Thanks again, gl to you

Please don't borrow money at vig to play poker

ok i wont, thanks
will just grind online for now, at least i got more of a purpose now. Those games would be a good retirement from spins.

Yeah, that game sounds amazing, but I'd look for a staking deal before I'd just take out a loan. FWIW, 10BB/hr is not uncommon ITT for normal games, so that game might well be beatable for considerably more, but the swings will be brutal.

That said, I'd definitely take a 5BI shot at it, if you can afford to lose the money, because though your RoR is high, so would your chance of going robusto.

Right?!

Right!?!?!?

I kinda wish we had an easy summary page to refer to, and maybe I'm just misremembering wrongly, but I'm not sure I've ever seen someone post a non-lol sample size (2000++ hours) at 10bb/hr in this thread.

Am I wrong on this?

I recall Duke posting a pretty good giraffe, but even his hadn't reached 2000 hours (if I recall). I'm guessing Squiddy would have these type of results (but I don't actually recall seeing the exact giraffe). But as much as 10bb/hr is bandied about as being a common good live winrate, it's amazing how little I actually see evidence of that (over a significant sample size) in this thread.

Gpointmetothepost#s,imoG

It's ok, it's for another player.



GlovesAva'sambitions!seriously,goodluckandIhopeyou areabletopostconclusionsoneday!G

This clearly good from a data analysis/retention standpoint, but terrible from a 'time to input while at the table' standpoint imo.

Think about how long it would take you to type this all out on your phone mid hand. Let alone remember it if you're in the hand and having to type it out after the hand while paying attention to the hand that is currently going on to type up that one too.

This will take you FAR more time than you realize.

I already do a dumbed down version of this where I track all the hands that I play and it while it only takes a few seconds to type it into my phone, when there is action in the hand, it can take upwards of 10 seconds to type it in. This isn't even trying to write down what everyone else is doing during the hand. You're going to end up sitting on your phone the entire time I think.

This is what my output looks like:

CO: XXx, fd
HJ: QJo, fd
MP: A3o, fd
UG: J2o, fd
UT: 92o, fd
BB: Q6o, fd
SB: Q5o, fd
BT: 62s, fd
CO: ATo, rs $15 2cl, 3fl A62dxd $30 win
HJ: KTo, rs $12 1cl fd to $38 3b from bb
M1: JJo, 3b $10 ep open to $30 1cl, 2fl J74r ck $35 1cl, turn 7x donk $75 I rs AI $300 eff and mhig vs 7x
MP: Q7o, fd
UG: A9o, fd
UT: 65o, fd
BB: J6o, fd
SB: XXx, fd

This is pretty doable over the long term, esp once you get used to the short hand that you create for your self, and if you're a pretty fast typer on your phone as well. I've got >10k hands since I've started this project.
And lets you get some base level statistics on your play.

But really the key here is that getting the data that you want while still being able to track the action at the table, and you know play poker at the same time is not going to be as easy as you think.

how do you have so many frush draws with offsuit hands?

haven't used it but i am gonna try this when i have extra manies again, dunno how tedious inputting is (that's poker analytics aka the subscription live db)

I still remember M's homework thread from a couple of years ago where I tracked my hands. I could only manage it for 2 months, and only tracking $100 wins/losses, and only for myself, before giving up.

It's hard to do.

GbutgoodlucktoAva,imo,gogogo!G

Have you been hanging around with Zoltan or something?


This means...

Clear? No... ok.

Obviously, the shorthand file will have "highly compressed" information, allowing for quick entry using a smartphone interface. Presumably, this creates a file that would not be trivial to then automatically input to Excel (using Excel's standard tool set).

So if Ava wants to then spend time typing out his notes into spreadsheet form, then good for him, but I would much rather just spend a couple hours writing a python script that opens the smartphone generated shorthand file and then expand the compressed data into a form that is either directly importable to Excel (e.g. CSV) or some other database style/form that can be operated upon using a statistical package (e.g. Octave or Matlab).

Perhaps there are more efficient ways of accomplishing this. However:

...Python (running on Cygwin) is free.

...Learning Python is pretty easy starting from zero.

~~~~~

The amount of time it takes is unimportant as Ava already suggested he's only going to log a hundred or so hands a session. It doesn't have to be done immediately, so waiting until you don't have good hole cards should be fine unless Ava suddenly becomes a 75/74 LAGtard.

I'm not debating the notion of short handing this.

I'm debating how much time it will take to enter into this phone the level of detail he wants even when short handing it as much as possible.

Ha yes, quite the endeavor. FWIW it will (to start) only be 1,000 hands, of which im guessing he'll fold at least 70% of them. So thats good.

Really want to see his vpip/pfr/3b. But im tracking the entire hh so i can also eventually know his cbet % and other things like that as well if i want to. Also his sizing.

The script idea is interesting but im going for a more caveman approach. Just logging in my template and manually loading into excel. I'll snippet what I made this weekend if i get a chance. Hand# is rows and action follows columns.

Also yes, its quite hard logging hh real time. But made slightly easier that im not logging my own (gives me something to do as i fold 85% of my hands) and also you get pretty quick at it. Also i can skip hands as i chose (as long as i decide to skip prior to action)

This is for tracking someone else? Is he *that* good?

Well **** just record the HH in your note app and transcribe it later into excel. Eg

Khkd btn, 200 eff
Hj r12, CO calls, H calls, sb calls
Ttjhhs
Xx30 H r75 Ff c
2c V 100 H shoves
V calls qdqc

hopefully should have this for you in 272 hours - unless you meant 2000 hrs all at 1 stake then never mind lol

Yes.

Maybe not many good players with a lot of volume that post their stats ITT. How about this one though? Essentially winning over 17bbs/hr over 2200 hours. Winning over 20bbs/hr through 1453 hours of 1/2.

42k after 542 hours.
Most of this is 2/5, 1K max BI (running at 15.7BB/hour over 451 hours).
Some 5/10 and 10/10 (running at 7.8BB/hour over 47 hours - I made some pretty big mistakes though, so think this should be higher).
And PLO ($48/hour over 36 hours... mix of 2/2, 5/0, 5/5)

Very pleased as this all started with a single $300 BI at 1/2 back in March.

Crusher!!! Nice work!

Yeah, one stake (and perhaps even broken down between 100bb max BI games versus other, which obviously really makes a difference) would be most useful.

I mean, we've seen a handful of crushing rates of 1000 hours (Donkey comes to mind recently, yours as well if I recall). Heck, even I ran at 9.44 bb/hr over my first 2000 hours at my 1/3 NL $300 max BI game (results that I now consider almost meaningless). But where are all the 10 bb/hr over some serious hours? I'm not seeing them posted here (at least that I can recall).

GmemorychallengedG


Oooh, I forgot about wj, yes, awesome results (wish he'd post more). Still under 2000 hours though (I mean, those 1/2 results don't even equal a single year @ professional hours), and I'm also not sure about the max BI in his game.

I mean, has one single person posted a 2000+ hour winrate of 10 bb/hr at one low stakes level (max 100bb BI?) in this thread? Maybe Squiddy?

Kinda reminds me back when I was playing lol 2/4 and 4/8 Limit and posting in the Limit Live Low Stakes forum and how everyone bounced around 2 BB/hr as a good rate. ORLY? Um, no. Not remotely close. Or show me the proof.

Geveryonetoobusycrushingat15bbs/hrtobotherposting,obviouslyG

You should be! That's crazy nice work!

GG - the reason you don't see 2000 hour graphs at 10+ BB/hr is because it's incredibly difficult to do for a variety of reasons. Most people "move up" at a certain point so the stake they have the most hours at remains stagnant. Win rates theoretically decrease as you rise in stakes and frankly it's just damn hard to put in 2000 hours at a stake as a recreational player.

The nature of poker is people come and go. Look at the number of posters that seemingly disappear. I've noticed quite a bit of turnover at my primary room. Could those people have become enlightened and moved on from poker? Sure, possibly. But they could also be busto / tires of losing / came to the realization they were just a fish on a heater.

I've logged 3500+ hours since 2015 and realize it's a damn tough game and nothing about it comes easy. I made a really dumb comment in here in early 2016 when I said I thought poker was easy - yah it's easy when you're running good, but scrape away the variance and you are left with the eternal grind that is poker.

WJs sample size is over 2000 hours. Most people don't live in this weird Trooper/GG world of playing the smallest stakes for infinity. Players that are doing well tend to try to play bigger. I was already taking shots at 5/T within a few months of playing 2/5 full time.

In B4 "1/3 is the highest stakes regularly spread here"

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