old 07-12-2017, 10:02 AM   #19326
RedRock
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I feel like you are talking about Golden Nugget Lake Charles because Golden Nugget in Vegas mostly runs an uncapped 1/2 game. Anyways, if you want more info about the Winstar 1/3 game then you might be able to receive help in the Winstar thread. I do know that you can't bring your entire stack when changing tables unless your table broke.
Sorry, you are right, I was talking about GN Lake Charles. I've read the entire Winstar thread. The reason why I asked gamboolman about it is because he has played both GNLC and Winstar in the past couple weeks and I was hoping for a comparitive analysis.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:28 AM   #19327
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I'm a reg at Winstar and have played a few times at the Lake Charles GN. The Winstar 1/3 doesn't play as deep as the GN, and I will chock up the significant spew of some of the GN players to having only played there on Saturday nights. Overall, the Winstar 1/3 is a good game, especially if you play while 5/10 games are running (so the best players in the room aren't LARPing as sharks a level lower than their usual). It's a fairly weak pool and very exploitable, with a few decent players. Stacks can get moderately deep. Overall a good game, and with talk of the 1/2 being phased out, I expect it to get much weaker if the rumor is true.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:23 PM   #19328
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What's larping?
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:42 PM   #19329
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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What's larping?
Live Action Role Play
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:38 PM   #19330
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Garick is the resident LARP expert.

I can't imagine 5/T not running would have a significant effect on Winstar's 1/3. The best 2/5 players there don't play 1/3 ever. Maybe some of the best 1/3 players that like playing 2/5 at times would stay at 1/3. However, more than likely the same conditions that are causing 5/T to not run are simply making games bad across the board (ie if not many rec players showed up, then the 5/T game is less likely to run and the 1/3 game is less likely to be good).
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:03 PM   #19331
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Like Squid said and like johnny knows, stable income + working life + poker hobby is the nuts. Even if I could maintain this hourly playing full time I wouldn't want to.
Very nice DK!

And I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I've never been a full time pro, but I did toy with semi-pro for a couple of years and the grind was just too much. One day I came home and told myself I wasn't playing again until I felt like playing. What I figured would be a month or two turned into two years. I have a job I love that pays very well, and I love the people I work with. Strange thing is that my hourly as a rec player is better than it was as a grinder (about a 1000 hour sample over 5 years).
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:43 PM   #19332
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That's pretty standard actually.

As a rec player you have the luxury of being able to cherry pick the best hours, whereas a pro has to play even when the games are mediocre (well, you don't have to, but you're not going to make much per year)
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:07 PM   #19333
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:59 AM   #19334
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Very nice.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:01 AM   #19335
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Very very nice!

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Old 07-25-2017, 11:57 AM   #19336
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Very nice!

What stakes / max BI?

G60hoursbehindyouG
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:52 PM   #19337
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I really hate PLO. All of my local games are switching to it, and the spewy gambler types gravitate to it. But I'm just not rolled for it. An insistence on a $5 bring in, so that every flop is $100 and you're either in "wait and jam AAQQ pre" mode, or need to be $1k+ deep to be able to play a turn.

7 PLO BI's gone straight and goodbye July profits

:rant:

$11/hr for NLHE this year, -$6/hr for PLO/RxR.

Yuck.
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:00 PM   #19338
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
I really hate PLO. All of my local games are switching to it, and the spewy gambler types gravitate to it. But I'm just not rolled for it. An insistence on a $5 bring in, so that every flop is $100 and you're either in "wait and jam AAQQ pre" mode, or need to be $1k+ deep to be able to play a turn.

7 PLO BI's gone straight and goodbye July profits

:rant:

$11/hr for NLHE this year, -$6/hr for PLO/RxR.

Yuck.
lot of good NLHE players also gravitate towards that. it will leave the NL games very passive and weak, more than usual I mean
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:14 PM   #19339
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Yea, when I'm in a room that's running both the NLHE games are *really* soft. One of the new rooms near me has had that situation since it opened and I'm about $55/hr at NLHE there over a meaningless 70 hour sample. But the eye test of the game is great most of the time.
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:35 PM   #19340
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All of the spewy gambler types have migrated from NL to PLO at my local room too. Really making it hard for me to keep pushing off learning/playing it.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:25 PM   #19341
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Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
I really hate PLO. All of my local games are switching to it, and the spewy gambler types gravitate to it. But I'm just not rolled for it. An insistence on a $5 bring in, so that every flop is $100 and you're either in "wait and jam AAQQ pre" mode, or need to be $1k+ deep to be able to play a turn.

7 PLO BI's gone straight and goodbye July profits

:rant:

$11/hr for NLHE this year, -$6/hr for PLO/RxR.

Yuck.
you should 100% be learning PLO. I've started playing pretty heavily with all my local live degens in an online club, and everyone is awful. I VPIP 50% and am basically the tightest person playing.

Effectively, most people have gotten OK at NLHE. They know what are good hands and what are bad hands, they have at least some sense of when they're value betting and when they're bluffing, etc. They don't know these things in PLO. I was playing the other day and folded 3376ss after showing the whale next to me. He was shocked that I could fold that hand (or any hand) pre in PLO.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:25 PM   #19342
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I don't mind the idea of PLO. The game offers a lot more ways for idiots to make really big mistakes. The problem is that everyone shoveling their money in preflop isn't one of them. That's only a marginal mistake since the equities run so close that they end up basically coinflipping with each other for stacks.

The real mistakes come when people chase sucker draws or get freerolled, which requires getting to the flop or turn before the money all ends up in, which means for a $5 bring in game with idiotic preflop action you need $1k+ stacks.

PLO is a lot of fun and there's enough literature out there to get you much better than the spewy types really quickly and easily. It's the vast difference in BR requirements that are the barrier to entry IME. I get into spots where I know if I bought in for $600 I could call off $50 pre and get into a favorable spot, but I can't afford all the BI I need to miss a few times.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:51 PM   #19343
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I don't mind the idea of PLO. The game offers a lot more ways for idiots to make really big mistakes. The problem is that everyone shoveling their money in preflop isn't one of them. That's only a marginal mistake since the equities run so close that they end up basically coinflipping with each other for stacks.

The real mistakes come when people chase sucker draws or get freerolled, which requires getting to the flop or turn before the money all ends up in, which means for a $5 bring in game with idiotic preflop action you need $1k+ stacks.

PLO is a lot of fun and there's enough literature out there to get you much better than the spewy types really quickly and easily. It's the vast difference in BR requirements that are the barrier to entry IME. I get into spots where I know if I bought in for $600 I could call off $50 pre and get into a favorable spot, but I can't afford all the BI I need to miss a few times.

Fair enough on the bankroll considerations. I'm a rec player with a good job, so bankroll isn't really a concern for me at any stakes of poker I'm interested in playing. The ability to play without concern for money and to think of poker chips as just round little discs rather than something with monetary value is probably one of my key advantages over a lot of people I play with regularly.

As I detailed in BBV, I lost a $4500 pot in PLO a few weeks ago. We both got it in with Broadway (the nuts() on the turn, I had 9 outs to improve (nut flush or boat), the other guy had 3 (boat), and he binked the river. I was able to brush it off, the other guy would've had to have been done with poker for a while if he lost that hand.
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Old 07-26-2017, 12:54 AM   #19344
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Epic results
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Old 07-26-2017, 02:11 AM   #19345
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Only PLO in my town is 1/2, 5 bring in, uncapped. I buy in once in a blue moon, even the regs in that game play terrible hands, but they can all afford the $100+ to see a flop. Basically it's just when I feel like I can afford a punt.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:10 AM   #19346
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Fair enough on the bankroll considerations. I'm a rec player with a good job, so bankroll isn't really a concern for me at any stakes of poker I'm interested in playing. The ability to play without concern for money and to think of poker chips as just round little discs rather than something with monetary value is probably one of my key advantages over a lot of people I play with regularly.

As I detailed in BBV, I lost a $4500 pot in PLO a few weeks ago. We both got it in with Broadway (the nuts() on the turn, I had 9 outs to improve (nut flush or boat), the other guy had 3 (boat), and he binked the river. I was able to brush it off, the other guy would've had to have been done with poker for a while if he lost that hand.
The money doesn't bother me either. The problem is that I can't reload $2k+ a month if it goes bad, and neither can a LOT of people playing LLSNL.

Even your BBV proves my point. A $4400 pot is 22 BI for a $1/2 game. That's an entire bankroll. It 9 BI at $2/5. PLO games, even with small blinds, play significantly bigger than NLHE games. It's too easy to break players and dry up your pool playing too much PLO in smaller circles.
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:29 AM   #19347
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The money doesn't bother me either. The problem is that I can't reload $2k+ a month if it goes bad, and neither can a LOT of people playing LLSNL.

Even your BBV proves my point. A $4400 pot is 22 BI for a $1/2 game. That's an entire bankroll. It 9 BI at $2/5. PLO games, even with small blinds, play significantly bigger than NLHE games. It's too easy to break players and dry up your pool playing too much PLO in smaller circles.
Dead on. It kills everyone, even the house because it affects the longevity of the NL game.

You need huge wealth to substain it, even if it runs only 1 times a week, it will kill a healthy population very fast, remember kid, greed is bad.

player pool in my area is kinda small and I can easily think of 3 big fishes who took 6+months break last time someone ran a PLO once a week for about a month in my area... and that was just 1 table, one night a week. 500k+- population city.
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Old 07-26-2017, 07:13 AM   #19348
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So you guys are saying PLO is the devil.
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Old 07-26-2017, 07:48 AM   #19349
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Live PLO should probably just be limit preflop (or capped).
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:15 AM   #19350
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Capping it would go against the draw of the game though (pure, unabated action)

Live plo is really simple and most 1/2 & 1/3 dont have the "variance" that people constantly attribute to it. Hand select well, nut peddle, fold non nut / 8 out draws to pot sized bets, bet pot at all times with your value. Its really simple, much more simple than NL for me.

Imagine a NL game where you almost always had great odds pre to call with your pocket pairs, and every single time you flop a set you are able to get stacks in vs a straight draw. That is plo.

I do agree longterm it kills other game formats as well as player population, so it is not good for long term win rate. But short term, the win rate is most certainly higher than NL, and if you cant beat them, join them.
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