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Old 05-31-2017, 10:52 AM   #18876
homerdash
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
I just meant in regards to the breaks that Homer is taking while hopping from casino to casino.


yeah, those breaks are actually really good for me. Before MGM i would drive home and realize about 30 mins into the drive that i actually wanted to play longer, after analyzing the previous session

Plus no one has mentioned the real reason, ratholing because i'm poor ldo
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:04 AM   #18877
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
The weird thing is, when I take a break, I legit forget how to play poker. My sizing especially is just really, really bad when I take long breaks and I make bad folds and worse check/calls. But if I play like a consistent 100 hours in a month, the following month I'll be 100% A-game.

I know they say use it or lose it but it's just weird how bad I become after a few months off. Also, years ago when I was hardcore grinding, I was playing at a much higher level than I am now. I knew alot of tricks and thought about live poker at a much higher level than I do now.
I can relate, especially when I come back to playing 1/2 with $200 stacks.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:15 PM   #18878
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Originally Posted by homerdash View Post
Plus no one has mentioned the real reason, ratholing because i'm poor ldo
Can you effectively rathole by simply switching from a deepstack table to a shorterstack table at the same stakes? This is a big part of my strategy now (not ratholing, but the fact that I've recognized I'm simply *way* better in shortstacked games than deepstacked ones).

GcluelessratholingnoobG
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:43 PM   #18879
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Can you effectively rathole by simply switching from a deepstack table to a shorterstack table at the same stakes? This is a big part of my strategy now (not ratholing, but the fact that I've recognized I'm simply *way* better in shortstacked games than deepstacked ones).



GcluelessratholingnoobG


well part of it is moving up in stakes, easier to play 150bb appropriately in 1/3 if all of it exists from an original 100bb 1/2 buyin

the other part is my buyin becomes more valuable after the break compared to rushing into another game
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:12 PM   #18880
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Originally Posted by homerdash View Post
well part of it is moving up in stakes, easier to play 150bb appropriately in 1/3 if all of it exists from an original 100bb 1/2 buyin
Not sure I see the relevance of that?

My point is that if you're sitting on a 300bb stack at a table with lots of other 300bb stacks, you can simply effectively rathole 200bbs by moving to a table with mostly 100bb stacks (perhaps a newer table, depending on BI maximums), assuming when you move tables at the same stakes you have to take all your chips (I'm guessing rooms differ on this rule).

GcluelesseffectiveratholingnoobG
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:22 PM   #18881
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

In my experience, being in a really deep $1/3 and $2/5 game is actually not as great as it sounds. A lot of players get really tight when they are 200BB+ deep and are just looking for coolers. I honestly think a huge portion of my winrate comes from people who get short and get impatient and shove 50BB with AJ or top pair because they are tired of folding and that's the best hand they've seen in an hour.
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:26 PM   #18882
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by philfan05 View Post
In my experience, being in a really deep $1/3 and $2/5 game is actually not as great as it sounds. A lot of players get really tight when they are 200BB+ deep and are just looking for coolers. I honestly think a huge portion of my winrate comes from people who get short and get impatient and shove 50BB with AJ or top pair because they are tired of folding and that's the best hand they've seen in an hour.

Valid points for sure. Same for me, at least a decent chunk of my winrate comes from what youre describing.
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:34 PM   #18883
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Originally Posted by philfan05 View Post
In my experience, being in a really deep $1/3 and $2/5 game is actually not as great as it sounds. A lot of players get really tight when they are 200BB+ deep and are just looking for coolers. I honestly think a huge portion of my winrate comes from people who get short and get impatient and shove 50BB with AJ or top pair because they are tired of folding and that's the best hand they've seen in an hour.
This is my experience as well.

My guess is that really crushing players who have a real good understanding of deepstack can make deepstack play extremely profitable.

But for players like myself who flounder in deepstack, playing shorterstacked tables is the ~nuts as so many players just constantly make terribly loose calls and blow off a bunch of $$$ in ~$100 increments.

GimoG
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:00 PM   #18884
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

My experience in many Casino games is that deeper stacks usually cause most players to tighten up. Good regs and grinder type recreational mostly. Sometimes the scared money players just get up and leave.

The gambly fools that play like action junkie maniacs do *not* tend to tighten up when they're deep though. They'll continue to spew chips just like they do after re-loading for $100. Trouble is that they don't *stay* deep stacked for very long.


Home games are a different story, where the deeper stacks don't seem to slow the action anywhere near as much. Although it does often prompt the PLO discussion instead. Charity games (it's a Michigan thing) are a bit of a weird hybrid where it can go either way.
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:12 PM   #18885
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You guys aren't playing the same games I am. I regularly play a couple of games that regularly go 300BB, and it just gets fishier.

But these also allow rebuy up to the big stack...so I recognize that's a different demographic than playing a game where you grind it up from 100bb.
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:54 PM   #18886
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Originally Posted by Big Perm View Post
You guys aren't playing the same games I am. I regularly play a couple of games that regularly go 300BB, and it just gets fishier.

But these also allow rebuy up to the big stack...so I recognize that's a different demographic than playing a game where you grind it up from 100bb.
I agree, this is so game dependent. In my game which is uncapped 1/2 you definitely see people punt 300 BBs stack shockingly light, and sometimes correctly. I got it in pre flop with AA v. QQ and AQs (!) when I was about $1000 deep, AA had $500 and AQs had about $700. In a hand I posted a couple weeks ago I got A2 in v. 33 on a 345ssx flop when there were 4 callers of a $10 raise and V lead out $20, I raised to $60 and he just shoved. I got it all in with the nut straight for $1000 on the river in like a $50 pot when V misread his hand. Alternatively, when sitting $500 or more deep you actually have fold equity when nitty Vs have overpairs. In my game at least people are making all sorts of deepstack mistakes.
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:08 AM   #18887
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Can you effectively rathole by simply switching from a deepstack table to a shorterstack table at the same stakes? This is a big part of my strategy now (not ratholing, but the fact that I've recognized I'm simply *way* better in shortstacked games than deepstacked ones).

GcluelessratholingnoobG
Yes, you can actually. I found this out by accident playing at Showboat in AC in 2009 IIRC. I was about 1100 deep in 1/2 or 1/3, whatever the game was. My table broke and I was forced to move. Not by choice I ended up at a table with no stacks higher than 400 and found out that a room rule was if you were moving from a broken game you could only come in with as high a stack as was currently on the table. I had to leave my additional 700 off the table which is definitely not what I wanted, but if I were attempting a rathole it would be the ideal legal solution in that particular room.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:41 AM   #18888
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Originally Posted by philfan05 View Post
In my experience, being in a really deep $1/3 and $2/5 game is actually not as great as it sounds. A lot of players get really tight when they are 200BB+ deep and are just looking for coolers. I honestly think a huge portion of my winrate comes from people who get short and get impatient and shove 50BB with AJ or top pair because they are tired of folding and that's the best hand they've seen in an hour.
Contrary to my prior posts, I experienced this for the first time last night. The two biggest fish in my game both got very, very deep (well over $1,000 in 1/2). One of them actually played much tighter and much better than he does when short. The other continued to play their customary terrible game and would've donked it off at some point if he hadn't left.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:21 PM   #18889
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Originally Posted by Randinho View Post
Yes, you can actually. I found this out by accident playing at Showboat in AC in 2009 IIRC. I was about 1100 deep in 1/2 or 1/3, whatever the game was. My table broke and I was forced to move. Not by choice I ended up at a table with no stacks higher than 400 and found out that a room rule was if you were moving from a broken game you could only come in with as high a stack as was currently on the table. I had to leave my additional 700 off the table which is definitely not what I wanted, but if I were attempting a rathole it would be the ideal legal solution in that particular room.
Yeah, some rooms have rules like that, which makes it legal to literally rathole.

But even in rooms that don't have that rule (ex. in my room you must bring *all* your chips to another table of the same stake), you can still "effectively" rathole by simply moving to a table where all the stacks are way smaller than yours.

GcluelessratholingnoobG
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:37 PM   #18890
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Very swingy May results...Started crushing 1/2, had a few winning 2/5 sessions, then a major slump...

As I'm just getting back into regular play from a few years ago, I had a few questions...

For the $2/$5 players winning $25-$30+ hour over a large sample size...(rough guestimates are still helpful)

A) What % of sessions are winning?
B) What is your average buy-in (that is, including reloads)
C) How long is your average session?
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:45 PM   #18891
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Yeah, some rooms have rules like that, which makes it legal to literally rathole.

But even in rooms that don't have that rule (ex. in my room you must bring *all* your chips to another table of the same stake), you can still "effectively" rathole by simply moving to a table where all the stacks are way smaller than yours.

GcluelessratholingnoobG
my casino is (unfortunately) the exact opposite - can't bring more than table max when switching tables unless your are coming from a broken game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolltide122150 View Post

As I'm just getting back into regular play from a few years ago, I had a few questions...

For the $2/$5 players winning $25-$30+ hour over a large sample size...(rough guestimates are still helpful)

A) What % of sessions are winning?
B) What is your average buy-in (that is, including reloads)
C) How long is your average session?
Specifically 2/5 lifetime (stats are actually consistent across all stakes
though):

A) 56%
B) $1000
C) 5 hours
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:25 PM   #18892
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The higher the average session, the higher the percentage of sessions won is going to be. All of this of course is going to depend on how big of a winner you are.
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:56 PM   #18893
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolltide122150 View Post
Very swingy May results...Started crushing 1/2, had a few winning 2/5 sessions, then a major slump...

As I'm just getting back into regular play from a few years ago, I had a few questions...

For the $2/$5 players winning $25-$30+ hour over a large sample size...(rough guestimates are still helpful)

A) What % of sessions are winning?
B) What is your average buy-in (that is, including reloads)
C) How long is your average session?
1) 73%
2) Not sure what this means. If I buy for $500 today and buy for $500 twice tomorrow, do you mean my avg buy in is $750?
In any case, I guess I turned that off in my app cuz I dont see it.
3) 4 hrs and 9 mins
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Old 06-01-2017, 03:02 PM   #18894
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolltide122150 View Post
As I'm just getting back into regular play from a few years ago, I had a few questions...

For the $2/$5 players winning $25-$30+ hour over a large sample size...(rough guestimates are still helpful)

A) What % of sessions are winning?
B) What is your average buy-in (that is, including reloads)
C) How long is your average session?
60% winning
1096 avg buyin
5 hours, 9 minutes
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Old 06-01-2017, 04:24 PM   #18895
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

That's funny seeing the avg time. I thought my 5 hr avg session was super low. 62% Wins
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:31 PM   #18896
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1/3 NL, 431 sessions, average ~8 hours / session, 65.9% session winrate, 100bb BI

GwhateverG
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:35 PM   #18897
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

326 sessions (1600 hrs) of 1/3 at my main casino (basically all I play)
9.1 BB/ hr
Win % = 66%
Avg length 4h 56m
How much am I usually in for? I dunno, I buy in full and top up a lot.

I dunno if this makes a difference for your question, but I haven't played premium hours (Thu-Sun evenings) for about a year. Most of my time comes from weekday mornings and some weekday evenings/ late-nights.

Last edited by nicname; 06-01-2017 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:47 PM   #18898
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What's the benefit to tracking your buyin? I've never done it, only profit/loss. I guess it tells you if it's a good idea for you to keep playing when you are stuck mountains or not?
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:26 PM   #18899
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Sample's still a bit small since I started logging...
For 2/5 only - 34 winning, 17 losing (67%). 7 hour 5 min avg. ~$1400 BI including reloads (I often top off a few hundred when I'm down; I seem to start too many sessions in the hole, but nonetheless end with a winning session).
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:15 PM   #18900
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
What's the benefit to tracking your buyin? I've never done it, only profit/loss. I guess it tells you if it's a good idea for you to keep playing when you are stuck mountains or not?
I think it has slightly more merit than session win % which I find pretty meaningless imo.

I bet if I track every 3 buy in session I'll see every 3 buy in loss. Lol
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