But those 2 overs and back door flush and boat draws tho.


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don't forget BD straight, i'm sure he def knew what he needed

I wish he hit the bd straight instead.

What a cooler it'd be.

You don't know that $1000 being racked up is a win either

Can't count how many times I have been inadvertently needles by the cashier saying something like "Looks like you had a good day" as I cash out 3 racks and am still stuck

+ A lot

you have so many good poasts in this thread. Stated much more eloquently than I could ever attempt to do. Much respekt

This is the worst feeling. What happens to me is that I'm sitting with $800 in my 1/2 (deepstack) game, someone says something like "Looks like you're doing really well" when in reality I'm stuck $500.

+1, all of this

Also, don't scoff at $15/hr at 1/3 NL. Given the downward trending conditions in my room, I would have snap accepted $15/hr going into 2017 (and I'm a lifetime $22.20/hr); currently sitting at $12.70/hr for the year, and frankly totally ok with it.

Also, it is *not* easy to win 300bbs+. I went 13 months between having a 300bb win, then booked 7 of them last year (in 64 sessions), but haven't had a single one yet this year (in 41 sessions). Course, this will depend on your playing style, but also just plain ol' variance.

Gmostofpokerisprobablyjusttreadingwaterwaitingfort heturngoodG

Bruh ur posts have the real eloquence bc you speak teh truth when no one else will. Ur and DGAFs posts helped me alot when I was temporarily playing poker for a living.

Conversation about super sessions spurred me to look a little deeper into my data.


YTD
33 out of 46 sessions are winning
405 hours for average 8.8 per session
BB hr 7.91
Biggest win in BBs 992
Biggest loss in BBs 553

Winning sessions
13 less than 100 bbs
8 between 100 and 200 BBs
9 between 200 and 300
1 between 300 and 400
1 between 600 and 700
1 at 992

Losing sessions
5 between 200 and 300bbs
3 between 300 and 400
1 at 553
4 less than 100 bbs

Last year I played 892 hours, went 62 out of 105 sessions for average session length of 8.5, and win rate of 8.4bb per hour.

Over all lots of big winning and losing sessions, probably combination of style, game conditions and long average session length.

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Too bad PokerJournal doesn't have a filter that could break out that type of info. I might have to add it to my Excel spreadsheet and see what I come up with (although I like the yearly breakdowns as game conditions change and I think it would be difficult to add that to mine).

GcluelessstatsnoobG

I use poker income to track. Had to export to excel and play with the data to break out that way, which is why I only did it in detail for YTD and just eyeballed individual sessions for last year.

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LOL this so much.

It happens in the game too bcuz you can match 100% of bigstack and new players who sit down comment on it, not knowing I'm in for twice as much.

Add me to group loving this post. Most games I play are capped. I always buy 3x cap from cage before my session and pull chips out of my pocket anytime I'm $25 or more less than cap.

Wish there was an auto top off button for live poker 😎

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+1, lol

A couple of sessions ago there's a flop bet and I raise in seat 10. A player I've never seen before in seat 1 (so we're obstructed by the dealer) asks "how much you have behind?". I move my hands and show my remaining stack. He then asks "and what do you have in your pocket?". Um, huh? Lol, he had seen me reaching into my pockets after every hand and was assuming I was going south, when in fact I was topping up. Awkward conversation follows, although he eventually apologizes for his accusations.

GcluelessautotopoffnoobG

Call the chip runner every time you need a $25 chip to top off. Ask him to place chip on your stack

Passed 100 hours for the year with my last session. ~2bb/hour wr. Obv running above expectation. #crushing #quittingjobtoplaypokerfulltime

On pace to hit my goal of 200 hr this year, so that's a plus

All this talk about 5bb/hr being good is depressing. Obviously poker is tougher now than pre Black Friday but has anyone considered the possibility that poker might be getting softer?

Think about all the grinders going broke or realizing that if they're smart enough to grind $20/hr at 1/2 or $35/hr at 2/5 they can get an actual career with way less variance, pays more and doesn't come with social isolation? Now think about guys like Andrew Neeme and streamers promoting poker.



I'm at $26/hr with about just under 280 hours mixing 1/2 and 1/3. Obviously sample size is nothing and I'm probably running above EV. But I don't think I've gotten absurdly lucky. I think 10bb/hr is perfectly achievable with some work at 1/2 and 1/3. 2/5 not so sure that's why I was asking you guys. I'm curious what you guys think the drop in bb/hr will be moving up.

Nobody can give you a 100% correct answer as to how your win rate in BB/hr will drop as you go from 1/2 to 2/5. Based on my experience I would say it will get cut in half and possibly more.

If you can sustain 13 BB/hr at 1/2 over 1000 hours, I would set my sights on 6 BB/hr at 2/5 as an estimate and go from there.
A 10BB/h winner at 1/2 might be around 4-5BB/hr winner at 2/5

I play poker for an income generating hobby. Fortunate to have a career with benefits and tons of vacation that pays well. Would need to crush 5/10 to come close to my day job.

Couldn't imagine having to grind out 50 years of a life at live low stakes. Would suck the soul out of me.

As a low stress supplement to very early retirement, it could work for me.

My BB per hour between 1/2, 1/3 and 2/5 is about the same across 2,300 hours I've tracked, but I have to work for it at 2/5.

I'm perfectly happy making an easy 8bb at 1/2 & 1/3. Agree that higher is well within reach for those willing to work. About 70% of the time I'm playing very little attention to the table when not involved in a hand, mostly by binge watching shows on my phone. Usually have my phone propped up against my stack with ear buds in. Easily this costs me 2-5 BBs per hour, but honestly I just don't care.



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My bb/hour actually went up from ~1k hours of 1/2 compared to ~1.3k hours of 2/5

This is completely relative though. It's a combination of the fact I got significantly better throughout that time period, variance, the game played deeper, etc.

The thing with live low stakes is how valuable it is to be the best or 2nd best player at the table, compared to 4th or 5th best. So in 1/2 you can often run over basically any table because very few 1/2 pro's exist, and those that do play fairly standard and aren't going to exploit you, allowing you do get away with a lot of things that you can't in bigger games. Obviously there aren't many crushers at 2/5 either, but that's when you're first going to start to realize you have to think a bit deeper about all your lines/their lines. You start to think to yourself "wait a second... what the **** am I repping?"

So, for sure expect a bb/hour drop, but as long as you're making close to the same $/hr without massively increasing variance I'd be content with it, as you're making similar amounts while improving your play and becoming more comfortable with the larger sums of money.

I think that's a load of bs tbh. The games aren't that different. If you can crush one you can crush the other. Small difference, sure, because the level of play is marginally different, but unless the cap/rake structure drastically changed, I don't think your winrate will anywhere near halve.

280 hours is nothing. NOTHING.

To get a real idea of the long run, go back to 2010 in this thread.
Look at all the "regs" that posted regularly.
Look at the update rate of pg&cs.

They usually go something like this:

-----------------------------

1/01/16
"Sup guys my names Ava I'm a cool hip 28 year old that grinds tinder and grinds poker here's my graph showing how great I am"

(Translation)
I'm actually 32 and live with my mom and have a small ****. I've run hotter than the sun at poker and think I am good.

1/05/16
Hey guys checking in I got 3 tinder hookups last night so pretty good but could be better on the poker front I've been slacking...need to up that volume!"

(Translation)
My mom set me up with her friend's unfortunate looking daughter with 2 kids. I haven't played much poker because it is a life draining game when attempting to play full time but I'm not ready to admit that yet.

1/05/16 - 1/31/16

*No updates for a month*

(Translation)
Running bad at poker and who would ever post that?

2/05/16

"Sup guys sorry I havent updated I've been really busy on the poker front I've been running really well here's a few sample hands showing how deep I think about poker"

(Translation)
I actually went on a small heater and now have the confidence to post an update since it's positive news. Most of these hands are huge spew but I've got a RIO subscription so I can regurgitate from those videos to make it sound like I'm thinking when in actuality I'm clicking buttons.

3/02/16

"Sup guys I got a sick job offer in R&D finance so the pro poker life will have to sit on the back burner for now thanks for sticking along for the ride!"

(Translation)
My mom's friend's daughter got me hired as a cashier at Best Buy and that actually produces income whereas my live poker career does not. Poker ****ing sucks and I realize that now but my ego won't let me share the truth with others even though they could benefit from me sharing my failure openly.

3/03/16 - present

*no further updates*


--------------------------------

The long run is really long bud, and there have been thousands before you that posted the exact same thoughts that have sworn off poker since.

My first 1500 hours I was clipping 60/hr at 2/5. My last 500 hours I have made approximately $3.50.

What keeps me going is what zippy posted above. This is passive income from a hobby and I honestly don't care if I'm at 5bb/hr or 12bb/hr bc unless I book 10K hours and at that point I'd find my win rate slightly intriguing but at the same time I'd just keep grinding bc that all this is. A grind.

Also I will never hit 10k hours bc I would have slit my wrists long before that milestone.

The level of play from 1/2 to 2/5 in my room is massively different. So massive it boggles my mind. YMMV.

what room do you play in?

This is great +1

I kinda refrained from starting a PG&C for this reason. Perhaps subconsciously I knew I was running good and it was unsustainable.

Went "pro" March 2016, doom switch hit, got a lesson in humility and the reality of poker math and variance etc. Been grinding out productive months since then but nowhere near my previous win rates (36/hr @ 1/2, 45/hr @ 1/3, 68/hr @ 2/5, 125/hr @ 5/10).

I never considered it a "career" change I just knew I wanted to leave my job and poker filled the time. That time is hopefully winding down as I close out a 6 month interview process and begin a new career in commercial real estate (and get back to playing bigger and for fun). Though technically I won't make a lick my first 6-12 months cuz CRE is an all-commission business with ~9 month sales cycles so I guess poker will still be my primary income for another year (and some stock market trading).