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Old 05-11-2017, 11:40 PM   #18701
callipygian
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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In reality there isn't such thing as a poker roll. If life calls your poker roll will be used no matter what.
For many people that's not true and the main concern is life roll money moving to poker roll money.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:46 AM   #18702
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I've never had to separate them, but I've also been very fortunate to be in a position with minimal expenses so my circumstances differ from most.

I think it makes a lot of sense to keep it separate for most people's circumstances -- having a 100k net worth means nothing wrt poker you can actually only afford to lose 20k
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:08 PM   #18703
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Some former grinder I met at a bar said that my win rate is gonna SKYROCKET when the WSOP comes around. I'm assuming he's exaggerating a little but if I'm a $15/hr winner at 1/2 or a $20/hr winner at 1/3 how much can I expect my win rate to go up realistically?
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:20 PM   #18704
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Pretty subtle troll job. I'll give it a 6.5/10.
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:05 PM   #18705
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by LordRiverRat View Post
Some former grinder I met at a bar said that my win rate is gonna SKYROCKET when the WSOP comes around. I'm assuming he's exaggerating a little but if I'm a $15/hr winner at 1/2 or a $20/hr winner at 1/3 how much can I expect my win rate to go up realistically?
I would say something like 2-3 times your normal winrate.
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Old 05-13-2017, 06:05 AM   #18706
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I guess if I'm able to beat 2/5 for anything less than 10bb/hr during WSOP I shouldn't count on being more than a marginal winner at 2/5 outside of WSOP.
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:11 AM   #18707
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Thinking of testing the waters during the WSOP and potentially staying in Vegas. What kind of bankroll do you guys recommend for Vegas to grind low-limit live no limit hold'em? Also, feel free to hit me up with a PM.
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:38 AM   #18708
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by leavesofliberty View Post
Thinking of testing the waters during the WSOP and potentially staying in Vegas. What kind of bankroll do you guys recommend for Vegas to grind low-limit live no limit hold'em? Also, feel free to hit me up with a PM.

Its a boring answer, but it all depends Last WSOP i was there couple of weeks, grinding mostly cash but fired some tourney shots also in the 200$-300$ area. Had like a 3000$ roll with me on that trip. I just grinded cash primarily, then fired tourney shots with my winnings to absorb tourney swings.

This year both me and my bankroll have evolved alot, so gonna be bigger roll dedicated to this years WSOP.

What stakes do you play and how experienced are you in the live games environment?
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:56 AM   #18709
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Its a boring answer, but it all depends Last WSOP i was there couple of weeks, grinding mostly cash but fired some tourney shots also in the 200$-300$ area. Had like a 3000$ roll with me on that trip. I just grinded cash primarily, then fired tourney shots with my winnings to absorb tourney swings.

This year both me and my bankroll have evolved alot, so gonna be bigger roll dedicated to this years WSOP.

What stakes do you play and how experienced are you in the live games environment?
I am an experienced mid-stakes LIMIT player from the MW. I play 20/40. I have a sizeable roll, and have played in Vegas before though I quit after about a month after realizing I was just meeting expenses. I figure years later I am more able to adjust to no limit, and it being the WSOP, it's a good time to spend a hunk on hotel money (<$50 per night + $20 on uber), grind, and see how well I do. I would post in the limit-->no limit thread except it's basically dead. I'm thinking there's going to be lots of action at the Rio, Bellagio, and Venetian. And if I do well, I could potentially play $2/$5 and gamboool during the WSOP without risking too much of my roll.
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:08 AM   #18710
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Originally Posted by leavesofliberty View Post
I am an experienced mid-stakes LIMIT player from the MW. I play 20/40. I have a sizeable roll, and have played in Vegas before though I quit after about a month after realizing I was just meeting expenses. I figure years later I am more able to adjust to no limit, and it being the WSOP, it's a good time to spend a hunk on hotel money (<$50 per night + $20 on uber), grind, and see how well I do. I would post in the limit-->no limit thread except it's basically dead. I'm thinking there's going to be lots of action at the Rio, Bellagio, and Venetian. And if I do well, I could potentially play $2/$5 and gamboool during the WSOP without risking too much of my roll.
Yeah for sure good action, and alot of juicy games all over the strip. Planet Hollywood and Harrahs had some insane fishy games last summer, 1-2 games but they played vey deep with some big whales dusting off money.

Bellagio is also packed during series, Venetian was little bit up and down actually regarding amount of tables/action. Aria is packed- many nights last year the waitlist for 1-3 was like 40 players, 2-5 also big waitlists in prime time. RIO games can be very good, especially during the nigthtime with drinking,straddling and people looking to gambool it up.
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:08 AM   #18711
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A 2/5 player that I play with a lot (and I consider him to be very very good) told me he made $30K last year playing 2/5 for about a month during the WSOP. I dont know how many hours he played but even if he somehow played 200 hours in that month, that's still $150/hr.

I expect that like most people he probably exaggerated the total so lets say he really made $26000. That's still $130/hr.

Ive played with him enough to estimate that hes a $45/hr winner under normal conditions, so clearly there's a lot of money to be won during WSOP. I'll be going next year. I have some conflicts and cant make it this year.
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:16 AM   #18712
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Games are good and plentiful during WSOP, though no softer than MW NL games, IME. Midwest is still more loose/passive than anywhere else I've played. Florida and Cali are looser, but more aggro, and Vegas and the NE (except the new casinos) are more nitty, in my limited experience.

Unless you live in Colorado or Minnesota (where the local laws make NL impossible and the SL is weird), I'd make the switch to NL locally. It takes a while to get used to being able to manipulate pot-odds, and your Vs being able to manipulate yours (though many Vs are very bad at this). Implied odds go way up, so you can play a lot of more speculative hands, but with the big bets, you have to fold more post-flop. Position is even more important, imo.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:17 AM   #18713
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
A 2/5 player that I play with a lot (and I consider him to be very very good) told me he made $30K last year playing 2/5 for about a month during the WSOP. I dont know how many hours he played but even if he somehow played 200 hours in that month, that's still $150/hr.

I expect that like most people he probably exaggerated the total so lets say he really made $26000. That's still $130/hr.

Ive played with him enough to estimate that hes a $45/hr winner under normal conditions, so clearly there's a lot of money to be won during WSOP. I'll be going next year. I have some conflicts and cant make it this year.
Or he just ran extremely hot for 100-200 hours?
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:30 AM   #18714
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Or he just ran extremely hot for 100-200 hours?
Im sure he ran hot, but I dont think anyone will deny that the games are softer in Vegas during WSOP than most any place else during any other time. I have a couple other friends who went last year and are going again this year and the stores of megadonks are all the same.

How much softer and how much more profitable is it than whatever your regular game is? I dont know because I havent played there during WSOP.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:44 AM   #18715
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Im sure he ran hot, but I dont think anyone will deny that the games are softer in Vegas during WSOP than most any place else during any other time. I have a couple other friends who went last year and are going again this year and the stores of megadonks are all the same.

How much softer and how much more profitable is it than whatever your regular game is? I dont know because I havent played there during WSOP.

My view is that the guy for sure ran really hot, no doubt about that. But even so, its my opinion if you are good at game selecting especially, and hopping around from casino to casino and manage to find very good games consistantly- i dont think 30 K for a dedicated 1 month grinding at 2/5 sounds crazy at all. Especially if he buys in deep every game and the table plays deep.

My friend grinded 1-2 and 1-3 for 2 weeks last year during WSOP, and easily won 5000$ without any crazy volume. Some decent run good+ having an ability to put yourself in the highest value games around town and alot of the job is done. IMO donks and whales from all around the world is flying in to Vegas during WSOP to play (donate).
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:22 PM   #18716
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Midwest LLSNL games are on average going to be far softer than WSOP cash games (on the strip at least) and it's not even close. Anecdotes about some dude that had a big score mean absolutely nothing. I have a ton of such anecdotes in games here too. My buddy just made $22k in one session of 5/T. What does that mean for you? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

If you are from the Midwest and are thinking of coming to town during the WSOP, there are many great reasons to do so such as the experience, the atmosphere, for fun, a change of pace,to play tourneys, to play SNGs etc. However, expecting to make more money grinding low stakes cash should not be one of them, particularly when you take into consideration expenses. Also, it should be noted that many of the best players from local card rooms go to Vegas for the WSOP which can make the ridiculously soft games back home even softer than normal.
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:03 PM   #18717
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Midwest LLSNL games are on average going to be far softer than WSOP cash games (on the strip at least) and it's not even close. Anecdotes about some dude that had a big score mean absolutely nothing. I have a ton of such anecdotes in games here too. My buddy just made $22k in one session of 5/T. What does that mean for you? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

If you are from the Midwest and are thinking of coming to town during the WSOP, there are many great reasons to do so such as the experience, the atmosphere, for fun, a change of pace,to play tourneys, to play SNGs etc. However, expecting to make more money grinding low stakes cash should not be one of them, particularly when you take into consideration expenses. Also, it should be noted that many of the best players from local card rooms go to Vegas for the WSOP which can make the ridiculously soft games back home even softer than normal.
Yep this is about right. Go for the "experience," for a vacation, or to gamble on some MTT lotteries, those are all justifiable reasons to go. But when you factor in traveling, hotel expenses, crazy waitlists, ubers etc there is no way you can justify going to Vegas make more money playing 1/2 than you can at home lol.

IMO, the only way going to the WSOP to "make money" makes any real sense is if you are a high stakes cash player and are following the big games, or are a mid-stakes plus tourney grinder or something imo.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:02 PM   #18718
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
Midwest LLSNL games are on average going to be far softer than WSOP cash games (on the strip at least) and it's not even close. Anecdotes about some dude that had a big score mean absolutely nothing. I have a ton of such anecdotes in games here too. My buddy just made $22k in one session of 5/T. What does that mean for you? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

If you are from the Midwest and are thinking of coming to town during the WSOP, there are many great reasons to do so such as the experience, the atmosphere, for fun, a change of pace,to play tourneys, to play SNGs etc. However, expecting to make more money grinding low stakes cash should not be one of them, particularly when you take into consideration expenses. Also, it should be noted that many of the best players from local card rooms go to Vegas for the WSOP which can make the ridiculously soft games back home even softer than normal.
This was definitely my experience last summer. Going on a good heater was a likely tag-team partner, but my results and the general table population were definitely affected.

And I already play in a gold mine of a low stakes room as some ITT can attest to.

Side note: I'm not even very good.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:15 PM   #18719
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I've been saying for a while that Midwest games are the best in the country in average. I've played a bit on the east coast and in Vegas. Neither compares to the drool fests I experience in SE Michigan on most nights. I think it would be interesting to know how much that would affect my win rate. I'm probably just break even on either coast.
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:38 PM   #18720
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For the same price of the vacation, I can live in an apartment near a no-limit casino for at least 4 months. Assuming I am not dreadful at no-limit and know when to fold, I should do well, planning on skipping Vegas vacation fwiw. The only real reason to go is to test my no-limit calibre before re-locating. I think I should be fine.
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Old 05-13-2017, 07:38 PM   #18721
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Where are these crazy good midwest games, exactly? Horseshoe Hammond? Other places?
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Old 05-13-2017, 07:43 PM   #18722
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All over. I've personally played 2008-style poker in Kansas, Missouri, Michigan, Iowa, and Wisconsin that I can think of off the top of my head.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:42 PM   #18723
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Let me know when you're in Michigan. I'll arrange a baseball bat party.
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Old 05-14-2017, 12:00 AM   #18724
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Where are these crazy good midwest games, exactly? Horseshoe Hammond? Other places?
I've played in very passive games at the Horseshoe Hammond, just a weekend break from the limit grind, and found it very easy. 30 tables going all the time.

Vegas I found to be potentially tough on weekdays, did a lot of table hopping from casino to casino.
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Old 05-14-2017, 08:44 AM   #18725
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I'm always pretty skeptical of people claiming games to be amazing.

If they were so amazing, why are you telling people about them? Sounds pretty stupid imo
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